Ex-Manager watch: Antonio Conte

[Trees]

I wonder if Levy is not trying to manufacture a crisis that leads to Joe/Vivienne Lewis buying him out.

Levy’s stake in Spurs is worth at least £500m, perhaps more. This must represent a very high proportion of his net worth.

Levy is 60 and must be thinking about how he can realise the value he has created in Spurs in order to finance his retirement and make his children very wealthy.

At present Levy can only realise the value of his Spurs investment if Joe Lewis agrees to sell but Lewis’ motivation is very different to Levy’s: his investment in Spurs is very valuable but it’s only part of his much larger assets, his children are taken care of and he is under no pressure to sell.

So just maybe a breakdown in relations and a fundamental disagreement as to the club’s direction with Vivienne Silvertown (nee Lewis) could lead to the Lewis’ deciding to buy Levy out.

Interesting point. They have been co -owners for over 22 years. Having been a company director with 2 others for 15 + years in a small business, whilst we are still on good terms, we have had some serious disagreements. Its a wonder theres not been news of a falling out before.

 

[EJWTartanSpur]

Thing is it's not intentional, and he 100% cares to his core about the club. I think it's just ingrained in him from the early days when he was trying to model the club in the way Lyon were run. That was probably the best way at the time financially, but he's brought us so far with the infrastructure that it no longer is and it's now counter productive.

Something I posted a few years back …


RE : No striker, I remember writing an article many years ago that Levy followed Lyon's Aulas and his methods of building a successful squad as outlined in Soccernomics. Could be that this methodology is still in place somewhat with Paratici/Levy.

"Here are a few more of Lyon’s secrets. First, try not to buy center forwards. Center forward is the most overpriced position in the transfer market. (Goalkeeper is the most underpriced, even though keepers have longer careers than outfield players; in baseball the most overpriced position pre-Moneyball was pitcher.) Admittedly Lyon “announced” itself to soccer by buying the Brazilian center forward Sonny Anderson for $19 million in 1999, but the club mostly scrimped on the position afterward. Houllier left OL in 2007 grumbling that even after the club sold Malouda and Eric Abidal for a combined total of $45 million, Aulas still wouldn’t buy him a center forward."

"Here are the twelve main secrets of the transfer market in full:
A new manager wastes money on transfers; don’t let him. -
Use the wisdom of crowds.
Stars of recent World Cups or European championships are overvalued; ignore them.
Certain nationalities are overvalued.
Older players are overvalued.
Center forwards are overvalued; goalkeepers are undervalued. -
Gentlemen prefer blonds: identify and abandon “sight-based prejudices.”
The best time to buy a player is when he is in his early twenties. -
Sell any player when another club offers more than he is worth.
Replace your best players even before you sell them.
Buy players with personal problems, and then help them deal with their problems.
Help your players relocate."

 

[robin09]

I can't give you an example of a club exactly like Spurs who have done exactly what Spurs have done, obviously - each club is unique. I do think there are good examples of well-run clubs across Europe though, and some in the Premier League. I think the approach FSG took to Liverpool was better than the ENIC approach, and I don't think Liverpool will be going bankrupt any time soon. It also seems that Arsenal have finally hit upon an owner who has the will to take them back to the top table. It remains to be seen what Boelhy will do with Chelsea, but I suspect it will work out well for them as everything always does. If only our world-beating infrastructure translated to a world-beating team then the dissent towards Levy's 20+ year stewardship would be less. As a wise man once said: "you have an amazing house, but you need to put in the furniture." I do think that no other chairman in world football commands as much fandom from some as Levy, and I do find that a little bit odd if I'm honest - it's almost impossible to criticise him in the eyes of some, and he's most certainly not perfect because nobody is.

I think, as @Timberwolf alludes to in his post, that we have to separate the business Levy from the football Levy. Business Levy has done good work - and that's where his expertise lie, though I don't think it's unreasonable to question the cost-benefit of elements of the stadium build, such as the elaborate pitch set-up and NFL tunnel. Only time will tell if these are good business decisions with a strong ROI or something of a white elephant.

There is also a big difference between wanting Levy to stop having any involvement in the football side and wanting ENIC out. It seems to me that Vivienne Lewis might offer an opportunity for success under ENIC. She's very much an unknown quantity in terms of what her aims, style and approach might be. But while you subscribe to a 'better the devil you know/the grass isn't always greener' philosophy I prefer 'to dare is to do/risk it for a biscuit'.

