Ex-Manager watch: Antonio Conte

[IamSpurtacus]

ManU keep a cleansheet with a back 4 of Malacia, Shaw at CB, Varane and AWB making his first start of the season to a team we just lost to recently.

He needs replacements no doubt but he also needs to be doing more to hold up his end of the bargain.

is he responsible for Dier hoofing the ball out, or making the mistakes he does? Who should he drop dier for?

United at least have options to bench Maguire. Who do we have? Big Dav? Tanganga?

And lets see how that lot would perform away to a tougher team than bottom of the league Forest.

We have the same problems that we have under defensive mastermind/ defensively minded Jose.

Poch previously engineered a season's best defensive performance with two, actually capable, CB's in the form of Jan and Toby at their peak.

We have bought one decent CB since those two went (Cuti) and another not good enough (Rodon)...our defense is what it is because of the players, not successive coaches who aren't responsible for some just terrible individual errors (DIer vs Liverpool at home, for example)

 

[DanielJohnCosta]

Hi, I'd like to compete in formula 1. Can you help?

Sure, here's a Ford escort with a go faster stripe and spoiler. Crack on.

Benta
Kulu
Perisic
Bissouma
Richy
Lenglet
Udogie

in 2 windows is pretty good, he's been backed more than any previous manager and is continuing to be backed

 

[ralphs bald spot]

is he responsible for Dier hoofing the ball out, or making the mistakes he does? Who should he drop dier for?

United at least have options to bench Maguire. Who do we have? Big Dav? Tanganga?

And lets see how that lot would perform away to a tougher team than bottom of the league Forest.

We have the same problems that we have under defensive mastermind/ defensively minded Jose.

Poch previously engineered a season's best defensive performance with two, actually capable, CB's in the form of Jan and Toby at their peak.

We have bought one decent CB since those two went (Cuti) and another not good enough (Rodon)...our defense is what it is because of the players, not successive coaches who aren't responsible for some just terrible individual errors (DIer vs Liverpool at home, for example)

the system he employs encourages pressure on the defence - it doesn't allow us to build play as we have awful ball retention as the movement and patterns of play such as they are thwarted by having defensive tactics -

over the last 6 or 7 games that has come home to roost goals are being conceded by both individual mistakes and poor coaching - we have been awful at pressing the ball further up the field (which when he arrived was a notable sucess in his tactics having pressure points to press on that has not happened this season ) so we end up conceding space to the opposition and inviting them on to the weakest part of the side -

there is no defensive cohesion at all we virtually play as 3 seperate units and are so easy to get at the goals conceded are often as a result of that - better defenders might help but they will still be open to the same problems in that the system is muddled and we cannot keep the ball as a top side should be able to

 

[Cornpattbuck]

These sites all say the same.

Every Premier League club ranked by their wage bill: Man Utd clear...

Manchester United spend more on wages than Arsenal and Tottenham combined, according to industry estimates. The Red Devils haven't won a trophy in over five years, but they're by a considerable margin the Premier League's biggest spenders on player wages. How about the rest of the league?

www.planetfootball.com

2023 EPL Team Salary Cap Tracker

A real-time look at the 2023 salary cap totals for each EPL team, including estimated cap space.

www.spotrac.com

All 20 Premier League Clubs Ranked On Wage Bill - Page 3 of 3 - 1SPORTS1

Here are the Premier League clubs ranked on the wage bill. The wage bill is updated following the January transfers.

www.1sports1.com

Because most websites are a pile of shite these days and just copy info from one source while hoping to make advertising revenue for themselves... I'd guess...

 

[Spursfan1414]

Look at the fees and wages they are paying to sign these players vs what we spend on similar aged or similar profile players.

You are giving the impression that Conte only signs Donkeys, which isn't true.

Bastoni for example, would've been brilliant and is the exact profile you're saying City and Liverpool look to sign. He was perfectly happy with Kulu and Bentancur. The same can be said for Bissouma.

Saying he doesn't give a shit what happens after he leaves is very unfair too.

But alas, therein lies the difference between those teams transfers and ours. We NEVER push the boat out for the RIGHT players. We always seem to put financial implications first.

When Pep needed a RB, They bought Walker for 50 odd million. We desperately need another world class CB, but I doubt we will spend 50-60 million on Bastoni/Gvardiol for example.

