Ex-Manager watch: Antonio Conte

[jimbo]

Its significantly better than Bentaleb and Mason in midfield with Soldado as our starting number 9 at the start of the season that poch inherited and produced drastically better football with.

This is a bit revisionist, he got less out of the players he inherited than Sherwood had managed to - the real turn around didn't happen until he'd shunted out much of the foundation of the previous squad. Players who went to Levy to complain about him, only for Levy to back the manager this time. Pochettino was under pressure, the football wasn't great, and he said himself the narrow win at Villa was a crucial turning point in his time with us continuing.

by my logic Poch instantly caused improvement in the players playing under him not a short spike of 3 months followed by a long painful season of players becoming worse.

This is also a bit revisionist, much like any other manager, he improved some players, pushed others out, some were already top prospects and would likely have improved on their own. He was also pretty terrible at bringing through young players after the initial purge, and was strangely reluctant to let them go on loan for development opportunities. That's one of the big reasons why if he does come back, we really need a good DoF in place first.

What Pochettino did with us was fantastic, the connection with the fans and the team the best I can remember it - yet there is a lot of misty-eyed nostalgia flying around that ignores much of the reality of his time. We were quite capable of putting in turgid displays - it wasn't wall-to-wall exciting football as some seem to misremember it, we often needed a bit of Eriksen magic to get us a point(s) and it didn't always come. The crowd would grow frustrated with sideways and backwards passing, same as it ever was, and we were often naive in big games. Did he do a brilliant job for us despite that? Absolutely. Was it all as perfect as some seem to want to paint it? No, of course not.

 

[Trent Crimm]

I can't see any circumstance why we would pull the trigger early, even if we crash out against Milan - the optics would look terrible!

What'll undoubtedly happen is it becoming the worst kept secret in us not offering Conte a new deal and/or Conte willing to walk away from the club in the summer looking to secure his next employment back in Italy.

Since when has this club / levy given a fuck about optics.

 

[THE SPURSBOY]

what was the trix crypto answer?

 

[Timberwolf]

I can't see any circumstance why we would pull the trigger early, even if we crash out against Milan - the optics would look terrible!

What'll undoubtedly happen is it becoming the worst kept secret in us not offering Conte a new deal and/or Conte willing to walk away from the club in the summer looking to secure his next employment back in Italy.

Part of me wonders if Conte and the club would come to some kind of mutual agreement, especially given the circumstances of his operation and subsequent recovery in Italy. This would give both of us a convenient out, and if Conte was in favour of the idea then perhaps we could meet in the middle re: compensation.

However, given Conte's an incredibly stubborn, competitive, passionate person I just struggle to see a world where he walks away like that. I imagine we'd have to either sack him, which strikes me as unlikely, or wait until the summer

 

[jimbo]

what was the trix crypto answer?

Zulus

 

[cjbyid]

what was the trix crypto answer?

Ac Milan could be d-day.

 

[dannythomas]

I would love Conte to stay. But not completely on his terms. If we go out of CL this week there is no point in keeping him until the end of the season in the hope that we get top 4. With Liverpool now with their act together i think it‘s unlikely anyway. Sit down with him then and discuss a new contract. If he won‘t do that then let him go and bring in someone else to give him some games to work with our players and assess what the summer transfer plâns should be.

 

[Trent Crimm]

what was the trix crypto answer?

A gram of Michael.

 

[THE SPURSBOY]

Ac Milan could be d-day.

imagine we get through and we draw bayern Psg or real could end up likE when we last played Bayern in the CL and embarrassing battering

 

[-Afri-Coy-]

what was the trix crypto answer?

Italian Job = Milan game

 

[-Afri-Coy-]

Zulus

Sawubona!

 

[Ghost Hardware]

I can't see any circumstance why we would pull the trigger early, even if we crash out against Milan - the optics would look terrible!

What'll undoubtedly happen is it becoming the worst kept secret in us not offering Conte a new deal and/or Conte willing to walk away from the club in the summer looking to secure his next employment back in Italy.

