Disappointing end...

[Shea]

It was a poor game.
Horrible to watch.
A very strange line up.
We were away.
I felt a few players were out purely to be in the shop window.
Burnley are awkward buggers..so I'll take the point, begrudgingly.
We need to give Mason Bentaleb and Kane some rotation.

Mate, we were talking about the Liverpool away game

But yea I agree with what you say about the Burnley game - it was a banana skin potentially and after the frustration has settled a point isn't as bad as many think

 

[SteveH]

It was a poor game.
Horrible to watch.
A very strange line up.
We were away.
I felt a few players were out purely to be in the shop window.
Burnley are awkward buggers..so I'll take the point, begrudgingly.
We need to give Mason Bentaleb and Kane some rotation.

Mate, we were talking about the Liverpool away game

But yea I agree with what you say about the Burnley game - it was a banana skin potentially and after the frustration has settled a point isn't as bad as many think

Right! Got ya! Liverpool................basterds!

..............................................................................walks away >

 

[sunnydelight786]

This season under him is stinking of the one like we had under Ramos in 07-08 only minus the trophy. Everyone at the end of that season, including me btw, was spouting once he gets his own players, and we get rid of the deadwood, we will be flying. How did that one work out again....?

All this philosophy talk we hear is utter horse shit. I'm sick to death of hearing this line drawn out to justify poor performances and management. Is it really too much to ask for a manager to come in, work with what he's got and make us a challenging team without needing to rip the whole squad apart? It always has to be a 3-5 year plan for us with every manager and I'm sick to death of this waiting and hearing excuses for various managers failures.....

 

[jezz]

Disappointed at the season no.
Wasn't expecting top 4 and we made a cup final.
The only disappointing thing was seeing the team who implented the press and look good being thrown away after one shit half.
Even that half at West Ham didn't have the same team as Arse and Pool.
Now we have ended with a constant tinkering which quite frankly is bizarre.

 

[talkshowhost86]

This season under him is stinking of the one like we had under Ramos in 07-08 only minus the trophy. Everyone at the end of that season, including me btw, was spouting once he gets his own players, and we get rid of the deadwood, we will be flying. How did that one work out again....?

All this philosophy talk we hear is utter horse shit. I'm sick to death of hearing this line drawn out to justify poor performances and management. Is it really too much to ask for a manager to come in, work with what he's got and make us a challenging team without needing to rip the whole squad apart? It always has to be a 3-5 year plan for us with every manager and I'm sick to death of this waiting and hearing excuses for various managers failures.....

Yes it is far too much to expect a manager to just suddenly come in and make us amazing.

And when you say 'make us a challenging team', what do you mean? We've been challenging for top 4 this season. We've got to a cup final. Where exactly do you expect us to be challenging? With the likes of the top 4 who have infinitely more cash than us anyway?

Nobody is saying Poch is perfect, and in fact he is showing some worrying traits at the moment which will need to be eradicated, but did you genuinely expect him to come in and turn us into title contenders within a year?

 

[Mullers]

One of the reasons for Poch's appointment was that he would get the best out of the players we have and didn't need to bring too many players in. People kept saying wait until the January window we will clear deadwood and bring in this player and that player it didn't materialise. There won't be any 'warchest' for Poch in the summer either, players will need to go out first and that won't be easy. I think it is disappointed that he hasn't been able to get the best out of many players despite the double training sessions.

In the league we are punching at our weight only one point behind Liverpool, not sure what people expected from this season but I never expected us to be anywhere near top 4.

 

[Firekid]

Is it that bizzare? We know and the manager knows that we are likely to be in 5-7 at the end of the season. With UEFA almost guaranteed. Job done for this season.
Why wait till preseason to start assessing the "dead wood" see who plays well together in actual competitive games. Maybe he knows dembele and lamela work and is trying others of his players. Also will help next season if we are experimenting here at the end of the season, as they won't know how we will set up at the beginning of next?
(yeah its all make believe but i like my rose tinted glasses and i'm not taking them off for anybody!)

