European Super League Mega Thread

[C0YS]

Better football?
Better quality games?

I mean a lot of people complain about the group stages of the Champions League and how boring it is. How often do you even see Real Madrid be given a good game by Apoel Nicosia or Ludogorets?? It's almost always a rout!

Even our CL final run was a bit of a struggle. We hardly needed to be great to make the KO stages and scraped through. But more often than not you get 1 or 2 interesting groups and then the rest are relatively straightforward.

The EL is even worse!! Qualifying stages against teams you can beat in your sleep and then a group stage that is always a straightforward and boring task.

No-one ever comments on great games from the EL group stages, it doesn't even warm up until the quarter finals/semi finals

At least with a Super League, you will get more intense games and you may find a situation where you go to the last few games and everything is still all to play for?!

Either UEFA need to get around the table and reformat a competition that suits everyone (most) and maintains quality. They should focus on stealing the Super League's idea but keep the relegation/qualification basis.

Lets dig into the actual records of APOEL and Ludogorets in the CL shall we

APOEL have reached the group stages four times in recent years.

They have lost by more than 4 goals two time in the group stages, once against Barca once against real Madrid. In that time, they have finished 1st place in the CL group once, reaching the quarter-finals, before going out to Real Madrid in 2012. They are not just people who turn up to be beaten, but actually tend to be awkward opponents.

Ludogorets have reached the group stages twice, one time finishing 4th and one time 3rd, they have lost by 4 or more goals three times, against Real Madrid, Arsenal and Basel. They have also drawn against PSG and Liverpool, as well as drawing against Basel three times, they were also unlucky to be beaten by Arsenal 3-2. Not great but not an embarrassment.

These teams do okay, and sometimes, like Apoel in 2012, can go on an unexpected run. The perception is just so off compared to how these teams actually perform. The reality is, even if you go through the winner's section, qualifying for the CL is really hard. And teams like APOEL and Ludogorets, when they qualify are no worse than the likes of Celtic, which we tend to overrate because of the geographical proximity.

 

[Inq]

When it comes to business, football is doing better than ever financially, but the European competitions are still stuck 50-100 years in the past. It makes no sense financially for a club like Barcelona to be playing say, Apoel Nicosia or Besiktas, when it would be far more profitable to play clubs like Juventus or Man United every week.

Agree with most of what you said and I don't think anyone misunderstood the finances behind why it happened. But the little bit of magic in football is when these types of sides get to play the big teams. Its a different competition but when we played Marine in January if fans were allowed these are the games that can financially help small clubs stay afloat. In Europe some of these countries don't have big games against domestic clubs due to the limitations of the league. And the CL/EL is how they get that.

This is where the big clubs have lost the plot where I believe they thought a lot of fans wanted to play real madrid every year. Yes, the game is of highest standard. But I know first hand from some of my mates that going away to these smaller clubs are some of the best times they've had as a supporter. Money is a big part of the game but playing the smaller clubs here and there when they deserve the right to be there for playing well in their domestic leagues is part of the magic in this game.

Justifying what is happening by saying it doesn't make sense financially is silly. Its like saying "Well I make more money than you so I should have further rights to make more money than you. And it should be unopposed because well, I make more money than you".

The strength of these 'super' clubs alone leaves a large enough disparity within football. The money they bring in already is insane and furthering that is only extending the difference in power between clubs.

 

[mattstev2000]

Can't really decide whether I'm bothered by this or not. All the outcry from places like FIFA, UEFA, the PL and Sky is amusing considering they pretty much invented football corruption and created a situation whereby the game is basically about who has the biggest bank balance.

Also, anyone who thinks that the PL isn't pretty much a closed shop for the top twelve teams in it anyway is deluding themselves. That's what the premier league did, it's prize money distribution and broadcast rights payments created a situation where the rich teams get richer, which makes them more likely to win, which makes them richer etc.

The main thing I find surprising about it all is that we managed to sneak into the twelve founding clubs somehow.

 

[14/04/91]

I understand the difference of promotion and no promotion yes.

Then you can't compare this with the formation of the Premier League.
Sky/PL capitalised on football's increasing popularity, that's all. The teams in the 1st PL were there on merit; every team promoted/relegated since were on merit.

Us and Arsenal aren't going to make top 4 this season so how are we in this Super League?? But we are, and we're protected from relegation even if we lose every match in it. Sport is about competition, winning & losing. This totally removes that fundamental belief.

 

[JayB]

The Premier League (and Serie A, La Liga etc) is essentially finished if this goes ahead.
Other than winning the league (and avoiding relegation), there's nothing to play for. We could finish 2nd or 17th and it wouldn't really make any difference, we'd still be part of this stitch up the following season.
So basically at least half the teams will be playing dead rubbers from January onwards.

Oh and how much more money will be going to the players and their agents now?! £1m a week for Pogba to stroll around not breaking sweat?? £250k for Winks to cry like a baby when he's not picked.

Horrendous day for football, possibly the worst day in every football club's history.