It has made us one of the best clubs financially, on paper, but on the field we are showing huge cracks.

Here is a quote from the man himself that sums it up perfectly:



I agree with what you're saying though in terms of a young squad, it's not impossible and Arsenal have a very young squad which is a prime example it CAN work.

But if we look at past results objectively, the most successful teams are usually the most balanced teams each season.

Not swaying too much too youth or experience but finding the perfect blend. And signing the right player to complement this balance.

Either way, my original post was just my assumptions on what the basic problem is between Levy and Conte behind the scenes, not my opinion on which method is the best.

When it comes to City, sure I agree, but we're not an oil money club so if that's what Conte expects he may as well leave now because it's impossible. But I'm just not sure with Liverpool and clearly that's not the case with Arsenal.

We've signed Ndombele, Lo Celso, Romero, and Richarlison all for pretty hefty fees and wages. Deki and Bentancur cost about £59m together which is hardly bargain basement stuff either.

It's really unfair to put the caveat in about it being the "right players", it's not on Levy that Lo Celso and Ndombele were flops when they were the coaches first choice. In fact that's us doing exactly what you want, going out and securing the top targets of our coach regardless of misgivings.

By all accounts we were willing to put down serious money for Bastoni too, the issue there was that he just didn't want to come and again that's hardly on Levy. I do think if we could've got him for £50m we'd have done it.

Liverpool just signed Gapko for £35-45m, that's not exactly blowing what we did in the summer out of the water financially. They also turned an academy prospect and a LB from a relegated side into the best fullback pairing in the league. Klopp is also playing young talent like Harvey Elliot regularly despite being pretty stacked while Conte refuses to give Spence the slightest chance.

So I'm really not sure the narrative that Levy/ENIC are holding us back financially in the market is fair anymore. We have made big signings recently and signings like Peresic that clearly aren't our normal sort.

And this isn't directed at you but it seems like some people in this thread are acting like Conte is some benevolent force who only wants what's best for Spurs and is being thwarted by evil Levy. When in fact I can guarantee that Levy cares a hell of a lot more about the club than Conte, but he's also responsible for us being in a good place in the long term which Conte couldn't care less about.

 

[Cochise]

the system he employs encourages pressure on the defence - it doesn't allow us to build play as we have awful ball retention as the movement and patterns of play such as they are thwarted by having defensive tactics -

over the last 6 or 7 games that has come home to roost goals are being conceded by both individual mistakes and poor coaching - we have been awful at pressing the ball further up the field (which when he arrived was a notable sucess in his tactics having pressure points to press on that has not happened this season ) so we end up conceding space to the opposition and inviting them on to the weakest part of the side -

there is no defensive cohesion at all we virtually play as 3 seperate units and are so easy to get at the goals conceded are often as a result of that - better defenders might help but they will still be open to the same problems in that the system is muddled and we cannot keep the ball as a top side should be able to

I wanted to say something like this about those talking about the back four UTD deployed last night. We can't get away with having shit defenders because our system is less possession oriented.

 

[Spursfan1414]

is he responsible for Dier hoofing the ball out, or making the mistakes he does? Who should he drop dier for?

United at least have options to bench Maguire. Who do we have? Big Dav? Tanganga?

And lets see how that lot would perform away to a tougher team than bottom of the league Forest.

We have the same problems that we have under defensive mastermind/ defensively minded Jose.

Poch previously engineered a season's best defensive performance with two, actually capable, CB's in the form of Jan and Toby at their peak.

We have bought one decent CB since those two went (Cuti) and another not good enough (Rodon)...our defense is what it is because of the players, not successive coaches who aren't responsible for some just terrible individual errors (DIer vs Liverpool at home, for example)

Yeah I think he is responsible for that, the same way Mourinho was responsible for our defenders constantly giving away penalties/late goals when he asked them to sit in their box and defend for 80 minutes.

If it's a one off you can blame it on the player, when it happens constantly it's a tactical issue.

And clearly Jan and Toby were a different level pairing to our current one but the other main difference is Poch's side actually dominated the ball and spent most of the game attacking. If you've got the ball in the opposition half you're not going to get Dier booting it out for a corner or messing up a header back to Lloris anywhere near as much.