I think the comparison to Liverpool isn't particularly useful. They have been a relevant successful club far more recently, they have a much bigger stadium, and have a massive global merchandise income.
They weren't starting where Levy did, and they haven't invested much in the infrastructure. All their input has been in player acquisition (which they have had more success in than us) and they hit on Klopp. Before Klopp, they weren't any better than us recently, even with their massive financial advantages. You definitely could say they backed Klopp when they got lucky, and we didn't back Poch when we got lucky. That IS on Levy, I'd agree.

Chelsea were owned by a free spending, Russian oligarch who had to jump ship. The new owner certainly hasn't allayed fears that a regression is imminent, and it's completely expected. How on earth do you change philosophy after a 'money no object' oligarch gets bored/sanctioned/dies?

I just don't see a team comparable to us in 2000, (Newcastle, Villa, Everton etc) and imagine we'd have been better off with any of their owners for the last 20 years.

I DO think that Levy would now be best utilised completely away from football. His projects are matured. The next phase is now bringing the football performance up to the same level as the infrastructure.
Maybe he thinks he is stepping back, but if he's still setting transfer budgets, then he's never really unattached. I would like him to work on marketing and club income. Let someone else set the transfer budgets and long term strategy from youth to first XI.

 

[The Doc]

Something I posted a few years back …


RE : No striker, I remember writing an article many years ago that Levy followed Lyon's Aulas and his methods of building a successful squad as outlined in Soccernomics. Could be that this methodology is still in place somewhat with Paratici/Levy.

"Here are a few more of Lyon’s secrets. First, try not to buy center forwards. Center forward is the most overpriced position in the transfer market. (Goalkeeper is the most underpriced, even though keepers have longer careers than outfield players; in baseball the most overpriced position pre-Moneyball was pitcher.) Admittedly Lyon “announced” itself to soccer by buying the Brazilian center forward Sonny Anderson for $19 million in 1999, but the club mostly scrimped on the position afterward. Houllier left OL in 2007 grumbling that even after the club sold Malouda and Eric Abidal for a combined total of $45 million, Aulas still wouldn’t buy him a center forward."

"Here are the twelve main secrets of the transfer market in full:
A new manager wastes money on transfers; don’t let him. -
Use the wisdom of crowds.
Stars of recent World Cups or European championships are overvalued; ignore them.
Certain nationalities are overvalued.
Older players are overvalued.
Center forwards are overvalued; goalkeepers are undervalued. -
Gentlemen prefer blonds: identify and abandon “sight-based prejudices.”
The best time to buy a player is when he is in his early twenties. -
Sell any player when another club offers more than he is worth.
Replace your best players even before you sell them.
Buy players with personal problems, and then help them deal with their problems.
Help your players relocate."

Ok. Think this argument falls down at the "Replace your best players even before you sell them" for Levy. Maybe if it read as "sweat your best players for as long as possible and ignore your manager and/or any statistical based evidence that differs from your opinion. Just get a new manager instead". I know. I know. Boring etc. If he didn't give us so many sticks to beat him with though.

 

[Japhet]

Feeder club mentality must include Chelsea then. Because that is how they operate to stay within FFP.

That and having a 1.5 billion bung simply vanish, no questions asked.

 

[Japhet]

I think the comparison to Liverpool isn't particularly useful. They have been a relevant successful club far more recently, they have a much bigger stadium, and have a massive global merchandise income.
They weren't starting where Levy did, and they haven't invested much in the infrastructure. All their input has been in player acquisition (which they have had more success in than us) and they hit on Klopp. Before Klopp, they weren't any better than us recently, even with their massive financial advantages. You definitely could say they backed Klopp when they got lucky, and we didn't back Poch when we got lucky. That IS on Levy, I'd agree.

Chelsea were owned by a free spending, Russian oligarch who had to jump ship. The new owner certainly hasn't allayed fears that a regression is imminent, and it's completely expected. How on earth do you change philosophy after a 'money no object' oligarch gets bored/sanctioned/dies?

I just don't see a team comparable to us in 2000, (Newcastle, Villa, Everton etc) and imagine we'd have been better off with any of their owners for the last 20 years.

