Ex-Manager watch: Antonio Conte

[djhotspur]

Might be unpopular but the love-in and the retrospective "he was right" crowd need some self respect. He doesn't give a shit about us. He played absolutely shambolic football, routinely belittled the club and talked about how we weren't winners whilst pathetically going out of almost every cup competition. Oh, and claiming we couldn't possibly compete with Milan because of their history in the competition like we don't have a better record in it than Conte does.

Fact is if he wanted to still be here, he would be.

Do you ever think maybe

i guess what he meant by 'Selfish' players in his rant...is that they were selfish in not running for the team...not getting back, not pressing, and not supporting attacks.
For me this has been our issue since peak Poch. Its plain effort on behalf of the team. Conte saw that his power to get the players moving was not enough..he'd set out a plan ...and they wouldn't work hard enough to implement it. He knew he was finished and things were going south imo.

His rigidity was a major flaw, but players simply not working for the team was the killer. Mason couldn't counter it and nor will a new manager after his bounce period...unless we get fresh players in and older unenthusiastic players out.

yeah exactly this. You see videos of teams pressing like mad men and all busting a gut to get back and we see none of that from our players.

 

[mil1lion]

i guess what he meant by 'Selfish' players in his rant...is that they were selfish in not running for the team...not getting back, not pressing, and not supporting attacks.
For me this has been our issue since peak Poch. Its plain effort on behalf of the team. Conte saw that his power to get the players moving was not enough..he'd set out a plan ...and they wouldn't work hard enough to implement it. He knew he was finished and things were going south imo.

His rigidity was a major flaw, but players simply not working for the team was the killer. Mason couldn't counter it and nor will a new manager after his bounce period...unless we get fresh players in and older unenthusiastic players out.

Didn't we have some of the highest running stats in the league though? I didn't see that much lack of effort rather I saw a lack of guidance under Conte. I always felt it was lack of quality the issue rather than effort. I mean a lot of the mistakes we've made leading to goals is not effort. It's bad decision making and not being in the right positions.

This for me is the fundamental issue we had with Conte. He needs his players to follow his instructions to a T. If those players simply are not good enough then we have issues. He's not a manager who has the patience to work with a player over time to develop their game. I can't for example see him take Spence under his wing and have meetings with him like Poch did with Rose. It's just not what he does but we're a team full of players who need that type of manager.

I think the effort has gone since Conte left but not so much when he was here. Largely its a lack of confidence the players have though. They are mentally weak, a squad full of players who haven't won big titles or used to playing under pressure at big clubs. We have several but not that many. This is also the other issue with Conte because those players need a lift in confidence. He didn't do that enough for me or come across as a guy who will put his arm around someone and pick them up.

Everything he said was right but he also wasn't the right man to change it. Its like if he took over the peak Poch side he would have probably won things. He just needed a team already built up by a Poch but the one he took over was far removed from that. The principles had already been lost and we needed another man manager to bring them back first. It feels to me now with the stadium open Levy just wants big name managers to pull a crowd and generate more money. That's why he got Jose and Conte, not because they were what we needed.

 

[Bluto Blutarsky]

I'd question whether his approach would do the business at a team of our level.

We are seeing our current level - mid-table. And, I agree, a manager like Conte is going to struggle to turn a mid-table team into a title contender. So would every manager in the world.

Changing managers won't change our level. Changing players will change our level.

 

[Bluto Blutarsky]

This is also the other issue with Conte because those players need a lift in confidence. He didn't do that enough for me or come across as a guy who will put his arm around someone and pick them up.

Sorry - but I am not buying this (and you are not alone in believing it.)

The players actively lobbied for Mason. You would think if they went for the "put-your-arm-around-me" manager - they would turn up for him. If anything we have gotten worse.

Player may not have liked to have been called out like that publicly - but Conte did not single anyone out, so the only reason for a player to get angry is if it hit a little too close to home. And yet, we have too many people, particularly at the board level, but also fans, who think the only thing we need is a new manager with a different approach.

We have no leaders on the team. No players to hold each other accountable. It's a mindset that is not going to change with a new manager.

