Ex-Manager watch: Antonio Conte

[Gilzeanking]

Think he has to accept he’s had the last 2 wrong

Small point , but we also had bad luck in encountering these two sides who are very much in form atm .

 

[Amo]

Is it just me or does it seem that sections of the media are trying to suggest a bit of friction between Conte and the players. Seems like they are starting to build a narrative that just isn't there?

It's a fair question to ask. Not everything is a Watergate conspiracy. Football teams and coaches will be under scrutiny for their performance in a high profile job like this.

 

[bubble07]

The wing backs are the key mate.

That and our CB’s are the biggest weaknesses currently when comparing to what Conte would like in terms of quality.

https://themastermindsite.files.wordpress.com/2019/08/chelsea-formation-3-4-3.jpg?w=1040

If you take his Chelsea title winning team as a example of a 3-4-3, the profile and quality of player was:

GK: Courtios - Good big goalkeeper who can claim crosses and can use feet when needed.
Lloris = fine

RWB: Moses - athletic player who can attack and defend, can beat his man 1v1, can cross and shoot with quality, more of a winger than a full back
Emerson = NEEDS UPGRADING as can’t beat his man 1v1 and can’t cross or shoot and vital position in this formarion

RCB : Azpilicueta - Strong positionally as a defender and can overlap and play the ball well with his feet as traditionally a RB
Romero = fine

CB : Luiz - dominant in the air but importantly very good with the ball, can spray passes easily
Dier = good enough for now imo

LCB : Cahill - dominant in the air but can also bring the ball out and play with his feet
Davies = NEEDS UPGRADING (not strong enough in the air or positionally and not comfortable enough on the ball

LWB : Alonso - real quality in the final 3rd, can pick a pass, can cross, can shoot, can arrive back post late and score goals, can take set pieces
Regullion = ok but not good enough in the final 3rd for me. NEEDS UPGRADING AS SUCH A KEY POSITION IN THIS FORMATION

CM : Matic - defensive ball playing midfielder who can break up play and set the wing backs and attacking 3 free
Bentancur = good enough

CM : Kante - box to box athletic midfielder who is good positionally, who can recover the ball and dribble forwards and pass
Skipp = ok and has potential but for me NEEDS UPGRADING to an e.g. Kessie

RW : Pedro - can dribble and beat a man and cross and thread a pass. Good intelligent attacking movement, has pace, can shoot. Knows when to keep possession and when to transition quickly with the ball
Lucas = NEEDS UPGRADING. No where near consistent enough or enough end product

LW : Hazard - same as written for Pedro
Son = with the right support he’s absolutely fine

ST : D.Costa -holds the ball up, links play, runs channels when needed but primarily a focal point, strong in the air, good finisher
Kane = obviously fine and world class player on his day

Added to this Conte has Fabregas a deep lying creative playmaker who he’d sometimes play in the midfield 2 but also in games he’d play in a midfield 3 to keep more control of the ball, we really lack a player like this, all of our CM’s are a bit too functional.

Key areas to improve to mirror what Conte had at Chelsea:
RWB - upgrade on Royal
LWB -upgrade on Reggi & Sess
LCB - upgrade on Davies
CB? - depending on how Dier does
CM - box to box
CM - deep lying creative
RW - upgrade on Lucas, more of a goal threat
ST - back-up to Kane and someone who can partner him if needed

There is also a chance that he will revert to the 3-5-2 he played at Inter in which case we still need the same positions but instead of a RW we’d need to sign an extra CM and ST

8 players!!!

 

[Jamturk]

I think we are coming to the end of a tactical cycle of the 3 at the back formations and are now seeing the reemergence of the 442 and similar.

The way our WB's were locked up and nulified on Sunday is a big Red Flag for me.

 

[The Scarecrow]

I think we are coming to the end of a tactical cycle of the 3 at the back formations and are now seeing the reemergence of the 442 and similar.

The way our WB's were locked up and nulified on Sunday is a big Red Flag for me.

The 3-4-3 is the problem for me. And maybe the quality of our wide forwards. Not that they're bad, but they don't seem like great fits for that role. But it's easy for the opposition to close off our wingbacks because we only have to CMs and very little threat from the forwards. 3-5-2 is the only way forward imo.

 

[Ghost Hardware]

8 players!!!

Tbh I actually think we need two RWB as I just don’t think Royal or Doherty are even good enough as a back up. So 9 players. Then there is the Kane question, if we don’t get CL will he start pushing for an exit again.

 

[ComfortablyNumb]

I think we are coming to the end of a tactical cycle of the 3 at the back formations and are now seeing the reemergence of the 442 and similar.