And lastly, Conte is completely inflexible because he's so wedded to his system that people don't even bother to mention that he could change at this time. If Dier were such a problem he could go to a back 4 and play Romero-Lenglet, or drop Dier and go Romero-Lenglet-Davies. He does have other options.

 

[Cornpattbuck]

the system he employs encourages pressure on the defence - it doesn't allow us to build play as we have awful ball retention as the movement and patterns of play such as they are thwarted by having defensive tactics -

over the last 6 or 7 games that has come home to roost goals are being conceded by both individual mistakes and poor coaching - we have been awful at pressing the ball further up the field (which when he arrived was a notable sucess in his tactics having pressure points to press on that has not happened this season ) so we end up conceding space to the opposition and inviting them on to the weakest part of the side -

there is no defensive cohesion at all we virtually play as 3 seperate units and are so easy to get at the goals conceded are often as a result of that - better defenders might help but they will still be open to the same problems in that the system is muddled and we cannot keep the ball as a top side should be able to

But surely that's why he wants better ball playing defenders who can defend... or, I should add, I believe he does... so they can encourage that pressure and then break through it... but it needs really good footballers.

Most fans think our defenders need improving and have done since Toby and Jan started slipping, but maybe Conte thinks the only way to force Levy into getting rid of a few of his faves is to highlight their obvious weaknesses regularly rather than create systems for them...

Maybe he has just become shit, it happens with us but I'm still not so sure and he's been much quieter than usual if he's properly furious etc. ??‍

 

[Johno1470]

Our results from the first 16 games this season vs last makes for interesting reading. 2 points better off, a position higher in the table, lost less games and scored more.

Despite conceding more and looking a bit more suspect defensively, we're in a decent position to push on from January onward. Things aren't as bad as some are making it out to be and hopefully we can see an improvement on the pitch in the coming weeks as well as some additions.

Conte needs backed with at least 2/3 players this window for us to make top 4 IMHO.

 

[chas vs dave]

ManU keep a cleansheet with a back 4 of Malacia, Shaw at CB, Varane and AWB making his first start of the season to a team we just lost to recently.

He needs replacements no doubt but he also needs to be doing more to hold up his end of the bargain.

We lost to said team in a different competition nearly 7 weeks ago. Also, it was away, whilst utds was at home.

In parallel, We drew 2-2 with a team that beat utd 4-0. A lot of time has passed since each game, and form/circumstances change multiple times over a season.

 

[Stamford]

maybe Conte thinks the only way to force Levy into getting rid of a few of his faves is to highlight their obvious weaknesses regularly rather than create systems for them...

this idea that conte or any other manager would throw away points or start bad players to illustrate a point to levy is something you've made up. It's gets mentioned on here all the time and it's complete bollocks. Do people honestly believe that a competitor like conte or any other top professional would do this with the League being so tight

 

[-Afri-Coy-]

When it comes to City, sure I agree, but we're not an oil money club so if that's what Conte expects he may as well leave now because it's impossible. But I'm just not sure with Liverpool and clearly that's not the case with Arsenal.

We've signed Ndombele, Lo Celso, Romero, and Richarlison all for pretty hefty fees and wages. Deki and Bentancur cost about £59m together which is hardly bargain basement stuff either.

It's really unfair to put the caveat in about it being the "right players", it's not on Levy that Lo Celso and Ndombele were flops when they were the coaches first choice. In fact that's us doing exactly what you want, going out and securing the top targets of our coach regardless of misgivings.

By all accounts we were willing to put down serious money for Bastoni too, the issue there was that he just didn't want to come and again that's hardly on Levy. I do think if we could've got him for £50m we'd have done it.

Liverpool just signed Gapko for £35-45m, that's not exactly blowing what we did in the summer out of the water financially. They also turned an academy prospect and a LB from a relegated side into the best fullback pairing in the league. Klopp is also playing young talent like Harvey Elliot regularly despite being pretty stacked while Conte refuses to give Spence the slightest chance.

So I'm really not sure the narrative that Levy/ENIC are holding us back financially in the market is fair anymore. We have made big signings recently and signings like Peresic that clearly aren't our normal sort.

And this isn't directed at you but it seems like some people in this thread are acting like Conte is some benevolent force who only wants what's best for Spurs and is being thwarted by evil Levy. When in fact I can guarantee that Levy cares a hell of a lot more about the club than Conte, but he's also responsible for us being in a good place in the long term which Conte couldn't care less about.

