Eric Dier

[pablo73]

I think anyone who is saying that Dier is a better central midfielder than Henderson, on current/recent form at least, is wearing Spurs tinted glasses. Henderson has become a much more progressive passer this season whereas Dier looks like what he is, a good player but ultimately a centre back playing in midfield.

 

[Bulletspur]

My contribution to this debate is that we are going to miss Dembele when he goes. He schooled Dier in this match without seeming to break sweat.

 

[nicdic]

I think anyone who is saying that Dier is a better central midfielder than Henderson, on current/recent form at least, is wearing Spurs tinted glasses. Henderson has become a much more progressive passer this season whereas Dier looks like what he is, a good player but ultimately a centre back playing in midfield.

Henderson's stats look good because Liverpool hit the ball long over the top for Salah to work magic from. Much easier to hit a "key pass" in that set up than from the deepest midfield position in ours.

Also think it's grossly unfair to criticise Dier on last nights performance. Put him with the rest of the starting XI and we have a much clearer picture of who brings more.

As much at the commentators/pundits have been singing Henderson's praises, for me it's still a throwback to just praising someone who does a bit of shouting and pointing and looks passionate. Cannot stand him as a footballer.

 

[Colston]

Oh man these last pages have been frustrating to read.

I just feel like I have to remind some of you that Eric Dier plays regularly in the DM position at one of the strongest clubs in one of the strongest leagues in the world. There is no "never going to make it at DM" with him because he's already fucking made it.

Just because he's had one bad game for England doesn't mean shit, stop this idiocy at once. England has a history of making some of the best players to ever grace the PL/CL look mediocre.

 

[Primativ]

cb playing dm.

I find this staggering. He's an even worse CB. I like Dier but he isn't a CB and he needs to get back to playing well in CM. He's got worse recently.

 

[tiger666]

He's got worse recently.

For England or Spurs?

 

[Primativ]

Henderson's stats look good because Liverpool hit the ball long over the top for Salah to work magic from. Much easier to hit a "key pass" in that set up than from the deepest midfield position in ours.

Also think it's grossly unfair to criticise Dier on last nights performance. Put him with the rest of the starting XI and we have a much clearer picture of who brings more.

As much at the commentators/pundits have been singing Henderson's praises, for me it's still a throwback to just praising someone who does a bit of shouting and pointing and looks passionate. Cannot stand him as a footballer.

Henderson has played well in the world cup so far and is a much better user of the ball than Dier is. In terms of form it's not close.

 

[thebenjamin]

Eric is an excellent DM in front of a back 4 as his tactical intelligence enables him to select appropriate moments to drop in between the centre backs, create a 3 and allow the full backs to become wing backs. In front of a back 3 that is completely taken away from his game and he's just another centre back in a team already containing 3 centre backs.

He's a DM in a 4 at the back system or a centre back in a 3 at the back.

 

[Primativ]

For England or Spurs?

At CB? He's been rotten for Spurs whenever asked to play there.

I'm generally a fan of Dier but I'm not afraid to criticise a player. He was stinking last night. For Spurs I don't think last season he came close to hitting the heights of 2016. I don't see any improvement in his game recently. He seems to have hit a ceiling so far.

 

[Nebby]

Pointless judging anyone on last night's game. Nobody was playing at 100% intensity. Rashford seemed barely interested in getting into the box, Jones was getting pushed around at the back, Dier was just going through the motions in midfield.

 

[Primativ]

For England or Spurs?

You disagree that he's a terrible CB? He's a donkey at the back which us why it surprises me when I see people say he's a CB playing CM. He doesn't know how to defend a ball over the top when at CB and hates being turned towards goal.

In CM. He's really prone to playing hospital passes, making errors, his long passing is unreliable at best and at worst really poor. I preferred Wanyama there season before last but shame last season he had that injury.

 

[dontcallme]

At CB? He's been rotten for Spurs whenever asked to play there.

I'm generally a fan of Dier but I'm not afraid to criticise a player. He was stinking last night. For Spurs I don't think last season he came close to hitting the heights of 2016. I don't see any improvement in his game recently. He seems to have hit a ceiling so far.

He does seem to have stagnated a bit recently. I think he initially wasn’t seen by fans as a DM so when he did well there for us and had a decent international tournament expectations were high.

I think he has had some good games at centre back, one especially against Utd if I am not mistaken.

I agree with a poster above that he does well at DM in front of a back two but in front of three he becomes a bit redundant.

I think there is a good player there, still young so hope we can develop him some more to hit his ceiling.

 

[pablo73]

Henderson's stats look good because Liverpool hit the ball long over the top for Salah to work magic from. Much easier to hit a "key pass" in that set up than from the deepest midfield position in ours.

Also think it's grossly unfair to criticise Dier on last nights performance. Put him with the rest of the starting XI and we have a much clearer picture of who brings more.

As much at the commentators/pundits have been singing Henderson's praises, for me it's still a throwback to just praising someone who does a bit of shouting and pointing and looks passionate. Cannot stand him as a footballer.

