Demarai Gray

[DaSpurs]

Doumbia you say? Yes, I agree

I know right? Konoplyanka is sooo handsome and fast

 

[$hoguN]

Looks like an excellent prospect, so would be a great signing providing we get him cheap enough.

 

[CoopsieDeadpool]

I know right? Konoplyanka is sooo handsome and fast

Man we could add SOOOOOO MUCH pace to our side, with a not too significant outlay. Say around £15mil for Doumbia, what, £5mil or so for Konoplyanka? And apparently this lad, Demarai Gray is pretty rapid too? And would cost maybe another £5mil?

All dreams and pie in the sky stuff, but when adding up what we could get (in total) for the likes of Paulinho, Chiriches, Kaboul, Capoue, Holtby?, Carroll? = Surely enough to cover what that pace would cost to bring in?

 

[CoopsieDeadpool]

Excellent prospect would be a great signing.

You seen a fair bit of him then, mate?

Is it absurd to ask if you could compare him to anyone (whether potentially or as he stands right now) ?

 

[DaSpurs]

Man we could add SOOOOOO MUCH pace to our side, with a not too significant outlay. Say around £15mil for Doumbia, what, £5mil or so for Konoplyanka? And apparently this lad, Demarai Gray is pretty rapid too? And would cost maybe another £5mil?

All dreams and pie in the sky stuff, but when adding up what we could get (in total) for the likes of Paulinho, Chiriches, Kaboul, Capoue, Holtby?, Carroll? = Surely enough to cover what that pace would cost to bring in?

An immense movement of blood to my groin area occurred just reading about that much of an injection of pace into our side.

And yes, between the sales of Paulinho, Capoue, Holtby, and Chiriches alone I'm sure we could more than manage it.

 

[$hoguN]

You seen a fair bit of him then, mate?

Is it absurd to ask if you could compare him to anyone (whether potentially or as he stands right now) ?

I must confess that I am basing my assessment of him on a couple of matches and the fact a Brummie I work with reckons he will be a world beater. So no, probably best I don't draw too many comparisons as it will just make me look stupid in the long run, and we all know that I am, but lets not flaunt it.
Edited my previous post to reflect this

 

[IGSpur]

If he's truly as quick as Townsend, then that's what we need. Power is what I've picked up from what I've seen of him, but often at this level that means they often lack the tight space dribbling ability with their higher center of gravities and heavier legs.

With all due respect, we just cannot continue only adding players on whether they're quality or not. That's a major contributing factor to how we got into such a bloated and unbalanced squad as is, because we didn't consider compatibility, only quality and profit potential. I'm all for integrating Oduwa if he's capable, but as of this moment I wouldn't forego a very pacey option for him because pace and the will to have a go is the tenet most missing from our game at the moment in my opinion.

Ye I see what you're saying but I just don't think we need to spend 2 mil on a player just because he is slightly quicker than another, especially when they have the same potential. I haven't watched much other than the videos and when I briefly saw him against WBA. I didn't see anything that told me he would be World Class. It's like Redmond, Ince Townsend etc. I would much rather, if you do want that pace, bring in Kono for cheap than spend on this player. Like I said I believe if Oduwa was in Birmingham's academy he would also have been given a chance in their first team and he could be the player we are wishing to buy.

 

[DaSpurs]

Ye I see what you're saying but I just don't think we need to spend 2 mil on a player just because he is slightly quicker than another, especially when they have the same potential. I haven't watched much other than the videos and when I briefly saw him against WBA. I didn't see anything that told me he would be World Class. It's like Redmond, Ince Townsend etc. I would much rather, if you do want that pace, bring in Kono for cheap than spend on this player. Like I said I believe if Oduwa was in Birmingham's academy he would also have been given a chance in their first team and he could be the player we are wishing to buy.

Fair enough, on that I'll have to take your word. I've no idea of where I would classify each in terms of potential, but if they are even remotely similar, your point is certainly valid and I would agree with it. However, if we are genuinely interested while Oduwa has yet to see the bench for us, the argument could be made that the coaching/scouting/Mitchell staff view Gray as having higher potential.

I agree though that if we are targeting pace for the first team, an older player such as Kono would be more ideal. Not only would such a player provide more experience for the first team, but he'd also more importantly be less of a block to the youth. As I'm sure you were already factoring into your stance, an 18 year old signing would be about as inhibitory as they get to an 18 year old Oduwa.