 

[ultimateloner]

i guess what he meant by 'Selfish' players in his rant...is that they were selfish in not running for the team...not getting back, not pressing, and not supporting attacks.
For me this has been our issue since peak Poch. Its plain effort on behalf of the team. Conte saw that his power to get the players moving was not enough..he'd set out a plan ...and they wouldn't work hard enough to implement it. He knew he was finished and things were going south imo.

His rigidity was a major flaw, but players simply not working for the team was the killer. Mason couldn't counter it and nor will a new manager after his bounce period...unless we get fresh players in and older unenthusiastic players out.

I think there might be some of that, but our problem is deeper than that. If it's just running more it can be solved with fresher legs.
I think what he means is that players dont take risks.
For example a CM doesn't want to show for the ball or pass progressively because when you are under pressure you risk losing it and looking bad.
Or a fullback not attacking the opposition fullback full back etc.
When players dont take risks you can't execute a game plan.

 

[rossdapep]

He was right about what he said and I defended him a lot whilst here.

But

A lot of getting left out.

Why did Conte only start talking about players being selfish after a game we'd thrown away a win and after we'd pissed away CL and PL.

He had previously been saying that they were the best group he'd worked with and that they were great people...

Of course you need to keep players on side but you don't need to go those extremes.

So either he was lying or there was no problem until he decided that he didn't want to be here anymore and decided to sabotage it.

The easiest way of course being to point out all the things us Spurs fans (and media) have been saying for years.

You don't piss the fanbase off but you do get the owners attention and make your sitiation untenable.

I was wrong about Conte. He is a coward.

If things are a little rocky for him, he always attacks the board rather than working on his coaching.

Levy is quite clearly the bigger problem and should never have hired Conte if he couldn't back him all the way. Giving him players like Spence and compromising big important roles was always going to end up with a pissed off Conte.

But lets not forget that this was a guy who wanted out. He was clearly waiting for the season to end and just walk but when he realised the season was going down in flames he wanted nothing to do with it.

 

[Styopa]

It feels to me now with the stadium open Levy just wants big name managers to pull a crowd and generate more money. That's why he got Jose and Conte, not because they were what we needed.

I agree with most of your post, but this is particularly pertinent given where we are at right now. Do we go for star appeal again or act like a proper football club? Because, let's be honest, Mourinho and Conte are exactly who the marketing team would have chosen if given the choice.

Mourinho is arguably the most marketable manager in the game's history. Conte was probably the most high-profile, attainable manager we could have recruited following the sacking of Nuno. They are the type of coaches who attract a following. They are the type of coaches who a certain type of football fan follows from club to club.

The appointments backfired, but for a time, they were massive PR wins for Levy.

 

[spursfan77]

You can think all of that and still believe it would have been better to keep him until the season ends, when he would have left anyway. It was right to get shot of him if there was a realistic alternative to steady the ship until the Summer. Just getting CS to take over was the mistake not getting rid of Conte. It was an idiotic decision and we should have just limped on in pain, rather than cutting the leg off and hoping the wound just healed on it's own.

His time was up not because of what he said about the players, but because of what he said about the owners at the beginning of that rant. Had we kept him on I suspect Levy et al would have remained very nervous as to what might else come out of his mouth. I'm not buying it was him losing the players, more that he spoke out against ENIC and said what many critical fans have said about them.

 

[muppetman]

I agree with most of your post, but this is particularly pertinent given where we are at right now. Do we go for star appeal again or act like a proper football club? Because, let's be honest, Mourinho and Conte are exactly who the marketing team would have chosen if given the choice.

Mourinho is arguably the most marketable manager in the game's history. Conte was probably the most high-profile, attainable manager we could have recruited following the sacking of Nuno. They are the type of coaches who attract a following. They are the type of coaches who a certain type of football fan follows from club to club.

The appointments backfired, but for a time, they were massive PR wins for Levy.

I'm not sure I believe this.

I know Levy is now a panto villain who's the reason for everything bad in the world, but the simplest answer is that he brought in Conte and Mourinho because if you can get top notch, proven league winners into a club like Tottenham then you should. Not marketing, because if anything our "brand" is lower down the pecking order than when we were the plucky underdogs, but because he thought (not unreasonably) that it was our best chance of winning something.

