Dele Alli at Everton

[coy-spurs1882]

Come on that's complete apples and orange's though. They were both brought in for peanuts as a low-risk gamble. If it'd worked out we'd have been laughing but if it didn't (as proved to be the case) we barely spent any money on them (in PL terms anyway) so it was no skin off our nose.

Grealish on the other hand, wasn't it 50m that Villa originally wanted back when they were in the Championship. Back then he was still relatively unproven and a player who had shown some promise in the PL but a lot of immaturity, who was now doing well in the second division. It was a high cost and high risk move. Completely incomparible to taking a punt on a couple of French players for less then 10m

i am referring those playing well in championship, like maddison in coventry, brooks in sheffield, lewis cook in leeds, eze in qpr etc. we should be able to sign these players at a fairly low price before their move to a PL club. for grealish it was a big f**k up by DL as we could have done the business before the capital injection to villa

 

['O Zio]

i am referring those playing well in championship, like maddison in coventry, brooks in sheffield, lewis cook in leeds, eze in qpr etc. we should be able to sign these players at a fairly low price before their move to a PL club. for grealish it was a big f**k up by DL as we could have done the business before the capital injection to villa

You're using too much hindsight though. For every grealish or Madison there are 50 who never amount to much at all. It's easy to sit here now and say passing on grealish was a fuck up but like I say at the time they wanted stupid money for a guy who was unproven and had a track record for being unprofessional and immature off and on the field. The fact that he was doing well in the championship with a team that was build around him isn't enough to outweigh all those other factors.

Yeah in hindsight it looks like it would've been a good deal but that's just life. If you throw 50m at players like he was at the time left right and centre that's a sure fire way to end up like a Sunderland or Leeds of a few years ago going bankrupt. You win some you lose some, but there are far more losses than wins when it comes to the transfer market, you've just got to try and limit your losses to small mistakes rather than big ones. Just the nature of any highly volatile and high risk market like that

 

[coy-spurs1882]

You're using too much hindsight though. For every grealish or Madison there are 50 who never amount to much at all. It's easy to sit here now and say passing on grealish was a fuck up but like I say at the time they wanted stupid money for a guy who was unproven and had a track record for being unprofessional and immature off and on the field. The fact that he was doing well in the championship with a team that was build around him isn't enough to outweigh all those other factors.

Yeah in hindsight it looks like it would've been a good deal but that's just life. If you throw 50m at players like he was at the time left right and centre that's a sure fire way to end up like a Sunderland or Leeds of a few years ago going bankrupt. You win some you lose some, but there are far more losses than wins when it comes to the transfer market, you've just got to try and limit your losses to small mistakes rather than big ones. Just the nature of any highly volatile and high risk market like that

no one said we should throw silly money to sign the unproven players. surely maddison, brooks, eze, godfrey, lewis etc didn't cost that much for their transfer to their current club? even maguire who costed yanited 70m joined leicester for around 12m only

 

[spursfan77]

I think the meeting between levy and Mourinho when they were discussing him in the Amazon documentary was quite telling. Plus what was probably said off camera. They know what they’ve got with him and he is proving to be quite the problem when not producing.

 

['O Zio]

no one said we should throw silly money to sign the unproven players. surely maddison, brooks, eze, godfrey, lewis etc didn't cost that much for their transfer to their current club? even maguire who costed yanited 70m joined leicester for around 12m only

That's massively oversimplifying it though. At the time when these players joined championship clubs or bottom half PL teams, they were likely not good enough for our first team and are unlikely to have developed into the players that they've since become if they'd been sitting in our academy for all this time. There's also no guarantee that they'd have agreed to come to play for our U23 side when they have an offer on the table to play regularly at a proper club.

On top of that you've got to factor in that the price that e.g. Norwich ended up paying for him when they were in the championship is unlikely to be the price that we'd have been quoted for him. The minute a rich PL club starts sniffing around the price will inevitably go up Vs when it's a fellow lower league club making an enquiry.