Yeah it would be crazy if it happens. But it is true that the cesspit that is twitter are very vocally Conte out already and we have seen that Levy will sometimes listen to the fans if it means listening can deflect focus from him ie Gattuso. Its why Poch will be his choice of manager. Personally i don't see there being any sense in doing it now unless we started dropping heavy in the league and we feel we would have a better shot of top 4 with Mason then Conte. Really tho by that point it would probably already be to late anyway. But of course, who knows whats going on behind the scenes, maybe the players have downed tools. Really the season is fucked.

 

[Joshua shepherd]

imagine we get through and we draw bayern Psg or real could end up likE when we last played Bayern in the CL and embarrassing battering

Imagine we get through and draw Benfica, Dortmund or Inter. Could get to the Semi final.

 

[chas vs dave]

This is a bit revisionist, he got less out of the players he inherited than Sherwood had managed to - the real turn around didn't happen until he'd shunted out much of the foundation of the previous squad. Players who went to Levy to complain about him, only for Levy to back the manager this time. Pochettino was under pressure, the football wasn't great, and he said himself the narrow win at Villa was a crucial turning point in his time with us continuing.

This is also a bit revisionist, much like any other manager, he improved some players, pushed others out, some were already top prospects and would likely have improved on their own. He was also pretty terrible at bringing through young players after the initial purge, and was strangely reluctant to let them go on loan for development opportunities. That's one of the big reasons why if he does come back, we really need a good DoF in place first.

What Pochettino did with us was fantastic, the connection with the fans and the team the best I can remember it - yet there is a lot of misty-eyed nostalgia flying around that ignores much of the reality of his time. We were quite capable of putting in turgid displays - it wasn't wall-to-wall exciting football as some seem to misremember it, we often needed a bit of Eriksen magic to get us a point(s) and it didn't always come. The crowd would grow frustrated with sideways and backwards passing, same as it ever was, and we were often naive in big games. Did he do a brilliant job for us despite that? Absolutely. Was it all as perfect as some seem to want to paint it? No, of course not.

The first few months of poch was terrible.

I remember feeling a similar loss of identity.

It only really started changing when Mason came in vs forest in the league cup.

 

[Yiddo100]

I’m actually quite confident we’ll get into the next round anyway, we’re a different team at home recently.

 

[Styopa]

Yeah, it would be thrilling and emotional in one sense, but there would also be a nagging sense that we're bringing in a manager for the wrong reasons.

I was also excited when we brought in Conte and Jose, but when we were initially linked to them both - I wanted to belive they could transfer their success here - but my gut instinct was 'terrible fit for Spurs'. It kinda feels the same with Poch. Not a bad manager of course, but are we really thinking this through or simply making another knee-jerk decision because it makes sense superficially and from a PR perspective.

What tends to get forgotten about with Mourinho is the narrative that the squad he inherited were ready to win something. I think Mourinho himself helped propagate that narrative. Only in hindsight, when things started going sour, did a new narrative develop.

However, I thought things would be different with Conte because he rejected the job initially. So I thought he would only agree to join if Levy assured him he would back him 100%. And if he was backed 100%, I expected him to succeed here.

It's not that Levy hasn't backed Conte at all. On the contrary, he's backed him to the tune of hundreds of millions. But he's probably given Conte 50% of what he wanted. And with a manager like Conte, who isn't exactly renowned for sticking around for years or developing younger players, 50% was never good enough.

 

[Yantino]

It's not that Levy hasn't backed Conte at all. On the contrary, he's backed him to the tune of hundreds of millions. But he's probably given Conte 50% of what he wanted. And with a manager like Conte, who isn't exactly renowned for sticking around for years or developing younger players, 50% was never good enough.

Isn't this the centre of the whole heart of the issue? money spent but not spent on what was asked for. You could say the same thing for any of the previous 5 or 6 managers.

Spending money, yeah. Badly. Which is so ironic given that that Levy, an astute business man, cannot see that his insistence on controlling the footballing side of things has been and still is a complete and utter failure.