 

[IGSpur]

Fair enough, on that I'll have to take your word. I've no idea of where I would classify each in terms of potential, but if they are even remotely similar, your point is certainly valid and I would agree with it. However, if we are genuinely interested while Oduwa has yet to see the bench for us, the argument could be made that the coaching/scouting/Mitchell staff view Gray as having higher potential.

I agree though that if we are targeting pace for the first team, an older player such as Kono would be more ideal. Not only would such a player provide more experience for the first team, but he'd also more importantly be less of a block to the youth. As I'm sure you were already factoring into your stance, an 18 year old signing would be about as inhibitory as they get to an 18 year old Oduwa.

Don't get me wrong like I said I haven't really seen Gray bar what has been made available but he just seems like a typical English winger coming through in the mould of those above. I haven't seen any distinctive star quality. People compare him to Sterling but I remember Sterling was destroying and by far and away Liverpools most outstanding player at u21s he was dangerous. That was as a 17yo and he was then playing in the Prem and looking like he belonged. If Gray was that level then fair but I don't see it.

Id say a good analogy for the situation I'm talking about would be Izzy Brown who made the bench for WBA when he was 16. If he stayed at WBA I'd have no doubt that he would have probably appeared for them within the year and would be a 17yo hyped up 2/3m rated winger. As it was he was bought by Chelsea and while his ability has improved training with their players, he isn't going to appear for them anytime soon if at all. He played Eng u17s last year Oduwa was u18s and they are both playing for their clubs u21s and you prbably know ours are just as good as theirs. At the time he was on the bench I'm sure most would have thought he'd be a great prospect and is significantly better than our youngsters, but in reality he his talented but on the same level as our top ones. I just think we should be wary of these things.

I am slightly concerned that Oduwa is seen as not being able to fit Poch's style of the play but the ability is there to work with. There are a few other players they haven't made the bench either so don't think it's a major concern for now.

But ye agree Kono is older and less inhibiting

 

[rossdapep]

Remember when we signed Routledge and Lennon for the future, only for Routledge to get injured and Lennon to become a mainstay who would cause fullbacks all sorts of problems? Yeah?! We need some of that!

 

[DaSpurs]

Don't get me wrong like I said I haven't really seen Gray bar what has been made available but he just seems like a typical English winger coming through in the mould of those above. I haven't seen any distinctive star quality. People compare him to Sterling but I remember Sterling was destroying by far and away Liverpools most outstanding player, and he was dangerous. That was as a 17yo and he was then playing in the Prem and looking like he belonged. If Gray was that level then fair but I don't see it.

Id say a good analogy for the situation I'm talking about would be Izzy Brown who made the bench for WBA when he was 16. If he stayed at WBA I'd have no doubt that he would have probably appeared for them within the year and would be a 17yo hyped up 2/3m rated winger. As it was he was bought by Chelsea and while his ability has improved training with their players, he isn't going to appear for them anytime soon if at all. He played Eng u17s last year Oduwa was u18s and they are both playing for their clubs u21s and you prbably know ours are just as good as theirs. At the time he was on the bench I'm sure most would have thought he'd be a great prospect and is significantly better than our youngsters, but in reality he his talented but on the same level as our top ones. I just think we should be wary of these things.

And ye Kono is older and less inhibiting to ours.

Good post and fair points. I favor signing an older player, but just as well if we do make the signing, I trust we've evaluated the system sufficiently and hope we've made the correct decision for the future. I will say though that I'm of the impression that with Brum's managerial change, Gray has featured a significant amount with their first team and playing in a 4-2-3-1.

 

[IGSpur]

I favor signing an older player, but just as well if we do make the signing, I trust we've evaluated the system sufficiently and hope we've made the correct decision for the future.

Agree. At the end of the day if he is signed it will be for a reason. If Mitchell and Poch have looked at our academy and still decided to sign him, especially after knowing he will give ours a chance if needs be, then I will say fair do's and that Oduwa or anyone else clearly wasn't suited to the system.

As at the end of the day the sum is greater than it's parts.

Have made some changes to the post you quoted. I can really butcher the English language when I'm not paying attention.