The problem is, Liverpool and City have been doing it for over 5 years now already. We’ve just started to spend decent money on players, and therefore we have a lot of catching up to do. City are an anomaly, and United will always be able to spend but we could definitely keep up with the rest of the league in terms of spend and wages now.

When it comes to players like Ndombele/Lo Celso, we could’ve never known how it would turn out, and that is exactly what I want us to do now. It’s unfortunate that the first two players we spent big on haven’t worked out, but since then we haven’t spent as big and our revenues are improving every season.

Richy and Romero are steps in the right direction, but two good players to a team that needs 7 to 8 of the same quality doesn’t really cut it. If you think the price we paid for both Kulu and Bentancur isn’t a bargain by today’s standards then I don’t know what qualifies as one. Kulu is a £80-100 million player all day in the current market, Bentancur another £60+ million. Yes we signed Perisic, a single player that doesn’t fit our usual model, but you can’t us the single exception to argue the general theme around our club.

The point of backing Conte is that the club needs the same reinforcements he wants. It’s not like we are going to go out, sign players and when Conte eventually leaves those players become useless. That’s the fallacy a few of you have when it simply isn’t true. Just like saying he doesn’t give a shit about us after he leaves is a fallacy too. You’re allowed to move on from a club and still have affection for it you know.

The one thing I can agree with is Conte’s use of the youth around our club. I would love to see Sarr, Gil, Spence and where possible Skipp get more minutes. But we all know he isn’t a couch that uses youth to get the job done. It’s how he has always been and it’s what we signed up for. Just like everything else he is asking for.

Another thing that’s for certain is Conte wouldn’t have signed if he wasn’t promise he would be given his way, and I’m sure he had to make compromises on his side too. But Levy made promises and it looks like he’s going back on some of those now. You can’t play games like that with Conte.

Sorry if I haven’t touched on all your points here, and you’ve made some good points might I add, but it’s 3am here I need to drag my half-asleep ass back to bed.

 

[Cornpattbuck]

this idea that conte or any other manager would throw away points or start bad players to illustrate a point to levy is something you've made up. It's gets mentioned on here all the time and it's complete bollocks. Do people honestly believe that a competitor like conte or any other top professional would do this with the League being so tight

Oh, I know. Had had a few wines and was feeling creative/attempting to solve the puzzle. ?

 

[Clockspur]

The biggest issue for me is that the defence has been assembled over Poch, Jose, Nuno and Conte’s reign - due to changes in system we have a lot of square pegs for round holes.

Take Reggie and Rodon, I reckon both these lads would be starting under other managers but they don’t work for Conte’s system. That’s not Conte’s fault - he didn’t buy them, it’s not the players fault. The fault lies with the bald faaaack who lacks consistency and vision.

Pep and Klopp have been at their clubs so long they know exactly what they need and how they will use them and so waste far less money - Levy does not seem to have learnt that this is the benefit of continuity.

Buy Conte what he wants when he wants it and get him to sign a co tract FFS

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

The biggest issue for me is that the defence has been assembled over Poch, Jose, Nuno and Conte’s reign - due to changes in system we have a lot of square pegs for round holes.

Take Reggie and Rodon, I reckon both these lads would be starting under other managers but they don’t work for Conte’s system. That’s not Conte’s fault - he didn’t buy them, it’s not the players fault. The fault lies with the bald faaaack who lacks consistency and vision.

Pep and Klopp have been at their clubs so long they know exactly what they need and how they will use them and so waste far less money - Levy does not seem to have learnt that this is the benefit of continuity.

Buy Conte what he wants when he wants it and get him to sign a co tract FFS

surely Paratici was brought in for that consistency and vision? Poch didn’t want a DOF so we did away with the structure at the time.

 

[spark7586]

Hopefully not... for every manager we change it means a new lifeline for players like Sanchez, Dier, Davies, Sessegnon, Doherty etc...

I hope Conte keeps pushing behind the scenes.

And Winks ? he needs binned asap not more chances. I would like to see NDoms back to add some much needed creativity but think that ship had sailed.

 

[jay2040]

And Winks ? he needs binned asap not more chances. I would like to see NDoms back to add some much needed creativity but think that ship had sailed.