 

[Shadydan]

Poch shouldn't have dropped Dembele or Lamela, I would understand if Chadli or Townsend were showing some sort of form but they have been poor in BOTH attacking and defending, makes it so frustrating and unforgivable really.

 

[yido_number1]

Too many passengers in the squad and I hope we get the opportunity to remove a few inplace of hungrier up and comers be they from the academy or else where. Having 2 strikers out of 3 that we simply can't rely on is a massive draw back and we've also suffered from not having enough options in the AM 3 to make changes to games.

I hope Poch and the recruitment team get the opportunity to address things in the summer properly.

 

[talkshowhost86]

One of the reasons for Poch's appointment was that he would get the best out of the players we have and didn't need to bring too many players in. People kept saying wait until the January window we will clear deadwood and bring in this player and that player it didn't materialise. There won't be any 'warchest' for Poch in the summer either, players will need to go out first and that won't be easy. I think it is disappointed that he hasn't been able to get the best out of many players despite the double training sessions.

In the league we are punching at our weight only one point behind Liverpool, not sure what people expected from this season but I never expected us to be anywhere near top 4.

To be fair to Poch, when he came in I suspect he thought he could get a lot more out of the likes of Soldado, Lamela, Paulinho, Adebayor, Capoue, Kaboul etc.

With those players we really shouldn't need the big clear-out but those players have all failed to live up to expectations (something they did under 2 previous managers as well, so Poch can't exactly be blamed for that).

I am assuming that the relatively swift appointment of Mitchell came when Poch realised those players simply weren't up to it, and I think he's probably now got a very different plan to the one he started with last Summer.

Don't get me wrong, Poch is still culpable and seems to be struggling quite badly at the moment, but I think he's also been badly let down (in the same way that AVB was, and Sherwood was to an extent) by players that he thought would have more of an impact.

 

[mpickard2087]

Disappointed at the season no.
Wasn't expecting top 4 and we made a cup final.
The only disappointing thing was seeing the team who implented the press and look good being thrown away after one shit half.
Even that half at West Ham didn't have the same team as Arse and Pool.
Now we have ended with a constant tinkering which quite frankly is bizarre.

This is maybe a bit harsh, but we couldn't have had an easier route to the final. A bye, then we played two championship teams (both in poor form at that which led to them sacking the managers) at home, then also at home to an injury hit Newcastle team that was in the death throes of Pardew's reign, then made very heavy weather of seeing off a League One team in the semi final.

It was an incredibly easy path to the final and I don't think a fortuitously scheduled five game cup run means much in the grand scheme of things.

 

[Mullers]

To be fair to Poch, when he came in I suspect he thought he could get a lot more out of the likes of Soldado, Lamela, Paulinho, Adebayor, Capoue, Kaboul etc.

With those players we really shouldn't need the big clear-out but those players have all failed to live up to expectations (something they did under 2 previous managers as well, so Poch can't exactly be blamed for that).

I am assuming that the relatively swift appointment of Mitchell came when Poch realised those players simply weren't up to it, and I think he's probably now got a very different plan to the one he started with last Summer.

Don't get me wrong, Poch is still culpable and seems to be struggling quite badly at the moment, but I think he's also been badly let down (in the same way that AVB was, and Sherwood was to an extent) by players that he thought would have more of an impact.

Sherwood did manage to get Adebayor to start scoring but he was a novice manager seemingly lacking man management skills. I think Poch wanted Mitchell in because we missed out on a few players in the summer, one of them was Wellbeck. I remember he diplomatically said that he wanted to add a few more players to his amazing squad. As well as that I have a feeling he's not really impressed by the purchases of Fazio and Stambouli.

If we make too much changes then again it points to another transitional season as the new players need to get used to his training methods and his system. I honestly think he would be better off trying to use as much youngsters as he can, they are more hungry for success and more willing to fight for him I think.

 

[slartibartfast]

It was a poor game.
Horrible to watch.
A very strange line up.
We were away.
I felt a few players were out purely to be in the shop window.
Burnley are awkward buggers..so I'll take the point, begrudgingly.
We need to give Mason Bentaleb and Kane some rotation.