I DO think that Levy would now be best utilised completely away from football. His projects are matured. The next phase is now bringing the football performance up to the same level as the infrastructure.
Maybe he thinks he is stepping back, but if he's still setting transfer budgets, then he's never really unattached. I would like him to work on marketing and club income. Let someone else set the transfer budgets and long term strategy from youth to first XI.

It's fine for Levy to set transfer budgets imo. What he shouldn't be doing is getting involved in which players we buy or sell. He dug in over Kane to Man City which was fine, but thereafter he should have taken a back seat and let Paratici and Conte do their thing, albeit within the budget the club could afford.

 

[Locotoro]

That and having a 1.5 billion bung simply vanish, no questions asked.

knowing them they probably orchestrated the Ukraine War to get out of paying Abramovich his money back

 

[robin09]

It's fine for Levy to set transfer budgets imo. What he shouldn't be doing is getting involved in which players we buy or sell. He dug in over Kane to Man City which was fine, but thereafter he should have taken a back seat and let Paratici and Conte do their thing, albeit within the budget the club could afford.

The problem with him determining 'what we can afford' is still too open to interpretation for me. He's basically controlling everything still, by saying how much money he'll make available. If there was a transparent agreement that it was X% of net profit, or turnover or whatever other metric, then he wouldn't be able to use the budget to still get his way on a particular signing or sale.

For example, say Conte was happy to sell Kane as long as he could sign a new CF. If Levy disagreed, he could say' the only money we have available this window is what you recoup in player sales'. That would stop Conte signing a young, top replacement. So I don't know what the ideal scenario would be. I'm happy for Levy to carry on, but I think it's fair for us to be more aggressive in the transfer market now. We've done the hard bit.

 

[npearl4spurs]

I love how Trix made a post about there being positive noises and to keep our fingers crossed but everyone’s still doom posting as if Conte already has his belongings in a cardboard box ready to fuck off.

Let's be honest - we get a positive update, but really what's going on at Spurs...

 

[Flobadob]

Really frustrates me seeing people with no patience with Conte and the way he plays. Are you really expecting us to play great football with the likes of Dier, Davies, Royal in our starting 11? The most frustrating thing is our brain dead board seem to have the same impatience when we’re probably 2-3 players away from being an incredible side. Just a signing like Porro for RWB and Perisic continuing his World Cup form and fitness would see us be a far more dangerous prospect. You have to understand how important the wingbacks being productive and the wide CB’s being ball players is to the way Conte plays. We’re lacking massively in the CB and wingback positions right now, if we get them sorted I would be genuinely shocked if we didn’t start to play some great football.

Take some time and watch how his Inter side played out from the back and tell me that’s not fantastic football. Conte is NOT the problem, our thick as pig shit board and some of the players we have are the problem

 

[newbie]

trix, can you just go and slap him on his bald head until he sees sense? thanks from all at SC.

Give him
A hug

Everyone needs love maybe! Maybe appreciating our DL might get the right response

 

[SpursForever71]

He's exactly the right fit for a club such as ours, just not for Levy imo. We have a world class stadium, a world class training ground and a world class front line, so why should we employ a two bit manager? Conte is a serial winner, we haven't won anything of real note for decades, yet he still came here, why? It wasn't for the money it was because he saw what we did have and believed with the right backing he could win here too. He's not asking for billions he just wants a different profile of player to what Levy wants, and he wants full autonomy of who goes.

I've been a big defender of DL in the past because he always spoke about the infrastructure being the problem and when we had that in place things would change. Well here we are, and it's just more rinse and repeat I'm afraid. The only way we move forward now imo is if Levy steps/is moved aside. He can still be chairman and deal with all the commercial shit(he's excellent at it) but it won't matter who we bring in as head coach if they are constantly held back on the football side of things because the chairman thinks he knows better.

100% mate. To think we can find better then Conte, considering what he has won shows how delusional some of our fans are.
The only way i can see us moving forward is for us to be bought out, as ENIC\Levy have a stranglehold, but thats for another thread.

 

[Snarfalicious]

Again it's not about the numbers but how they want the money to be spent. Having said that there does appear to be some movement in a positive direction yesterday, so it's fingers crossed time.

“What have you done with Daniel, Antonio? We won’t ask you again.”

Spoiler: …..

 

[ComfortablyNumb]

Because he likes to win things, and we don’t?

By that reasoning, Jose was a good fit too.