Conte has not helped this situation by being ambiguous about his own future but i firmly believe that he was sold a story (the same as Jose) and he fell for it.

If we are stuck with ENIC and Levy running things like this, i would at the very least like to see a manager that is aligned and committed. I would like to see other changes at the top too, but that is unlikely so an aligned manager/head coach is at least something. The rest we will just to to accept as you can't change that.

 

[Timberwolf]

What tends to get forgotten about with Mourinho is the narrative that the squad he inherited were ready to win something. I think Mourinho himself helped propagate that narrative. Only in hindsight, when things started going sour, did a new narrative develop.

However, I thought things would be different with Conte because he rejected the job initially. So I thought he would only agree to join if Levy assured him he would back him 100%. And if he was backed 100%, I expected him to succeed here.

It's not that Levy hasn't backed Conte at all. On the contrary, he's backed him to the tune of hundreds of millions. But he's probably given Conte 50% of what he wanted. And with a manager like Conte, who isn't exactly renowned for sticking around for years or developing younger players, 50% was never good enough.

I agree on both counts.

I personally was under the delusion that we had a talented squad that was underperforming in the late Poch/early Jose years, but looking back that wasn't the case and we had an awful lot of weaknesses. I think there's an argument to be made that a more positive manager could've got a lot more out of players like Lo Celso, Ndombele, Bergwijn, Foyth and Reguilon, though. Jose certainly wasn't the right manager to get the most out of those signings, even if the older pros like Lloris, Kane, Son, etc loved him.

As for Conte, as you say he's clearly a good manager but just not a good fit for a squad that's not already stacked and on the cusp of challenging for titles (or willing to spend to get to that point very fast).

 

[Styopa]

Yeah it would be crazy if it happens. But it is true that the cesspit that is twitter are very vocally Conte out already and we have seen that Levy will sometimes listen to the fans if it means listening can deflect focus from him ie Gattuso. Its why Poch will be his choice of manager. Personally i don't see there being any sense in doing it now unless we started dropping heavy in the league and we feel we would have a better shot of top 4 with Mason then Conte. Really tho by that point it would probably already be to late anyway. But of course, who knows whats going on behind the scenes, maybe the players have downed tools. Really the season is fucked.

Yeah. I also don't see us gaining much by doing it now. At the moment, we're chugging along just about okay in the league. We still have a shot at the top four because the other teams are similarly inconsistent. We also have many winnable games coming up, so we could soon go on a good run. The Milan game doesn't seem particularly relevant because who expects us to go much further in the Champions League anyway?

As you say, maybe the players have already downed tools, so Levy may be forced to act. Alternatively, maybe Conte himself has had enough of it, in which case both parties may agree on an exit. But otherwise, I expect him to stay until the end of the season.

 

[-Afri-Coy-]

Yeah. I also don't see us gaining much by doing it now. At the moment, we're chugging along just about okay in the league. We still have a shot at the top four because the other teams are similarly inconsistent. We also have many winnable games coming up, so we could soon go on a good run. The Milan game doesn't seem particularly relevant because who expects us to go much further in the Champions League anyway?

As you say, maybe the players have already downed tools, so Levy may be forced to act. Alternatively, maybe Conte himself has had enough of it, in which case both parties may agree on an exit. But otherwise, I expect him to stay until the end of the season.

What it could come down to, and it’s pure conjecture on my part, is that every stage of the knockouts gaurantees the club a higher amount of income from the CL. I’m not sure if this is applicable at this stage of the competition, but as far as I remember it was an odd €10 million extra per stage.

Edit - reported numbers for reference

• All 32 clubs to qualify for the group stages receive a base payment of €15.64m (£13.48m).
• Group stage wins are worth an additional €2.8m (£2.4m), with draws earning clubs €930,000 (£802,000).
• Reaching the round of 16 earns an additional €9.6m (£8.2m)
• Quarter-finalists make €10.6m (£9.1m)
• Semi-finalists make €12.5m (£10.7m)
• And the finalists receive €15.5m (£13.3m) with €4.5m (£3.8m) for the champions