The priority domestically will now shift to winning the league, followed by winning the domestic cups. No longer will you have clubs placing greater emphasis on finishing fourth than on their cup campaigns, which has obviously been the remit given by Levy to his managers over the years.

I’m young and American and can’t claim to know or understand the history of football. I’m also disgusted by the betrayal of meritocratic principles which has always been one of the biggest draws of the game for me. But is it not the case that this new state of affairs — focusing on actually winning things domestically rather than top four, and on doing as well in “Europe” as possible — not essentially how it always was back in the days of the European Cup?

The closed shop nature of the Super League is what I find objectionable, not the effect it will have on the domestic game. It will restore the cups to their rightful place of being more prestigious than top four, which for me is a good thing.

 

[C0YS]

Yes because of Bein's broadcasting rights to the CL. Plus wouldn't be a great look for Qatar just before their world cup.

You're right, early days. But I can't believe the ESL clubs wouldn't have had legals going over all of this before making their move.

The problem is you are assuming they give two fucks about the consequences, I'm not convinced they do. I don't think they are scared of a split. They think regardless of what happens the strength of the brands involved will make it a success.

 

[14/04/91]

There is actually a very simple way to rectify this which involves breaking a 100+ year tradition: a finals series (playoffs in americaspeak). The top 8 at the end of the season could play off in a series of knockout rounds that decide who wins the league.

Is it an american idea? Yes.
Would it result in lesser clubs winning the title more frequently? Probably.

Not sure we need any more American influence.......

 

[SirNiNyHotspur]

The foreign owners could not give s flying fuck if their fans in the UK protest or threaten to boycott the games.
And the reason.....they will take the new super League globally, fans in Asia ,USA etc will pack the stadia and the world TV audience will tune in

We don't matter anymore

Haha so we had little on field success for the last 20 years as we priortized the stadium, only for it to become an NFL stadium whilst Tottenham play in the states, lovely carrot...

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

The problem is you are assuming they give two fucks about the consequences, I'm not convinced they do. I don't think they are scared of a split. They think regardless of what happens the strength of the brands involved will make it a success.

Agree, scary thought.

 

[14/04/91]

The priority domestically will now shift to winning the league, followed by winning the domestic cups. No longer will you have clubs placing greater emphasis on finishing fourth than on their cup campaigns, which has obviously been the remit given by Levy to his managers over the years.

I’m young and American and can’t claim to know or understand the history of football. I’m also disgusted by the betrayal of meritocratic principles which has always been one of the biggest draws of the game for me. But is it not the case that this new state of affairs — focusing on actually winning things domestically rather than top four, and on doing as well in “Europe” as possible — not essentially how it always was back in the days of the European Cup?

The closed shop nature of the Super League is what I find objectionable, not the effect it will have on the domestic game. It will restore the cups to their rightful place of being more prestigious than top four, which for me is a good thing.

In theory that would be nice. In practice the cups will become even less important to this band of 6.

The huge benefit of top 4 (and 6/7 for Europa League) is that it keeps the league competitive and interesting for longer. Same as the play-offs in the Football League, they've been a massive success.

I don't want to pay for a season ticket knowing that at least half the league season is going to be rendered meaningless.

 

[THX2208]

The hypocrisy from Sky is not just ridiculous but nauseating also. I have absolutely zero sympathy for them. As for City & Chelsea fans crying about fair play...they weren't saying that when they faced bankruptcy and relegation! Sky loved nothing more than giving it plenty about the spending of first Chelsea and then City. They are also furious that we got an invite to the ESL.

 

[PLTuck]

The scenes in Franchise chat when the penny drops that no, we aren't suddenly going to spend £100m on a player. We don't need to. We are in the Super Dooper World Series League whatever happens.

It'll be used to pay down the debt, increasing the value of the club franchise, ripe to be sold to a US franchise investor.

RIP Tottenham Hotspur.

 

[C0YS]

There is actually a very simple way to rectify this which involves breaking a 100+ year tradition: a finals series (playoffs in americaspeak). The top 8 at the end of the season could play off in a series of knockout rounds that decide who wins the league.

Is it an american idea? Yes.
Would it result in lesser clubs winning the title more frequently? Probably.

It would also break the principle of what these leagues are about, which is to decide the best team in the country, it wont have much support from the clubs left in the league. Actually the top 6 remaining will have impacts that I don't think people are considering. Mainly that other teams and their supporters wont be able to take the league seriously. And with the super league I'm not sure that international fan base will fill in that gap (though I do have doubts about how much the international fan base really want to see a super league)

 

[thebenjamin]

The problem is you are assuming they give two fucks about the consequences, I'm not convinced they do. I don't think they are scared of a split. They think regardless of what happens the strength of the brands involved will make it a success.

The clubs will know their players want to play in Euros / World Cup. They'll not want to alienate their own stars or the entire venture is dead before it starts.

 

[JayB]

In theory that would be nice. In practice the cups will become even less important to this band of 6.