 

[mil1lion]

Conte is a better fit than Jose though. He doesn't typically have big money spent and has history of awakening a sleeping giant. He also never seems to lose the locker room. You would think he's perfect for us , he has the mentality to win things and can work on a reasonable budget. He deserves to be handed the keys or to quote The Usual Suspects " give me the fucking keys you fucking cocksucking motherfucker"

 

[dovahkiin]

Jack Pitt-Brooke
@JackPittBrooke
·
37s
Replying to
@JackPittBrooke
Regarding contract talks, Conte says he doesn't want to talk about it in public, but that he is "really happy at the club" and has a "really good relationship" with the club. "We have 6 months to stay together and enjoy the situation, then we find the best solution."

 

[arthurgrimsdell]

I wonder if Levy is not trying to manufacture a crisis that leads to Joe/Vivienne Lewis buying him out.

Levy’s stake in Spurs is worth at least £500m, perhaps more. This must represent a very high proportion of his net worth.

Levy is 60 and must be thinking about how he can realise the value he has created in Spurs in order to finance his retirement and make his children very wealthy.

At present Levy can only realise the value of his Spurs investment if Joe Lewis agrees to sell but Lewis’ motivation is very different to Levy’s: his investment in Spurs is very valuable but it’s only part of his much larger assets, his children are taken care of and he is under no pressure to sell.

So just maybe a breakdown in relations and a fundamental disagreement as to the club’s direction with Vivienne Silvertown (nee Lewis) could lead to the Lewis’ deciding to buy Levy out.

I think the idea that Daniel Levy is trying to manufacture a crisis because he needs £500 million to finance his retirement is barmy.
Whilst I don't doubt that £500 million represents a very high proportion of of his net worth, I have seen no suggestion anywhere that he used all his then wealth to finance his share of ENIC's initial investment in Tottenham Hotspur Plc as it then was, nor its later additional injections of capital. He doesn't need to realise the (vastly increased, mainly through his business acumen) current valuation of his investment for his children to be wealthy. At least one of them has a lucrative job working within Joe Lewis's business empire. Also the valuation of the shares could be used as collateral to finance anything Daniel Levy or his descendants would wish. You also fail to take into account that Daniel Levy has been remunerated handsomely for his executive rôle within Tottenham Hotspur and his business ventures outside Tottenham Hotspur over the last two decades. I'd suggest he is a very wealthy man even without his mammoth share holding in the club.
It's not a given in any event that Levy can't sell unless Joe Lewis (or now, his trustees) agrees to sell too. Lewis's trustees could for example buy Levy out from ENIC, or allow him to sell his ENIC shares to someone else.
Also, it has always been the case that Daniel Levy has been far more personally invested in Tottenham Hotspur as a club than Joe Lewis (who could be described as a fan from afar at most) or his daughter Vivienne, a self-confessed Liverpool fan who even tried to get a job at Anfield, or his son, also a Liverpool fan.
Now, either of those two might have developed a liking for Spurs over recent years, but neither has held any official position either in the club or in ENIC, and neither currently has any control over Joe Lewis's ENIC investment. That lies with the trustees. They may of course and very likely do have a strong influence, but they won't have control until Joe Lewis dies, and even then, that would be dependent on his will.
I'd suggest that bringing Joe Lewis's daughter into the equation is clutching at straws at the moment. That may cease to be the case if she suddenly appears as a director of Tottenham Hotspur Ltd. but until that happens Daniel Levy is in charge 100%, as far as I can see. Why? Because in the only way that the Lewis family and the trustees care about: the maintenance and consistent improvement in value of their investment, there is no sign of diminishing returns.

 

[Snarfalicious]

Love a good managerial controversy in the middle of a season - Really ups the ante!

 

[Harrier]

Ignore the clock bait title, he sounded reasonably happy and in good spirits so I don’t think it’s all doom and gloom and more that negotiations are still ongoing.

 

[Marauder]

Ignore the clock bait title, he sounded reasonably happy and in good spirits so I don’t think it’s all doom and gloom and more that negotiations are still ongoing.

More like, waiting to see what business we do in January (if any), and then fuck off in the summer to a club which puts money where its mouth is and wants to win. It will be devastating for us, and for our top players, we will be back to the drawing board and I wouldn't begrudge Conte, Kane etc leaving. It has happened to us time and time again whenever a manager wants to push us on. Excuses and reasoning will be dished out by the club though. Sick of it.