dragon1 tidbits

[phil]

Dragon1 does have a good rep on this stuff.

I cant see the Bale stuff being true tho - he was back in full training sure?

No he was quoted late last week as saying he would soon be back in training. That is confirmed by the Dragon1 info.

 

[Hoowl]

Wtf. If they're not both back by the West Ham game, I blame dragon1. And you Hoowl.

oh man.

 

[joey55]

Do you think 7th place is out of our reach? That position has granted a wafer cup place on many occasions in the past, and surely we can aim for that?

I think it is. Normally there are only 6 or 7 genuinley decent sides, but this season the Prem is so insanely strong and there are 12 sides that are of a high quality. A top half finish in this current league is nothing to be ashamed of for any side outside the top 4. For a top 7 finish too many teams would have to slip up. The 7th place team is already 11pts and a game in hand ahead of us. And inbetween us and 7th are teams like Newcastle, Villa, Wham and Everton, who all have very decetn squads and will strengthen again in Jan. I'm not sure there has ever been such a strong league before, as what we are currently seeing in the Prem. Last season everyone was talking about the strength of our top 4, but since the TV money and all the take overs everyone has had money to spend and the result is an incredibly tough league.

 

[yanno]

It seems a few ITKs were spreading anti Jol propaganda once they heard that the board wanted to replace him. We had stories that Jol wanted to sell the best players, and that Jol was being a "backstabber" by talking to Newcastle.

Seems this propaganda was put in place to soften the blow when Jol was sacked. And, it worked. Many fans were saying it's time for Jol to go, and they thought it was his fault, rather than the fault of the board who systematically undermined him and gave him players he didn't require.

This was indeed the case, and the tone and texture of dragon1's "voice" even seemed to alter somewhat. The type of ITK offered was that Jol would get a £4 million payoff. Which was spot on, and from which we can conclude that that particular dragon1 was a highly credible and well-placed ITK... :wink:

 

[joey55]

Also dragon angrily pointed out that Jol had no say with transfers, having only 24hrs earlier said that Jol wanted to sell Berbs and by Crouch.

 

[PLTuck]

I think it was dragon1 that broke the news on 'Black Thursday' (Gatafe game) about Ramos / Poyet and Allen / Inglethorpe. Later backed up by other ITKs

I think it's worth remembering that ITKs only pass on what they are told. If they are fed a load of BS propaganda, that's what is passed on.
Some also obviously have their own agendas which means the info gets slanted.

Generally it's good info though. Especially recently where Kaboul was mentioned way back in May, Bale and Bent were correctly predicted, despite people rubbishing them (Bale to ManU, Bent to Spam).

As long as you take what they say as a bonus, and not as gospel, it's all good

 

[Bobishism]

Many fans were saying it's time for Jol to go, and they thought it was his fault, rather than the fault of the board who systematically undermined him and gave him players he didn't require.

Or the fact he was shit at his job.

 

[eddiebailey]

Seventh place IS possible if we can pick up enough points before the window. If we have to wait until the window for significant improvement we are screwed. In other words, if the squad was good enough and all that was needed was a change of manager we should be alright; if not…

If Ramos demands major transfer activity in January, and I am sure he will, the Board is going to have a lot of explaining to do. How is it that Jol had a squad strong enough to break into the top four, but Ramos does not? And how does this fit with the Board’s belief that the Director of Football structure prevents the disruption resulting from wholesale changes of playing of staff when a new manager is appointed?

 

[Subarov]

Or the fact he was shit at his job.

5th place in consecutive seasons. Who outside of the world's very best managers do you think could have done better with the squad Jol had?

 

[Bobishism]

Hughes, Ramos, Redknapp, Sven, Moyes. I'm probably forgetting a few.

 

[Subarov]

Hughes, Ramos, Redknapp, Sven, Moyes. I'm probably forgetting a few.

They'd have got us into the Champs League?

 

[Bobishism]

Admitably, no. But they all look good in a suit.

 

[Subarov]

Admitably, no. But they all look good in a suit.

