Defence!!! Will King play at least 20 games next season??????

[dvdhopeful]

I personally would be happy with Dawson and Woodgate, but having said that I'm not convinced that that is a top four central pairing. Woodgate speaks for himself and would fit into any top four side. Dawson concerns me, but I completely agree with Joey. There have been times this season when for me, Daws has outshined Woodgate and he has been everywhere, making tackles and numerous interceptions and clearances. He is more than capable, however the one place I slightly disagree with Joey on is the fact that when he makes a mistake it's simply because of the position he plays he and therefore it's going to be more noticeable.

There have been times this season when the errors Daws has made have simply been one of those things. You aren't going to be foot perfect everytime, it's just not possible, especially in an error of the pitch, when more often than not, an error will lead to a chance on goal. But I still believe Daws is prone to making errors because he switches off, resulting in his man getting free or not being aware of danger. You can argue again, it's just something that happens to all, but with Daws, at times, he seems to happen more than most and more glaringly than most.

Again, as Joey pointed out, Daws was half of a CB pairing that nearly got us to fourth, with Ledders. I think Woodgate can do the same for him in terms of leadership and guidance, but in practical terms, I do worry that neither have Ledders speed and think at times they will be caught out.

I hope King is fit, it would be the signing of the summer of me, as I dont think anyone we bring in will be as potentially influential as he.

 

[joey55]

Hi dvd,

I didn't mean to suggest Daws didn't make errors that weren't just one of those things. He certainly makes stupid errors, but that i think these errors have been exaggerated and have dramatically decreased since he'd been playing with Woody. Take John Terry, for example, in his last 5 games (i'm not going back further than that as it takes too long to check each games stats) he's had to make 31 clearances, whilst in the same 5 games period Dawson has had to make 53. These shows that Dawson is dealing with 70% more than Terry and it's inevitable he'll therefore make more mistakes. When you add to that, that Daws played much of the early part of the season surrounded by clowns he was trying to organise, you can see why it's a difficult job for him. When he's next to a leader and other competent defenders, then he can get on with his job. The mistakes are far less, though when they happen, as they will with all defenders, they get noticed so much more, because of this current stream of thought that Dawson is total shit. Everytime we concede a goal that has anything to do with Dawson, which given he plays just infront of the goal, will happen quite often, you can be sure there will be many posters saying "i told you so" and converting more people to the Dawson is shit idea. But, perhaps if they actually watched other teams, they'd see equally often their CBs are the player at "fault" for the goal. I bet his current (since he's been playing with woody) error ratio is no worse than most Prem CBs, yet because of all the attention he recieved previously, every mistake he makes now is seen as further proof of his shitness. We could do better at CB, but I suspect Ramos will think we could do a lot worse and look to strengthen other areas of the squad (obviously if Kaboul leaves this will change).

 

[DC_Boy]

Some interesting points on our recruitment, and I think joey nailed it when he briefly referred to the fact that since Ramos has been here our recruitment has been good. DC, both your reliable defenders (mine too for that matter) are bought since Ramos has come.

Which suggests that this summer should be a much more positive one than last.

Hi Bill - fair points and here's hoping

Joey I take on board what you say - and really hope Daws does the biz next season - but in games like the Bolton one where (from memory) Daws does one of his cross field specials to a Bolton player and then ain't too clever on the resulting cross that leads to the goal - you see why some people get **** off -

during that game Bolton hardly offered a threat yet walked off with an invaluable point and cost us two - cos of some slip shod defending not helped by the Hutton fiasco at the start of the half - it's really not good enough that kind of stuff (specially as I wanted Bolton relegated

and yes the mid and attack were guilty big-time in that game too - but it's mainly defence we're talking here

 

[joey55]

Leds is a fantastic defender, but go through the games he played this season and then work out a mistakes ratio and compare it to Dawsons.

 

[dvdhopeful]

Looking at the stats is important to assertain how much Daws is having to deal with compared to other defenders. I think the Terry example is a very salient point, as once again it comes back the midfield, which I think is the key to the entire argument. It's natural that if you are having to deal with more crosses/passes, the law of averages says that sooner or later you are going to fail. Seems pretty straight forward to me that having Makelele/Mikel/Essien in front of Terry/Carvalho, they are going to stop opposition attacks from getting that far. Where as for Daws, he isn't going to have as dependable a protective barrier and is going to have to deal with far more.

I haven't been of the opinion that Daws form has particularly dipped since 05/06, just coincided with King's injury and the departure of Carrick. If a DM is brought in who can supply support not only for Daws, but for the defence as a hole and if the responsibility is back on Woodgate or King, when they play alongside Daws, I have no problem whatsoever with him being the third choice CB.

If King isn't going to be able to play a full time role in the side, then I would personally hope that Ramos will be looking to bring in CB like Woodgate, so that we have two Grade A defenders, rather than a Grade A (Woodgate) and a Grade B+ (Daws), if you see what I mean?

After a summer of strengthening, we should be fighting on four fronts next year, I think Daws could be vital to our progress.

 

[hellava_tough]

According to The Goat, Ledley should be fit and raring to go next season:

http://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=31114

Does this clear things up :shrug:

 

[DC_Boy]

According to The Goat, Ledley should be fit and raring to go next season:

http://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=31114

Does this clear things up :shrug:

Hi HT - yes I read that at the time and no it doesn't clear anything up

in fact if it's true (and I assume it is) that Leds has had/has to have another op - it justs makes me more uncertain not less

if he's up and running and playing fine by the first week of Aug - great - am I counting on it - no way

 

[tRiKS]

We'll see how confident Ramos is on Ledley by his choice of CB purchase in the summer window. if he tries or suceesec to get a proven international even CL class defender it'll seem an odd one if he really thought King would be back and ready to start the first game in August.

 

[DC_Boy]

We'll see how confident Ramos is on Ledley by his choice of CB purchase in the summer window. if he tries or suceesec to get a proven international even CL class defender it'll seem an odd one if he really thought King would be back and ready to start the first game in August.

good point Triks

last year as far as I and many others are concerned we **** up big time by not getting in an experienced CB, seemingly thinking King would be Ok. Can't see JR making the same mistake - so no purchase shpuld signal confidence in Leds

then again - even the best make mistakes ........

 

[hellava_tough]

good point Triks

last year as far as I and many others are concerned we **** up big time by not getting in an experienced CB, seemingly thinking King would be Ok. Can't see JR making the same mistake - so no purchase shpuld signal confidence in Leds

then again - even the best make mistakes ........

Not so sure DC.

Every top team needs 3 quality CB's. Ramos doesn't rate Dawson (Zokora was picked in front of Daws) and Kaboul is on his way out.

Therefore, I'd expect another top CB signing this summer.

However, if we spend big and sign 2 more CB's then I'd start questioning Led's fitness.

 

[DC_Boy]

Not so sure DC.

Every top team needs 3 quality CB's. Ramos doesn't rate Dawson (Zokora was picked in front of Daws) and Kaboul is on his way out.

Therefore, I'd expect another top CB signing this summer.

However, if we spend big and sign 2 more CB's then I'd start questioning Led's fitness.

Hi HT - I actually agree with you and have been posting again and again we need a new CB - but I keep getting told by various people, including highly knowledgeable people like Dan Ashcroft that we're sorted for CBs (assuming Kaboul stays) -

so don't know what to believe - but as you can gather I'm uneasy about the situ - whereas a lot of people seem to be ok with it