Now, it obviously hasn't worked out too well but it's not like they were ridiculous decisions at the time, in fact I'd say both appointments were received very well by a large majority of fans who thought we'd arrived in the big time.

 

[Hotspur33]

He was right about what he said and I defended him a lot whilst here.

But

A lot of getting left out.

Why did Conte only start talking about players being selfish after a game we'd thrown away a win and after we'd pissed away CL and PL.

He had previously been saying that they were the best group he'd worked with and that they were great people...

Of course you need to keep players on side but you don't need to go those extremes.

So either he was lying or there was no problem until he decided that he didn't want to be here anymore and decided to sabotage it.

The easiest way of course being to point out all the things us Spurs fans (and media) have been saying for years.

You don't piss the fanbase off but you do get the owners attention and make your sitiation untenable.

I was wrong about Conte. He is a coward.

If things are a little rocky for him, he always attacks the board rather than working on his coaching.

Levy is quite clearly the bigger problem and should never have hired Conte if he couldn't back him all the way. Giving him players like Spence and compromising big important roles was always going to end up with a pissed off Conte.

But lets not forget that this was a guy who wanted out. He was clearly waiting for the season to end and just walk but when he realised the season was going down in flames he wanted nothing to do with it.

The whole Conte experience/experiment was a bit mad when you look at the goings on at Chelsea.
Clearly, Chelsea/Boehly would have been better off with Conte, and we would have been better off with Potter.
Amusingly, if we were to end up with Nagelsmann, I’d argue it’s happened again.
I don’t dislike Conte, I thought for the most part he spoke well. But he seemed unable to control himself after bad results. I was really disappointed in the lack of improvement from the team under his tenure.

 

[kent brockman]

We are seeing our current level - mid-table. And, I agree, a manager like Conte is going to struggle to turn a mid-table team into a title contender. So would every manager in the world.

Changing managers won't change our level. Changing players will change our level.

True. But it really is a conundrum how we got 4th last season, and then completely imploded this season.
Especially since we did not lose any key players last summer, and also added a few new signings.
Even if our defence needs massive surgery, the same lot only conceded 40 in 21/22 (but 62 so far in 22/23).

 

[mil1lion]

I agree with most of your post, but this is particularly pertinent given where we are at right now. Do we go for star appeal again or act like a proper football club? Because, let's be honest, Mourinho and Conte are exactly who the marketing team would have chosen if given the choice.

Mourinho is arguably the most marketable manager in the game's history. Conte was probably the most high-profile, attainable manager we could have recruited following the sacking of Nuno. They are the type of coaches who attract a following. They are the type of coaches who a certain type of football fan follows from club to club.

The appointments backfired, but for a time, they were massive PR wins for Levy.

It only makes sense if we start to act like a big club in the transfer window and make big signings. Getting a top manager is only part of the solution to taking the next step. I honestly believe Levy was happy to spend big money on the best manager thinking our squad would be good enough and he didn't need to spend so much on players. Instead we continued to go for opportunistic signings who don't fit a particular system. If you're signing those type of players you need a manager who is more flexible and willing to make do with what they have. No high profile manager is going to do that. Our policy does not align with a high profile manager and any PR win we got when they arrived went up in smoke. Now we're the team that these managers have not won anything with so its not a good look for the club.

 

[Styopa]

I'm not sure I believe this.

I know Levy is now a panto villain who's the reason for everything bad in the world, but the simplest answer is that he brought in Conte and Mourinho because if you can get top notch, proven league winners into a club like Tottenham then you should. Not marketing, because if anything our "brand" is lower down the pecking order than when we were the plucky underdogs, but because he thought (not unreasonably) that it was our best chance of winning something.

Now, it obviously hasn't worked out too well but it's not like they were ridiculous decisions at the time, in fact I'd say both appointments were received very well by a large majority of fans who thought we'd arrived in the big time.

