Enough is Enough, Just renovate WHL!

Discussion in 'The New Stadium' started by Jay The Yid, Jun 14, 2011.

  1. Jay The Yid

    Jay The Yid Active Member

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    Enough is Enough, Just renovate the existing WHL site!

    So its gone very quiet on the new stadium front. Nothing is being said about the NDP and we lost the Olympic Stadium bid. Despie the judiciary appeal I can only see us getting compensation (quite rightly so) rather that getting the decision over turned.

    So as it stands we are stuck in our lovely but small WHL home.

    My honest opinion when I saw the plans for NDP development was one of disapointment. i hate the new stadiums and ditest the Emirates and all I could see was an Emirates Mark II with blue seats.

    I prefer the older more traditional stadiums that have been developed over the years with Old Trafford being the best example. When you go there you can smell the history and you know that the same pitch has played host to all the United greats in the past. Something that is lacking at the Emirates!

    So it got me thinking that wouldnt it be alot better if we just renovated our current home?

    The current West stand only hold 6,800 as when it was built in the early 80's every inch of planning went on corporate hospitality. So this stand has to go.

    The East stand is alot larger and holds 10,800, however it is the oldest stand at the ground and still has pillars!

    You could build on the East and West sides of the curent ground 2 stands that could hold aound 16,000 each. (similar to West Hams Dr Martin stand and Chelsea's West Stand) with all the corporate facilites needed but at the same time maximising capacity. This would increase capacity at WHL to around 51,000. Perfect size for us IMO.

    It would be a fraction of the cost
    It will take 1 1/2 years to build.
    No need for any stupid sponsorship names
    We keep the atmosphere.

    One major draw back would be that for a season and a half we would have to play our games elsewhere say Wembley?. But I think it would be a price worth paying.

    I will honestly cry if/when that place gets knocked down and when I look at the best most historic stadia in the world they are all older stadiums.

    Yes the old place is looking a bit tired but its home and I love it!!!!

    Come on Levy and co lets just bin the plans and rebuild the beutiful WHL!!!!
     
  2. Lilbaz

    Lilbaz Just call me Baz

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    We are waiting on 2 counts. Firstly the Judicial review. Secondly to see if Tottenham becomes an enterprise zone.

    Also remember it took us 7 years of planning to get the NDP plans this far. We still need compulsory purchase orders and are arguing about the S106. How long do you think it will take to get permission and build a totally different project? Remembering that our last couple of attempts (90s) have been turned down by the council.

    The main problem though remains. The banks are being gits about lending money to businesses.
     
  3. PT

    PT North Stand behind Pat's goal. Admin

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    Transport capabilities can barely cope with 36000.
     
  4. Jay The Yid

    Jay The Yid Active Member

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    So why did we even bother with the NDP?

    To be honest I dont buy it.

    I get the train in most games and occasionaly drive in. Maybe im a veteran and know a few back roads but I never have too much of a problem.

    When it comes to getting there by train we have WHL, Northumberland Park, Tottenham Hale, and Seven Sisters all within walking distance of the ground. Sure its a bit of a walk but its not too bad. I think some people are just lazy!!!!
     
  5. PT

    PT North Stand behind Pat's goal. Admin

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    The Police have a say in what is capable and isnt.
     
  6. Rocksuperstar

    Rocksuperstar just a child getting older...

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    Wasn't the last couple of applications to expand the current stadium denied on the grounds that it would have to be expanded upwards, which would affect the surrounding area too much, or something along them lines?
     
  7. C0YS

    C0YS Just another member

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    And they sent a letter, with while having a few concerns largely okaying the NDP.
     
  8. Krafty

    Krafty Well-Known Member

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    Transport - I don't think its necessarily a problem with options, more the fact that the train stations and Seven Sisters are not built to hold an extra 20,000 people in the way that somewhere like Wembley is. The queue for White Hart Lane station goes past the pub and down the road towards the high street. Another 5,000 people and you need much more policing, you need to close off roads or have a properly organised queueing route, then at Seven Sisters you need to hold people back from the platform so they don't become overcrowded. You have Northumberland Park the other way - the authorities would probably end up closing off most of the area around the ground so that people can walk and queue around the stations safely.

    It's not hard to get home from WHL, but the extra people will make it increasingly unsafe without further action. And we would need more trains running during match days, which has knock on effects all over the transport system.

    Redevelopment - I think it's very optimistic to think we can just add an extra X thousand seats easily. The East stand, for example, is unbelievably cramped. The stand would have to be extended upwards and backwards to fit in the extra seats, toilets,, refreshment stalls, plus more space which is already needed with the current capacity. You'd have to build onto the playground at the back, so you'd have to relocate and compensate them.

    The West Stand would mean relocating the car park, which personally I couldn't care about but might cause some issues. You'd have to close down those stands, missing out on easily 25% of match revenue, but probably nearer 40% because they have the corporate facilities in them (and if you re done the West stand you'd have to find somewhere for the changing rooms and media facilities). Going to Wembley isnt an option because they aren't allowed tenants and we'd clash with all the events they have planned there.

    I don't know how much the costs would be, undoubtedly less than the NDP but I don't think it would be cheap, we would still need to take out a big loan, we'd have less income during the rebuilding phase (unlike NDP when we will have at least the WHL capacity all through the building phases), there is less space, we wouldn't get money from naming rights, the new stands would still not be ideal in terms of space or layout, which would affect our revenue generating ability in the long term, and of course we have already made an outlay on most of the land for the NDP, and its unlikely we would recoup our money on that.