The way our WB's were locked up and nulified on Sunday is a big Red Flag for me.

A top coach would see that, and know how to respond. Shame we just appointed one who built his career on three at the back and wing backs. Oh well, if we wait long enough it'll come back in fashion.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

I think we are coming to the end of a tactical cycle of the 3 at the back formations and are now seeing the reemergence of the 442 and similar.

The way our WB's were locked up and nulified on Sunday is a big Red Flag for me.

Interesting comment regarding end of tactics cycle of the 3atb and I do see why you're saying that but Wolves just came and tore us a new one with 3-5-2 so....

Imo it is probably more to do with the fact that our wing-backs are not up to the quality we need them to be. Doherty is Sunday league levels and Sessengon was a passenger for the first 25 mins and also to do with the fact that Sanchez and Davies and Lloris were having shockers.

I don't think 3atb is coming to the end of a cycle at all, Brighton are playing well with it, Chelsea won the CL only last year with it, the issue is we just don't have the quality of players to consistently play well using Conte's formation and tactics yet, same as how Klopp didn't have what he needed to play 4-3-3 high pressing in his early days at Liverpool.

You're right, formations do tend to have en vouge cycles whereby a certain formation is most popular and preferred by the majority of teams like when 4-4-2 was for years and then along came Jose and his 4-3-3 then 4-2-3-1 was all the rage and no-one played with 2 strikers, then 3atb became more popular in the PL since Conte arrived at Chelsea but teams throughout Europe have always used different formations as all formations and tactics have pros and cons and in the modern game teams are changing formation multiple times during a match and have different formations with the ball and without the ball so its not a simple answer.

Conte will know the type and quality of players he needs to make his philosophy work, he's proven many many times that with the right players his tactics can win titles and trophies so I think it really is as simple as getting him the players he needs and letting him a world class manager do his thing.

 

[Timberwolf]

Not sure it's quite as straightforward as '3 at the back is finished'.

Chelsea won the CL with it just last season and there are still a fair few teams in the league that play it: us, Wolves, Chelsea, Newcastle, Leicester (sometimes), Brentford, Brighton (not always but often).

Inter won the league with it last year and Atalanta have used it brilliantly in Serie A the past few seasons.

 

[Jamturk]

The 3-4-3 is the problem for me. And maybe the quality of our wide forwards. Not that they're bad, but they don't seem like great fits for that role. But it's easy for the opposition to close off our wingbacks because we only have to CMs and very little threat from the forwards. 3-5-2 is the only way forward imo.

Add to this that there seems to be a real dearth of quality WB's.

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

It felt so toxic in the ground yesterday. The booing just makes no sense and it's totally counter productive. I think the only time to boo is at the end of the game. Why boo the players at half time if you want them to perform in the 2nd half? It does more harm than good. I would also only condone booing if the players put no effort in. I didn't feel that was the case yesterday. It was just the quality all round but they still worked hard to try and get back and make up for their mistakes. Their confidence is clearly shot and our own fans are making it worse.

Just an representation of how incredibly entitled our fanbase has become in the last couple of years. Someone said we're as bad as the Arsenal fanbase, just without AFTV, and they're spot on. Difference being Arsenal were actually winning trophies, going league seasons without losing, and consistently in the champions league for a couple of decades.

We had 2-3 seasons of being nearly men and now all of sudden some fans think if we don't win every single match we're in terminal decline. Idiots.

 

[spursfan77]

It's a fair question to ask. Not everything is a Watergate conspiracy. Football teams and coaches will be under scrutiny for their performance in a high profile job like this.

But there doesn't always have to be an angle. Sometimes teams just lose games. In this case I suspect it is because we are missing 2 key players and our attackers are misfiring. We'll turn a corner soon, a week ago they were writing articles on how we were the favourites for top four, now it is all doom and gloom. I bet there are more twists and turns. Playing a few games away from home might even be helpful.

 

[tiger666]

A top coach would see that, and know how to respond. Shame we just appointed one who built his career on three at the back and wing backs. Oh well, if we wait long enough it'll come back in fashion.

You honestly think you know more about football tactics than Antonio Conte?

 

[dace]

Do not agree with the booing at a match but I can understand why.
The players could have bust a gut to compete, they could have equalled the intensity of both Wolves and Southampton, they could have got in their faces and battled for the cause.
If Conte could not get the Wing Backs he wanted then perhaps he should play a formation that suits the players we have,.
I am still amazed we have Conte at the helm and really hope he gets what he wants this Summer, even if if is another ten players in, ones that may not not superstars but ones that will absolutely put themselves on the line and fight for the fans.