Yeah, most Spurs fans were delighted with both appointments, but Levy should know better than most fans. He's not your average Spurs fan discussing managers with other Spurs fans down the pub. If he was, then fine, appointing "proven winners" like Conte and Mourinho might have made sense.

But Levy is privy to information Spurs fans don't have access to, like the demands of those managers and how much backing he was willing to back them in the transfer market. Why hire a coach like Conte and not give him the players he wants? Did Levy really think Conte would work with what the club gave him? Conte is clearly not that kind of coach.

I think, most likely, Levy panicked after Nuno and hired Conte because he needed to win the fans back.

 

[mil1lion]

Sorry - but I am not buying this (and you are not alone in believing it.)

The players actively lobbied for Mason. You would think if they went for the "put-your-arm-around-me" manager - they would turn up for him. If anything we have gotten worse.

Player may not have liked to have been called out like that publicly - but Conte did not single anyone out, so the only reason for a player to get angry is if it hit a little too close to home. And yet, we have too many people, particularly at the board level, but also fans, who think the only thing we need is a new manager with a different approach.

We have no leaders on the team. No players to hold each other accountable. It's a mindset that is not going to change with a new manager.

I'm talking about lack of confidence on the pitch not what Conte said in his interview. We have a lot of players who lack confidence and its up to a manager to lift those players up. Sorry but there are examples of teams doing better than us who don't have better players or players who have been winning titles. They just have a Howe or a de Zerbi allowing them to play with more freedom and confidence.

That's not a dig at Conte. He just isn't this type of manager. Same with Jose. I think they are both great managers. It takes a great manager to lead a team of top players and manage egos at the top clubs with pressure the way they have. It also takes a lot for a manager to overachieve with lesser players. I wanted us to sign top players for Conte because I know the ones we have are not winners. However the fact is we haven't done that and Levy was never going too. Therefore it was the wrong choice in the first place.

I think you can think 2 things. 1 that the players we have are not good enough and have a weak mentality. 2 that Conte wasn't therefore the right manager for those players. Everything he said was right about the players but there are plenty of clubs with these type of players. They can still succeed with a man manager who gets the best out of them. Look at Dele as an example, did great under Poch and now falling off a cliff. I wanted us to back Conte with the players who have the best mentality but he fact is we didn't. Therefore the reality is we need a manager who will work well with the weaker mentality of our squad.

 

[Bluto Blutarsky]

True. But it really is a conundrum how we got 4th last season, and then completely imploded this season.
Especially since we did not lose any key players last summer, and also added a few new signings.
Even if our defence needs massive surgery, the same lot only conceded 40 in 21/22 (but 62 so far in 22/23).

It's not really a conundrum - we had a lot of key injuries last fall - at one point, Kulu, Richarlison and Lucas were all out - meaning no extra attacking player. Our best CB missed games. Sess has been injured forcing us to over-rely on Perisic. Son's form fell off a cliff. Bentancur missed time in the fall, and then obviously after the WC.

Conte's tactics kept us in the race for top-4. But eventually it became too much to overcome. And when the results were not there, the style of play became the scapegoat.

When Conte left - we were in position to challenge for top-4 - despite everything that went wrong. We needed the players to step up when Conte left - if for no other reason than to prove him wrong. The players folded. A few stepped up, or tried to, but most just did not put in the extra effort for themselves, their teammates, or the fans (or Mason).

 

[mr ashley]

He was right about what he said and I defended him a lot whilst here.

But

A lot of getting left out.

Why did Conte only start talking about players being selfish after a game we'd thrown away a win and after we'd pissed away CL and PL.

He had previously been saying that they were the best group he'd worked with and that they were great people...

Of course you need to keep players on side but you don't need to go those extremes.

So either he was lying or there was no problem until he decided that he didn't want to be here anymore and decided to sabotage it.

The easiest way of course being to point out all the things us Spurs fans (and media) have been saying for years.

You don't piss the fanbase off but you do get the owners attention and make your sitiation untenable.

I was wrong about Conte. He is a coward.

If things are a little rocky for him, he always attacks the board rather than working on his coaching.