How deluded are you fella, even considering Ndoms as a Spurs player! That's is no doubt - ' that ship' has fucking sailed and crashed like the titanic!

 

[chrisd2k]

Ia gree that actually we have spent over the last few windows but with the squad the way it is I think we need one massive window where we spend very big and get those out of the club that we don't require anymore. Even if it's just frees to whoever will take them.

Where that money comes from I don't know, but we borrow money for enough property projects to make this work.

After that we can go back to signing a big player every window.

Optimistic rating right? But I think that's what needs to happen otherwise it'll take too long and the players who are good enough now will want to leave and then you have to replace them too.

 

[brasil_spur]

Ia gree that actually we have spent over the last few windows but with the squad the way it is I think we need one massive window where we spend very big and get those out of the club that we don't require anymore. Even if it's just frees to whoever will take them.

Where that money comes from I don't know, but we borrow money for enough property projects to make this work.

After that we can go back to signing a big player every window.

Optimistic rating right? But I think that's what needs to happen otherwise it'll take too long and the players who are good enough now will want to leave and then you have to replace them too.

Agreed.

Outs (take whatever we can get at this point): Ndombele, Winks, Lo Celso, Sanchez, Emerson, Reguilon, Moura, Gil
Ins: Skriniar (or similar top quality CB), Porro/Dumfries (whichever Conte prefers), RWF/AM (there's a few out there to chose from)

Realistically on the outs we only have to worry about shifting Sanchez, Emerson, Gil and Moura right now. The first 3 will be easy enough as there will be takers for the right price. Moura might be a tough one but potentially if we release him on a free then he might well find a team in Brazil to take him in given the time of year for them.

On the ins - this can't be debatable, anything less than CB, RWB and RWF/AM in this window and it's a poor one and we'll struggle with top 4 finish. On the flip side we only really need 3 quality players in those positions to sort us out and keep us very competitive.

I'd assume based just on Sanchez, Emerson and Gil that we could raise £15m, £25m and £20m this window, which would give us £60m added to the remaining £50m share option draw down.

Skriniar should be do-able for around £40m, Porro for £40m and then £30m to spend on a RWF/AM - which should be plenty for FP to uncover another Bentancur/Deki type signing.

I get that this isn't FM, but none of the above is outlandish and is certainly very do-able in this window. It would leave us with a much more balanced squad and we'd then have probably another £50m of player sales in the summer from the others above, to add to our CL money (£50m?) from this season (which we haven't touched yet) and whatever our usual summer budget is (£50m?). So realistically £100-150m in the summer to back Conte with again. Then we can resume to more normal spending levels from next Jan window onwards.

 

[Metalhead]

Agreed.

Outs (take whatever we can get at this point): Ndombele, Winks, Lo Celso, Sanchez, Emerson, Reguilon, Moura, Gil
Ins: Skriniar (or similar top quality CB), Porro/Dumfries (whichever Conte prefers), RWF/AM (there's a few out there to chose from)

Realistically on the outs we only have to worry about shifting Sanchez, Emerson, Gil and Moura right now. The first 3 will be easy enough as there will be takers for the right price. Moura might be a tough one but potentially if we release him on a free then he might well find a team in Brazil to take him in given the time of year for them.

On the ins - this can't be debatable, anything less than CB, RWB and RWF/AM in this window and it's a poor one and we'll struggle with top 4 finish. On the flip side we only really need 3 quality players in those positions to sort us out and keep us very competitive.

I'd assume based just on Sanchez, Emerson and Gil that we could raise £15m, £25m and £20m this window, which would give us £60m added to the remaining £50m share option draw down.

Skriniar should be do-able for around £40m, Porro for £40m and then £30m to spend on a RWF/AM - which should be plenty for FP to uncover another Bentancur/Deki type signing.

I get that this isn't FM, but none of the above is outlandish and is certainly very do-able in this window. It would leave us with a much more balanced squad and we'd then have probably another £50m of player sales in the summer from the others above, to add to our CL money (£50m?) from this season (which we haven't touched yet) and whatever our usual summer budget is (£50m?). So realistically £100-150m in the summer to back Conte with again. Then we can resume to more normal spending levels from next Jan window onwards.

Tbf you are not going to find anyone on here arguing with that. It's just that it never seems that straightforward in reality.