This went through my mind as well.
Disgrace if thats the case. Fans travel and forked out good money to see us rip Burnley a new one not lets give Pauline one more chance to shine. Box to box player? I don't know who scouted him but he's one of the laziest players ever. Fkin water carrier. Passes backwards everytime just about.

 

[jezz]

This is maybe a bit harsh, but we couldn't have had an easier route to the final. A bye, then we played two championship teams (both in poor form at that which led to them sacking the managers) at home, then also at home to an injury hit Newcastle team that was in the death throes of Pardew's reign, then made very heavy weather of seeing off a League One team in the semi final.

It was an incredibly easy path to the final and I don't think a fortuitously scheduled five game cup run means much in the grand scheme of things.

Correct but I think in previous years we wouldn't have got there.
If he stops fcuking about with the line ups we could actually achieve something.
only time will tell.

 

[eddiebailey]

To be fair to Poch, when he came in I suspect he thought he could get a lot more out of the likes of Soldado, Lamela, Paulinho, Adebayor, Capoue, Kaboul etc.

That was also the mistake Sherwood made (though he did get one of them playing); and it was one of the main reasons I wanted us to keep Sherwood on. Any new manager coming in meant a wasted season while he found out the things about the players Sherwood already knew; a new manager would also take time to grips with how to deal with the Spurs hierarchy, whereas Sherwood was used to dealing with them: he understood the expectations and the constraints, but would also stand his ground with them.

Tim would not necessarily have been a success, but at least the possibility of progress would have been there. With Tim gone I had zero expectations for the season, whoever came in. Tim in part got the push because Levy refused to accept that his investment in 2013 had failed, so it was a given that any new manager would be expected to work with those players.

Unsurprisingly, Pochettino has done no better in empirical terms with this squad than AVB or Tim did: I doubt anyone could, sixth is where they belong. So I can't say that I am disappointed with results under Pochettino. But I had hoped that if we were to tread water we could do so a little more stylishly.

 

[Mr Pink]

That was also the mistake Sherwood made (though he did get one of them playing); and it was one of the main reasons I wanted us to keep Sherwood on. Any new manager coming in meant a wasted season while he found out the things about the players Sherwood already knew; a new manager would also take time to grips with how to deal with the Spurs hierarchy, whereas Sherwood was used to dealing with them: he understood the expectations and the constraints, but would also stand his ground with them.

Tim would not necessarily have been a success, but at least the possibility of progress would have been there. With Tim gone I had zero expectations for the season, whoever came in. Tim in part got the push because Levy refused to accept that his investment in 2013 had failed, so it was a given that any new manager would be expected to work with those players.

Unsurprisingly, Pochettino has done no better in empirical terms with this squad than AVB or Tim did: I doubt anyone could, sixth is where they belong. So I can't say that I am disappointed with results under Pochettino. But I had hoped that if we were to tread water we could do so a little more stylishly.

To be fair humping Chelsea 5-3, beating Arsenal in the manner in which we did and going to Anfield and going toe to toe at such hard place to go is pretty stylish....instead of getting hammered - IMHO of course.

 

[eddiebailey]

To be fair humping Chelsea 5-3, beating Arsenal in the manner in which we did and going to Anfield and going toe to toe at such hard place to go is pretty stylish....instead of getting hammered - IMHO of course.

There have been high spots, but a goal difference of +5 paints a more accurate picture of the season as a whole.

 

[Mr Pink]

There have been high spots, but a goal difference of +5 paints a more accurate picture of the season as a whole.

Well its an improvement on last season, which was only +4.

And the high moments have been better than last season's as well!

 

[Gaz_Gammon]

To be fair humping Chelsea 5-3, beating Arsenal in the manner in which we did and going to Anfield and going toe to toe at such hard place to go is pretty stylish....instead of getting hammered - IMHO of course.