Even Bent 'Arry? Eek

Always looks like a diabetic used car salesman to me!

 

[yanno]

If Ramos demands major transfer activity in January, and I am sure he will, the Board is going to have a lot of explaining to do. How is it that Jol had a squad strong enough to break into the top four, but Ramos does not? And how does this fit with the Board’s belief that the Director of Football structure prevents the disruption resulting from wholesale changes of playing of staff when a new manager is appointed?

Important points with which I agree.

I would add the following qualification: from many comments over the years, Jol's favoured system appears to be a Dutch 4-3-3 with two wide attacking midfielders (aka wingers who track back), and a classic Number Ten playmaker (a Riquelme or van der Vaart). Jol never had the personnel to play this system, and seemed to muddle along with a bog standard English 4-4-2, with a box-to-box CM, and a LM who constantly had to cut inside due to lack of confidence in his left foot (only changed when left-back Bale showed he can play as a proper LM).

My point is that Ramos has come in, with a huge salary and in a very strong position (having been actively courted by Spurs), and I suspect pretty much demanded that the team will play to his formation. Unsurprisingly, many of the existing players are not best suited to Ramos football (for instance, The Hud's lack of mobility and aggression seem to rule him out as a Ramos CM).

And this is why the "player continuity" supposedly granted by a DoF is always going to be fictional. A new coach, in a strong position, will always demand that he has the players to play his system, and that will almost inevitably lead to mass turnover of players. Jol was in weak position when he took over from Santini - Arnensen wanted him, Levy wanted a bigger name but had messed up with Jacques and agreed to Arnensen's recommendation. But Jol never seemed to be in a position to say: this is my preferred system (Dutch 4-3-3), now get me the players to play it.

Ultimately, I think it's very healthy for the club that we now have a coach who will not have to put up with Comolli allegedly selling a key player (Carrick) and replacing him with an inferior version (Zokora) that the DoF rates but who is clearly incapable of fulfilling the role in the team that the original player filled.

 

[Flatters]

oh man.

Yeah.

 

[tony0379]

ahh excellent news the new world is coming together nicely

 

[The Apprentice]

Ledders back will be like a new player. I hope we're going to splash out in the window.

We won't make Wafer via the league. Fingers crossed for the League cup.

 

[hybridsoldier]

who the hell is ledley king?

oh yeah

 

[Real_madyidd]

Or the fact he was shit at his job.

Fact? What fact? Oh, your opinion. Well that's a great fact to bring up.

 

[sloth]

Important points with which I agree.

I would add the following qualification: from many comments over the years, Jol's favoured system appears to be a Dutch 4-3-3 with two wide attacking midfielders (aka wingers who track back), and a classic Number Ten playmaker (a Riquelme or van der Vaart). Jol never had the personnel to play this system, and seemed to muddle along with a bog standard English 4-4-2, with a box-to-box CM, and a LM who constantly had to cut inside due to lack of confidence in his left foot (only changed when left-back Bale showed he can play as a proper LM).

My point is that Ramos has come in, with a huge salary and in a very strong position (having been actively courted by Spurs), and I suspect pretty much demanded that the team will play to his formation. Unsurprisingly, many of the existing players are not best suited to Ramos football (for instance, The Hud's lack of mobility and aggression seem to rule him out as a Ramos CM).

And this is why the "player continuity" supposedly granted by a DoF is always going to be fictional. A new coach, in a strong position, will always demand that he has the players to play his system, and that will almost inevitably lead to mass turnover of players. Jol was in weak position when he took over from Santini - Arnensen wanted him, Levy wanted a bigger name but had messed up with Jacques and agreed to Arnensen's recommendation. But Jol never seemed to be in a position to say: this is my preferred system (Dutch 4-3-3), now get me the players to play it.

Ultimately, I think it's very healthy for the club that we now have a coach who will not have to put up with Comolli allegedly selling a key player (Carrick) and replacing him with an inferior version (Zokora) that the DoF rates but who is clearly incapable of fulfilling the role in the team that the original player filled.

Far too many degrees of speculation there. Not like you at all Yanno.