 

[DOX]

How are we going to get that kind of football with the current team? I think that Conte is doing what he can with what he has. He isn't infallible, clearly but I can't see this attacking, free flowing football under anyone without some more midfield players being brought in.

This isn't a criticism at your post - you are absolutely correct in that the inference was that Spurs would get back to playing football with panache but it's easier said than done. It takes time.

I, absolutely, agree with your points. But I'm sincerely worried about the direction. Admittedly, I'm a massive Ndombele fanboy, something I, probably, don't see eye to eye Conte with. But getting rid of most of our attacking players (Lo Celso, Ndombele, Alli, Markanday & Clarke) and not replacing them this window is lunacy.

I mean... Especially, Bentancur seems like an astute signing, but he is not an attacking player.

I admire Conte, a serial winner, but his safety-first tactics is a match made in "José Hell". I really want to be proven wrong, but I don't believe the combo of ENIC, Paratici & Conte will succeed in turning Spurs into a side capable of winning silverware.

 

[Harrier]

I would prefer him than Lucas to be honest. Bergwijn I think is a decent crosser of the ball and a bit more aware than Lucas. As for defending........no idea.

He did a decent job tracking back and defending under Jose’s park the bus tactics.

 

[Amo]

But there doesn't always have to be an angle. Sometimes teams just lose games. In this case I suspect it is because we are missing 2 key players and our attackers are misfiring. We'll turn a corner soon, a week ago they were writing articles on how we were the favourites for top four, now it is all doom and gloom. I bet there are more twists and turns. Playing a few games away from home might even be helpful.

I just don't read it that negatively or cynically.

In the Athletic podcast (and the Spurs specific one where it's all Spurs fans anyway) they discuss how constantly telling the media his team isn't good enough can feasibly impact confidence. As does setting up the team against Chelsea more negatively than Preston did against Chelsea. If reporters don't talk about this strategy while the team looks severely lacking in confidence then what would they talk about?

When they dicuss their articles in a more conversational and "fanboy" way over the "objective" copy they file for publication, this becomes a lot clearer. I recommend it. 45 minute weekly podcast by really well-connected reporters that's also fun to listen to. It's called A View From The Lane.

Note they also praise Conte for defending his players since the window closed, and that the tone has changed from using the squad as a weapon against the board to protecting the squad against criticism. This was in response to the suggestion he was throwing players under the bus. That suggestion was rejected.

There's no angle. It might be a bad take, sure. But having a bad take is different to having an agenda or ulterior motive.

 

[joey.leone]

Just an representation of how incredibly entitled our fanbase has become in the last couple of years. Someone said we're as bad as the Arsenal fanbase, just without AFTV, and they're spot on. Difference being Arsenal were actually winning trophies, going league seasons without losing, and consistently in the champions league for a couple of decades.

We had 2-3 seasons of being nearly men and now all of sudden some fans think if we don't win every single match we're in terminal decline. Idiots.

I have to agree. It's not just the booing though, it's the groans and jeers when the players pass the ball backwards or try to recycle play. I recall one instance against Southampton where it happened, and it forced Romero into rash forward pass that lost us the possession.

I can understand the frustration at times but we need to have patience with the rebuild. Look at Klopp at Liverpool, there were times in his early reign where they were losing at home to the likes of Palace and celebrating scraping a 2-2 draw at home to West Brom.

Let's give it some time.

 

[DOX]

conte is one of the top 5 managers in world football. I think he’s worth making an exception for.

Besides are don’t think we are particularly ‘back foot’ if you watch us play - not compared to what Jose and Nuno served up.

It’s just the yesterday Southampton pressed the bell out of us and we had no answers.

"...worth making an exception for..." That's the thing, right?

So was José.

I know I'm in the minority, and probably, rightly so. But no, I don't think Conte, or anyone else for that matter of fact, is worth making an exception for. I've followed Spurs since the 90s, and let's just say, it wasn't for the massive trophy hauls. It's for the love of "to dare is to do", front foot, possession-based football. Exclude, George Graham, that's what Spurs is about. I want titles and CL football* as much as the next guy, but we almost did it with Poch, so why deviate from that strategy? Everything went downhill since 2017.


*oh, did it.

 

[brendanb50]

It's a fair question to ask. Not everything is a Watergate conspiracy. Football teams and coaches will be under scrutiny for their performance in a high profile job like this.

Agree with this response but do feel that Conte's priors in relation to how it usually ends for him mean that the press are looking for these acrimonious elements regularly, even when what they're seeing is Conte being frank and a bit passionate.