So as long as we show up for three games a season all is rosy at WHL. Rather than looking at the manner that we beat Arsenal i'd be tempted to look at the embarrassing defeats to teams like (at that time) Palace, West Brom, Stoke and Leicester to name a few. Since the West Brom fiasco nothing has really changed with tactics, system or player changes, it's almost like Poch has blind faith in the same eleven and that eventually everything will fall into place. Truth is, without Kane's goals this season in all likelihood Poch would have been staring at a a bottom six or seven finish and the same fate as AVB or Ramos. Goals were certainly not going to come from Soldado and Poch would never had played Ade.


At the end of the day as you hark back to that victory against our number one foe ask yourself this question, did Arsenal and Wenger learn a great deal more from their defeat against us than Poch did by winning that game.

 

[cornelius knob]

Stayed away for a few hours to calm down a bit after that, but what the fuck did we just watch?

Yes I know top four was extremely unlikely even had we won today, but the point is we still had a small chance. Anything can happen with the teams above - freak injury crisis, suspensions etc. You need to be in a position to capitalize if anyone really slips up. That's completely gone now and had we won at least it would of kept the interest going for a bit longer.

Lets be honest, that was such a cowardly performance. Yes Burnley work hard as a team and make it difficult and have done well at home against some of the other big sides but that doesn't excuse what we're in control of does it? I mean our performance and commitment levels were absolutely shocking today. Strolling around in the sun as if it didn't matter a jot. Only Danny Rose, not for the first time either, looked like he gave a shit.

Fans will always accept losing, or not winning, but the manner is all important. And given that we still had something to play for just makes it absolutely baffling. Pochettino needs to have them more fired up than that surely?

Pochettino's team selections are really grating now. They have been for weeks but its effectively fucked our season. Now that doesn't excuse what we saw today either, that team should be more than capable of applying themselves in a competitive manner but why he's decided to jeopardize all the good work we saw around January/February time when it looked like we had found the blueprint I just have no idea.

I've always been very pro Pochettino, and still am, but its concerning to say the least. Had he kept playing the same side that played against Arsenal and Liverpool (changes here and there of course but that template) who knows how it would of all panned out. I'm pretty confident we'd be in a better position than we are now, and its not with hindsight either as a lot of us have been banging on about it for weeks.

All that said its his first season and he needs time to make improvements and tweak the squad to his liking. I just think my faith in his ability has been rocked a bit in recent weeks. It was all looking so good after Arsenal, even after the Liverpool game I was still buzzing about the how side looked after the dust had settled and I had accepted the result.

And the most disappointing thing about it all is that he started changing it just when we entered the most critical patch of the season. Four weeks later and its all over, and it feels like we've just blown a great position and gone out with a whimper - its just that its dragged on and been spread out over a few weeks so it doesn't feel like a complete bottle job.

Anyway roll on next season and I'm hoping Pochettino has learned from some of this and makes some adjustments between now and the end of the season to at least restore some confidence in his ability, as far as some of the fans are concerned anyway. I said I wouldn't truly judge him until the end of next season and will definitely stick by that but its necessary to point out some valid criticism in the interim, as his decision to so blatantly drop what was a good thing is inexplicable really. And there hasn't even been a hint of him returning to it either.

You followed up the title of your thread with a very long and detailed description of the Easter Sunday shambles and a reflection on another season tailing off into disappointment. Yet not once in your essay to you mention one Daniel Levy. Is this man above all critscism. Can he do no wrong. Surely the root cause of our never ending cycle of transition and ultimate failure is the man who sells the likes of Modric, VDV, and Bale but refuses to back his manager with the any adequate replacements. Bring in second or third choice players like Stambouli and Fazio, . Force through youngsters like Mason who are nowhere near good enough for this level. Refuse to take a hit on obvious failures like Paulinho and Soldado. While all the time refusing to sanction any net spend on transfers as we become the most profitable premier league club off the pitch but the biggest under achievers on it. Tell me, seriously, is there any point whatsoever where you would start to question the role of Levy and ENIC. I`m assuming there must be a tipping point. I`m curious to know what that would be.