Levy is quite clearly the bigger problem and should never have hired Conte if he couldn't back him all the way. Giving him players like Spence and compromising big important roles was always going to end up with a pissed off Conte.

But lets not forget that this was a guy who wanted out. He was clearly waiting for the season to end and just walk but when he realised the season was going down in flames he wanted nothing to do with it.

Personally I think that conte would have been at the end of his tether working here.
I totally understand why he wanted out, after seeing the pattern of recruitment and levy’s interference.
I don’t think anyone believes conte was incorrect in his evaluation of the players, or the club in general. The whole setup makes it easy for players to escape blame and the manager to carry the can.
We absolutely shouldn’t have hired him if we didn’t intend on backing him (levy clearly didn’t), and after the way things ended at inter should have been factored into the due diligence process.

The area where I will apportion blame is his stubbornness in sticking to a system that was failing. Consistently getting outnumbered in midfield and doing nothing to change it falls squarely on his shoulders.

When he got the job I thought then that it could go two ways. I was hoping it would be successful but always knew it would end like this, if levy didn’t change.
I don’t know why anyone was surprised with the way things ended

Anyway, not sure why this has become todays topic of conversation.

 

[Bluto Blutarsky]

. They just have a Howe or a de Zerbi allowing them to play with more freedom and confidence.

Not buying it.

That is why they wanted Mason. What has that gotten us?

Nobody is holding the players accountable. Not the hierarchy. Not the players themselves, and not the fans - with a few exceptions - fans love a good scapegoat. But for the most part, fans are happy to buy into the narrative that a new manager will change everything, and the players are not at fault for the decline. The manager was too mean to them.

 

[mil1lion]

Not buying it.

That is why they wanted Mason. What has that gotten us?

Nobody is holding the players accountable. Not the hierarchy. Not the players themselves, and not the fans - with a few exceptions - fans love a good scapegoat. But for the most part, fans are happy to buy into the narrative that a new manager will change everything, and the players are not at fault for the decline. The manager was too mean to them.

No they didn't, they wanted Mason for now until the end of the season instead of Stellini. You make it sound like they wanted Mason over Conte before he was sacked.

How have I not held the players accountable? I said they are mentally weak so they need a manager to build them up. I also said I would have loved us to get top players for Conte instead. I'm talking about the reality of the situation not what we want to happen. The reality is we do have a squad that is short of quality so we have to work with what we have. Conte wasn't the man to do that because he will always want more. He's a manager who wants to challenge for titles but we have players who at best can finish 4th.

 

[Japhet]

Yeah, most Spurs fans were delighted with both appointments, but Levy should know better than most fans. He's not your average Spurs fan discussing managers with other Spurs fans down the pub. If he was, then fine, appointing "proven winners" like Conte and Mourinho might have made sense.

But Levy is privy to information Spurs fans don't have access to, like the demands of those managers and how much backing he was willing to back them in the transfer market. Why hire a coach like Conte and not give him the players he wants? Did Levy really think Conte would work with what the club gave him? Conte is clearly not that kind of coach.

I think, most likely, Levy panicked after Nuno and hired Conte because he needed to win the fans back.

Who are these players Conte wanted but didn't get as a matter of interest? Bastoni decided to stay in Milan but apart from that I'm struggling to think who else he wanted. Spence was a speculative punt by Levy I guess, but Conte throwing his toys out of the pram was a bit pathetic imo.

 

[carmeldevil]

Yeah, most Spurs fans were delighted with both appointments, but Levy should know better than most fans. He's not your average Spurs fan discussing managers with other Spurs fans down the pub. If he was, then fine, appointing "proven winners" like Conte and Mourinho might have made sense.

But Levy is privy to information Spurs fans don't have access to, like the demands of those managers and how much backing he was willing to back them in the transfer market. Why hire a coach like Conte and not give him the players he wants? Did Levy really think Conte would work with what the club gave him? Conte is clearly not that kind of coach.

I think, most likely, Levy panicked after Nuno and hired Conte because he needed to win the fans back.

I recall Levy tried to get Conte before hiring Nuno. I think Nuno was the panicky hire and was relieved when Conte was willing to come.