I'm not basing it on last night's performance or on stats, I just think over the course of the past season Henderson has been the better player. That's coming from someone who doesn't massively rate Henderson

 

[piedpiper]

A sure sign that someone has absolutely 0 clue about the role Dier plays or the value he brings, and generally the role of a holding midfielder, is when they say he isn't energetic enough or doesn't press well. That's literally the last thing you want from your defensive midfielder in England's system as it would leave all sorts of holes in midfield for crafty attackers and advanced midfielders to exploit. And the same goes for Spurs. When teams break through our press it's almost always Dier who is positioned perfectly to slow down their attack and allow the players who have pressed to regain their shape. It's just weird that people think that because he uses an economy of movement and doesnt run around like a headless chicken, it means he's been poor.

Dier's knowledge of defensive positioning is genuinely elite. There's no one better in this English squad when it comes to those instincts, and no one who plays in midfield for Spurs who is better. Anyone who just looks at his 'simple' passing or lack of energy is ridiculously lazy and shallow in their analysis of his game, and it's a sure sign of someone who has a poor understanding and appreciation of the defensive qualities in a footballer, and their importance to a team.

There is a reason why the best defensive coach in the league over the last few years always picks him, and there's a reason why arguably the best defensive coach in the world was desperate to splash 50m on him last summer. They both appreciate how good Dier is with his defensive instincts and knoweldge of where to be somewhere and when to be there.

Where is that bowdown before you emoji when you need it. An excellent analysis of his role.

 

[JAYSTAR]

There's no way we we're playing to win, so not a lot of point judging performances, at acting maybe, but not playing football. The interviews with Alexander Arnold and Southgate were particularly impressive examples of pretending we had some desire to win. I must admit it was the right choice to play to not win and hoping they would want to beat us. Belgium vs Brazil is going to be a good game it has to be said.

 

[Primativ]

He does seem to have stagnated a bit recently. I think he initially wasn’t seen by fans as a DM so when he did well there for us and had a decent international tournament expectations were high.

I think he has had some good games at centre back, one especially against Utd if I am not mistaken.

I agree with a poster above that he does well at DM in front of a back two but in front of three he becomes a bit redundant.

I think there is a good player there, still young so hope we can develop him some more to hit his ceiling.

He has had some good games at CB yes but I know for certain it was fairly universal opinion that he has had more shockers at CB than good games. It's pure revisionism if anyone suggests otherwise. It's no surprise that Poch only puts Dier there in absolute emergencies.

If Dier was such a good CB he'd be playing there consistently for Spurs but he doesn't because he isn't very good back there. I remember last game of the season against Leicester Dier was at the back and was absolutely awful. Assisted Vardys goal with a terrible header. Dier was all over the place and Leicester looked like scoring at will. As soon as Sanchez came on we looked so much better at the back.

On last night, it was a dead rubber but this is a world cup. On the contrary Rashford and Vardy worked their socks off but lacked quality service. Dier ambled about in the middle like he didn't care. His use of the ball and off the ball work was poor. Does he seriously expect to gain a CM spot in the first 11 playing like he did? The way he backed off for that strike in the first half was poor. He should be gutted really as he's blown his chance to start in this world cup barring injury or suspension to Henderson.

 

[tiger666]

We're told we're not supposed to judge players we're linked with on WC games yet we have posters waiting to jump on our own players based on one WC game.

 

[Primativ]

We're told we're not supposed to judge players we're linked with on WC games yet we have posters waiting to jump on our own players based on one WC game.

It's called reflecting on a players last performance. If he had a MOM display last night this thread would be full of praise. You can't have it both ways.

Trippier's thread is full of praise for his world cup performances by the way..

 

[tiger666]

It's called reflecting on a players last performance. If he had a MOM display last night this thread would be full of praise. You can't have it both ways.

Trippier's thread is full of praise for his world cup performances by the way..

Doesn't seem like you're reflecting on last nights performance when calling him a donkey at CB. It seems you're using last nights performance as an excuse to have a dig.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Where I agree with you is that Dier does not possess the quality to be a high level holding midfielder. He was totally dreadful against Belgium. Possibly the worst player on the pitch. He has proven himself a good option at the back but that’s as far as it goes. He had a good season in the year we finished 3rd but since then has not looked like a midfielder at at all.

Where I’m sure you will disagree with me is that there was a stark contrast between Dier and Dembele in that match. Dembele did the simple things well whereas Dier simply did nothing. We are going to miss Dembele a huge amount and I for one still think that he would be worth keeping if only to help close out matches when we are up, just as he did for Belgium.

I think by and large, our performances through much of Dembele’s large periods of absences over the last few seasons suggest we won’t miss him as much as some believe, especially if we recruit well.

I’ve always acknowledged that on a good day he’s got some great attributes that can be an asset, but our midfield is a creative black hole that sucks everything into its vortex, it needs to evolve.