In short, you can't just cross out the name of the buying club and put us there instead and assume that everything else says the same. That's just not how life works

 

[mr ashley]

no one said we should throw silly money to sign the unproven players. surely maddison, brooks, eze, godfrey, lewis etc didn't cost that much for their transfer to their current club? even maguire who costed yanited 70m joined leicester for around 12m only

These are all the massive gambles that have paid off.
And not really signings made by teams challenging for CL.
The top clubs don’t make these moves as often because they can’t afford for them to fail, because if they do, we don’t qualify.
Robertson to Liverpool from hull is probably the only example of a signing that went straight into the first team and improved the side.
Who did United/city/Chelsea sign from the championship?

 

[mr ashley]

That's massively oversimplifying it though. At the time when these players joined championship clubs or bottom half PL teams, they were likely not good enough for our first team and are unlikely to have developed into the players that they've since become if they'd been sitting in our academy for all this time. There's also no guarantee that they'd have agreed to come to play for our U23 side when they have an offer on the table to play regularly at a proper club.

On top of that you've got to factor in that the price that e.g. Norwich ended up paying for him when they were in the championship is unlikely to be the price that we'd have been quoted for him. The minute a rich PL club starts sniffing around the price will inevitably go up Vs when it's a fellow lower league club making an enquiry.

In short, you can't just cross out the name of the buying club and put us there instead and assume that everything else says the same. That's just not how life works

At the moment in European football, it’s really only Dortmund and Leicester who are getting their recruitment spot on.
Everyone else has hits and misses or pass on talent that in hindsight they wish they signed

 

[dtxspurs]

You're using too much hindsight though. For every grealish or Madison there are 50 who never amount to much at all. It's easy to sit here now and say passing on grealish was a fuck up but like I say at the time they wanted stupid money for a guy who was unproven and had a track record for being unprofessional and immature off and on the field. The fact that he was doing well in the championship with a team that was build around him isn't enough to outweigh all those other factors.

Yeah in hindsight it looks like it would've been a good deal but that's just life. If you throw 50m at players like he was at the time left right and centre that's a sure fire way to end up like a Sunderland or Leeds of a few years ago going bankrupt. You win some you lose some, but there are far more losses than wins when it comes to the transfer market, you've just got to try and limit your losses to small mistakes rather than big ones. Just the nature of any highly volatile and high risk market like that

Please name the 50 that haven't worked out who were the top young talents in the championship. There's a pretty specific thing we're talking about here. I don't see why that's so complicated & its a low risk proposition. Do you think it will be easier for us to off load Clarke eventually or it was for Nkoudou? Rodon or Sanchez?

 

[coy-spurs1882]

These are all the massive gambles that have paid off.
And not really signings made by teams challenging for CL.
The top clubs don’t make these moves as often because they can’t afford for them to fail, because if they do, we don’t qualify.
Robertson to Liverpool from hull is probably the only example of a signing that went straight into the first team and improved the side.
Who did United/city/Chelsea sign from the championship?

who said we should only sign players from championship? also those 3 clubs you mentioned have unlimited funds to sign anyone they want. we don't.

 

[mr ashley]

who said we should only sign players from championship? also those 3 clubs you mentioned have unlimited funds to sign anyone they want. we don't.

All the players you mentioned were championship players. That’s kind of the point you were making wasn’t it?
‘Why aren’t we signing these players beforehand?”

I think there’s probably two approaches to signing younger unproven talent when you’re a CL team
1- sign the talent , then loan them out.
2. - let them sign for a bottom half PL team, and sign them when they prove themselves.

Obviously route 2 costs more for the individual player, but costs less than taking on the risk of a 3 year contract for a player who might not make it.

As a club, we’re working hard to make the step to compete financially with United/city/Chelsea.
We can only do that with smart recruitment.

Not sure you could say Chelsea or United are getting value for money out of their big money signings.

 

[Alex4487]

Levy knows mourinho wont last so dele has to just wait it out from mourinhos tyranny. Alex fergurson said to mou to sign ali and look now how he treats him. He thinks he knows better than one of the greatest managers ever. Lol dele needs to tell mou fuck you mr levy is on my side

 

[Blueluigi6]

Levy knows mourinho wont last so dele has to just wait it out from mourinhos tyranny. Alex fergurson said to mou to sign ali and look now how he treats him. He thinks he knows better than one of the greatest managers ever. Lol dele needs to tell mou fuck you mr levy is on my side

Dangerous precedent to want levy siding with a player over the manager

 

[ardiles&villa]