The huge benefit of top 4 (and 6/7 for Europa League) is that it keeps the league competitive and interesting for longer. Same as the play-offs in the Football League, they've been a massive success.

I don't want to pay for a season ticket knowing that at least half the league season is going to be rendered meaningless.

It will undoubtedly render the league less interesting unless we’re in a title race, which is a big problem for season ticket holders to be sure. There are certainly many costs of this move not least of which is the soul of the game itself.

I do think you’ll see the Super League clubs placing greater emphasis on the cups however. They’ll absolutely still play youngsters in the early rounds as the league is taking shape and the Super League group stage is going on, but in the latter stages of the season if they’re still in the cups and have fallen off the pace in the league lifting the trophy will take priority over the difference between fourth and fifth.

 

[Cream]

1st thing that jumps in to my head in response is - money talks and capitalism.

It is not popular to most people over the age of 30 - someone here earlier posted some stats on it - a majority of the younger generation (Fifa generation if you will) like the idea. In 5-10 years time, they will be Season ticket holders etc and they will lap a ESL up.

As you say, it needs to be sustainable and maybe this format is not it - but it will happen in some way, possibly even with UEFA's buy in at some point.

If Spurs do do this then I can promise you I will never spend money on Spurs again. From tickets down to an official key ring. I don't have sky sports or BT either. Don't need to these days.

But I do have 2 young children who would have been Spurs fans. Their children probably would be too like my dad and granddad before me. They might be but I won't be actively taking them at the age of 5 like I was. Or my dad was. They can choose when they are old enough to go. And where I live its as likely to be Manu or Liverpool. Won't bother me.

Forget me. Although I am the money for the next 20 years. It's those revenues streams they will lose. God knows how much I've spent supporting Spurs and how much I've spent in 30 years of buying tickets and merch. I doubt it's more than 12 hours of Harry's wage. But point is it's money. And it will disappear quicker than a Thatcher cabinet minister being told the news of the world would like a chat with him.

And even the most ardent of us might lose that feeling in the pit of our stomach as we wake up to a NLD the 7th time in 5 months.

Dilution.

But I will say. This isn't going to happen. Just sickens me we will be remembered as 'founders' Fuck Levy and Fuck Enic.

 

[isaac94]

The beauty of Europe is that big matches are rare, playing small teams from across places unknown are part of the process, making the bigger games feel all the more special, automatically playing big clubs from across Europe with no qualification, several times a year takes away the spectacle, the rare special uniqueness of the encounter. It's not good to have too much of anything

 

[Chattaben]

I'm torn as to how I feel about this for several reasons. This big one is the greed. This is a power move for money, plain and simple. Clubs has suffered huge revenue losses over the past 18 months and this is a possible bailout for the top ones.

I also fear what may happen to the domestic leagues/cups. Right now, I believe its a big unknown. I doubt Big 6 teams will not try to compete for Premier League titles because they already have a seat in the ESL. If this major restructuring happens, I'd love to see something like the FA Cup winners be placed in the ESL instead of league champs. However, as a compromise I could see the Big 6 having to forfeit their places in the FA cup.

The other side of me likes the idea of cutting FIFA and UEFA out of the equation because they are corrupt associations. It basically starves them of the resources they need. The optimist in me believes that this may help reform them a bit if you take the money away. The greed argument works here as well. FIFA and UEFA are just trying to hold onto their cash cow.

I don't agree that this is the end of meritocracy in football. Money buys championships and cups. Ask Abramovich and the Qatar Sports Investments. Did they earn their successes organically through hard work or did they buy it?

I guess in the end it comes down to how I view football? Should football be run like a public good (roads, schools, etc) with government (UEFA/FIFA) oversight and sanctions? Or should the owners of the clubs be free to run their businesses as they see fit without interference? Does Joe Lewis need FIFA and UEFA to tell him how to run the club?

 

[Amo]

It was a money grab, the same as this. Sky cannot hold their heads up high and condemn this new super league .

And pub team five-a-side is football. Just like the World Cup Final.

 

[C0YS]

In theory that would be nice. In practice the cups will become even less important to this band of 6.

The huge benefit of top 4 (and 6/7 for Europa League) is that it keeps the league competitive and interesting for longer. Same as the play-offs in the Football League, they've been a massive success.

I don't want to pay for a season ticket knowing that at least half the league season is going to be rendered meaningless.

That's it really.

You can compare with the past, and I personally wouldn't mind going back to less European places etc. But the expansion of football as a spectacle, the increase in attendances and the 24/7 nauseating coverage that turn football into a soap opera is reliant on having many things to play for. The creation of more European places is part of what has turned football into the behemoth it is. Without that it's very hard to generate that coverage and it will be harder to engage viewers. Football used to be very different, because clubs were community assets, watching the game and trying to win it was itself part of the point, that link I don't think exists in the same way, but I also think it instantly limits footballing interest to a more localised scale. but lets keep in mind, attendances were not good even in the early PL days.