    It's not a simple one, either way its going to cost money. I love the atmosphere of WHL, being so close to the pitch and everything. But I think we do need a new stadium as WHL will not be fit for purpose in 20 years time.

    Look at how big the new stadium is going to be compared to WHL. That shows you just how cramp the innards of WHL are. We have to face facts and admit that it isn't us fans that bring the money in its the corporate clients. Just adding seats wont be enough.
     
  9. Jay The Yid

    Jay The Yid Active Member

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    Krafty,

    Your point about losing revenue whilst work is going on is very valid. Thats why I suggested in my OP that we will have to play a season at another stadium. Wembley being the obvious option.
     
  10. MattyP

    MattyP Advises to have a beer & sleep with prostitutes

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    Like it or loathe it, without naming rights there will be no stadium development.

    For that reason, renovating WHL has never been a realistic option, simply because no company in their right mind will pay to sponsor a stadium that would always be referred to as White Hart Lane.
     
  11. Krafty

    Krafty Well-Known Member

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    But as I said, I don't believe Wembley is allowed to have tenants, or at least is only allowed to host events for a set number of days a year (otherwise the residents would get extremely pissed off with all the crowds on the tubes/trains, in the pubs, causing a mess and the like). And I don't think the club or most of the fans would want to ground share with anyone - again we would lose money, and realistically its only Chelsea, Arsenal or West Ham who have a stadium anywhere near big enough. And I dont think they would want to help us out
     
  12. PT

    PT North Stand behind Pat's goal. Admin

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    We couold always double up at The Emerates for a season - bring our own seat covers.
     
  13. brett.spurs

    brett.spurs Banned

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    Joe Lewis should step upto the plate and bankroll it all.
     
  14. Lilbaz

    Lilbaz Just call me Baz

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    Only problem is that he doesn't own Spurs. He owns the Tavistock group who own Enic who own Spurs. He's only a shareholder.

    That said he's 80 odd and a nice legacy will be a Lewis Stadium. £450m a bargain.
     
  15. ohh Teddy Teddy

    ohh Teddy Teddy Well-Known Member

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    The OP mentioned building new West and East stands however I cant see that theres much room if any to enlarge the east stand, it would have to be an over hanging tier and probably at max it would be 3,000 to 4,000 bigger than what it already is.

    Now I dont know how this could be done, or even if its value for money so to speak, but wouldnt it be better if we just gradually started knocking stands down and turn the pitch round? (I dont mean build a new stadium straight away) more like whats happend at Upton Park a decade ago nearly now, thoughts?

    And has anyone heard about or seen any sites in or around Tottenham that could house a stadium? What about this site opposite Tesco & Ikea just down the road?

    [​IMG]

    Apoligies if something similar has been posted previously
     
  16. Rocksuperstar

    Rocksuperstar just a child getting older...

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    That site is actually a lot smaller than it looks on that map - might just about squeeze a stadium on it but not much else to fund it. Also, considering how National Rail have changed the timetable so that Angel Road now only gets one train per day pass through it from Liverpool Street, and that the expansion plans have vanished into thin air, i can't see that being as viable a site as it appears from above, sadly.
     
  17. ohh Teddy Teddy

    ohh Teddy Teddy Well-Known Member

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    A shame really, because it looking ever more likely that we will either have to stay as we are and go back to square 1, or move out the borough. Would people still be upset if moved say, more hertfordshire way? (granted I wouldnt want to move there but would rather move there than to East London)
     
  18. JimmyG2

    JimmyG2 SC Supporter

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    Refurbish WHL, there are feasibility studies in hand already
    and if there are not, why not?

    The Old Firm game was shown under licence from Sky I believe on the Internet, which I suggested months ago was the way forward.
    As the grip of Murdoch declines and he is deemed not fit to hold any of the BSkyB
    franchise the whole scene might open up.
    Premiership clubs could do deals and sell on the costs to their fans.
    Sell the rights to all at least home games via Sky or whoever onto the internet
    I already subscribe to just such a site which I will not name.
    If it were legal then I am sure you could get tens of thousands of people subscribing

    New stadia are so last century.
    And for those that want the live experience then WHL
    is still there possibly expanded and renamed.
    'The whoever at WHL.'

    A new stadium is several years away.
     
  19. Jay The Yid

    Jay The Yid Active Member

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    You would of thought so?

    I think the argument is cost? But I just dont understand how demolishing 2 stands and building 2 new stands can equate to more than the whole NDP project?

    I hate new stadia to be honest. Souless places. Give me a revamped WHL anyday.
     
  20. MattyP

    MattyP Advises to have a beer & sleep with prostitutes

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    Reduced revenue for at least two seasons (one season per stand), virtually no chance of securing naming rights plus lack of enabling works.

    With the NDP, there would be no reduction in stadium capacity at any point. This revenue contributes to Uefa's Financial Fair Play, so we'd actually have to reduce our wages to redevelop WHL and still comply.

    No right minded company would spunk £100m+ on naming rights for a redeveloped WHL. Even though it's very close, the NDP is a new stadium so would get a new name.

    The enabling works (supermarket, flats, museum etc) will subsidise some of the cost of the new stadium. They formed an integral part of the new development, whether planning permission would be given for these but with only a redeveloped WHL would be open to debate.
     

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