 

[kd2000]

I know it's very easy to look from the outside and see or hear a little based on snippets of video footage but really if our scouts rate gray (or anybody) and think they would make a good addition to our academy and ultimately the first team then go for it!!. It's not usual for more than a handful of kids to graduate from the academy they belonged to into the same teams 1st team. Most don't make it initially and make it at either another team in the league or via a lower league club. We can't/ shouldn't expect all of our current crop to make it.
Onomah, Winks, Oduwa and the rest all look promising for our u21's but the Premier League is a whole different level. Soem make it, some don't but saying lets not sign x,y,z because we already have 'joe bloggs' doesnt work. Competition breeds competition and in such a cut throat business were success and failure has such narrow margins, we want those players who wear the jersey to deserve it. What better way than by beating the opposition from within and then feeling like they have earned their place in the team.

 

[IGSpur]

I know it's very easy to look from the outside and see or hear a little based on snippets of video footage but really if our scouts rate gray (or anybody) and think they would make a good addition to our academy and ultimately the first team then go for it!!. It's not usual for more than a handful of kids to graduate from the academy they belonged to into the same teams 1st team. Most don't make it initially and make it at either another team in the league or via a lower league club. We can't/ shouldn't expect all of our current crop to make it.
Onomah, Winks, Oduwa and the rest all look promising for our u21's but the Premier League is a whole different level. Soem make it, some don't but saying lets not sign x,y,z because we already have 'joe bloggs' doesnt work. Competition breeds competition and in such a cut throat business were success and failure has such narrow margins, we want those players who wear the jersey to deserve it. What better way than by beating the opposition from within and then feeling like they have earned their place in the team.

Agree partly with this. We signed Azzaoui and have brought Yahaya into our academy when CM/AM/W are arguably our stronger positions. They would have provided competition and are highly talented players that were brought in for free. The difference is this could would cost 2mil mimimum it seems to come and compete in our academy and may not really play for us which is pointless when we have equally good players. That 2mil could be better spent elsewhere or contribute to a fee for a ready made player.

 

[kd2000]

Agree partly with this. We signed Azzaoui and have brought Yahaya into our academy when CM/AM/W are arguably our stronger positions. They would have provided competition and are highly talented players that were brought in for free. The difference is this could would cost 2mil mimimum it seems to come and compete in our academy and may not really play for us which is pointless when we have equally good players. That 2mil could be better spent elsewhere or contribute to a fee for a ready made player.

True, however I'd rather we had 4 players fighting for 2 positions, maybe one will make it. If we have less competition then potential might just remain potential. Players such as Azzaoui/ yahaya etc might have massive potential but could ultimately plateau and not develop beyond a certain level. Should we sit back and just expect them to be the players they could be, or aim to develop more players and increase our chances of success?
I might be wrong on this but I think i read something a while back that our academy purchases come from a different pot of money which is allocated specifically for future development or something. If this is the case, the rumoured £2 mil fee wouldnt affect or contribute to any fee for a ready made player.

 

[DaSpurs]

There's a middle ground in between your two arguments there, @IGSpur and @kd2000. IG is right that it's a senseless expenditure if they are of equal or near potentials, while kd is right that we can't always just sit back and expect a given youth talent to survive, regardless of potential. Of course, you both know both of these things, but the point here is that we don't know exactly how much the coaching staff regards either talent. I'm all for seeing Oduwa see time, especially with how weak we are at winger IMO, but for me if Oduwa is yet to even see the bench for us while we move for a kid seeing first choice minutes in the Championship and already the subject of rejected multi-million GBP bids, then it's tough to suggest that our staff views them as near equal.

I also don't think we'd be buying Gray to go into our reserves (were we to do so). He may play with them, but I think he'd see plenty of first team minutes, as there's no way a kid seeing first choice minutes in the Championship is going to agree to come to us to primarily play in our academy side.

 

[double0]

Wow I like what I'm seeing from Gray...must admit never knew of him but he does look a game changer talent, R Sterling type.

Yes please sign him up

 

[double0]

Looks talented with his dribbling & strength on the ball, but looks a bit Townsend like with the head down and shoot approach. Could definitely add something to our team if we plumped for him though

More Raheem Sterling

 

[vonn]

BBC Sport ‏@BBCSport 39s40 seconds ago
Birmingham City have rejected a £5m bid from Bournemouth for Demarai Gray reports @sportbbcwm: http://bbc.in/1LCwatk

 

[prawnsandwich]

BBC Sport ‏@BBCSport 39s40 seconds ago
Birmingham City have rejected a £5m bid from Bournemouth for Demarai Gray reports @sportbbcwm: http://bbc.in/1LCwatk

£5m repeated by SSN who say BCFC want £7-8 mill.