At the moment in European football, it’s really only Dortmund and Leicester who are getting their recruitment spot on.
Everyone else has hits and misses or pass on talent that in hindsight they wish they signed

Bayern Munich

 

[Rosco1984]

Levy knows mourinho wont last so dele has to just wait it out from mourinhos tyranny. Alex fergurson said to mou to sign ali and look now how he treats him. He thinks he knows better than one of the greatest managers ever. Lol dele needs to tell mou fuck you mr levy is on my side

Mourinho when he came in did everything he could to get Dele going in fact he built the whole team around him... Dele had so many opportunities and he did it for the first couple of matches then went back to being complacent. There is absolutely no victimisation of Dele or miss use by Mourinho he gave him every chance but he obviously hasn't responded this year. If you honestly think its not possible to change Mourinhos mind while we are watching Ndombele start every game and get nothing but praise from him I don't know what you are watching.

 

[mr ashley]

Bayern Munich

Yeah but I’m really trying to avoid including the ‘pot 1” teams in this because they’ve got the money already.

 

[Montalbano]

It’s all been downhill for him since his FA sentence last year & the COVID-19 restart where he was suspended for the first game back (United).

He nearly played in every match under Mourinho prior.

 

[coy-spurs1882]

All the players you mentioned were championship players. That’s kind of the point you were making wasn’t it?
‘Why aren’t we signing these players beforehand?”

I think there’s probably two approaches to signing younger unproven talent when you’re a CL team
1- sign the talent , then loan them out.
2. - let them sign for a bottom half PL team, and sign them when they prove themselves.

Obviously route 2 costs more for the individual player, but costs less than taking on the risk of a 3 year contract for a player who might not make it.

As a club, we’re working hard to make the step to compete financially with United/city/Chelsea.
We can only do that with smart recruitment.

Not sure you could say Chelsea or United are getting value for money out of their big money signings.

"All the players you mentioned were championship players. That’s kind of the point you were making wasn’t it?"
no, the point is to refute the argument that the cost to replace dele is high in HG perspective. i want to point out that the cost is not that high if we sign the HG standouts and talents 3-4 years in advance before they moving to a PL club.

 

[mr ashley]

"All the players you mentioned were championship players. That’s kind of the point you were making wasn’t it?"
no, the point is to refute the argument that the cost to replace dele is high in HG perspective. i want to point out that the cost is not that high if we sign the HG standouts and talents 3-4 years in advance before they moving to a PL club.

Ok gotcha

I take your point. We can sign/could have signed some of the standout players in the lower leagues (much like we did with dele) at relatively low cost , that is true.
Of course there will be a CL team price premium but that’s just market forces so nothing we can do about it.
What we lack (esp under poch) is a clear development plan for these players.
Chelsea and city seem to have it best, with players like mason mount/ tomori and jack harrison getting consistent minutes at a lower team.
Let’s take Michael Olise as an example. If we sign him, we need a clear plan for him to continue his development because if we don’t, he will just stagnate as an unused sub (see KWP).

If we did have a development squad of sorts, we could use it to develop our younger, promising players.
Downsides would be:
Expensive (taking on a lot of financial risk - transfers/contracts)
Loans need to work out (see jack clarke)
Not the most attractive option to players (compared to joining a team such as palace -see Eze)

That said, we are doing something similar with some of our players already.
Sessegnon
Parrott
Skipp
Clarke
White
CCV
All out on loan now.
Hopefully Devine will be the next one, and Joseph too if the links are accurate.

Maybe it’s not so bad after all!

 

[McFlash]

Levy knows mourinho wont last so dele has to just wait it out from mourinhos tyranny. Alex fergurson said to mou to sign ali and look now how he treats him. He thinks he knows better than one of the greatest managers ever. Lol dele needs to tell mou fuck you mr levy is on my side

Oh my dear, where to start with this?!

I mean, apart from the fact that Jose IS one of the greatest managers of all time, you really want our chairman (who, while being a great business man actually knows fuck all about football) to start backing players over managers that he's appointed?

And maybe, just maybe Jose's opinion about Dele has changed once he's got to know the player and his mentality. So what if Fergie said to sign him, how long ago was that?

 

[Tucker]

Maybe Levy needs to sit down and have a chat with him about his school days like he did with Tanguy.