Ex-Manager watch: Antonio Conte

[Bluto Blutarsky]

If you think we'll finish top 4 playing the way we are then fair enough...but I'd say that's incredibly naive

If you think we will be playing the way we are now, when we get everyone back healthy, then fair enough....but I'd say that's incredibly naive

In the first 7 games of the season - all with Deki playing:

17 points, 18 goals, 7 conceded (+11)

In the second 7 games of the season - none with Deki starting:

9 points, 9 goals, 11 conceded (-2)


Injuries and fixture build-up wore us down. I don't expect us to be hit as hard in a single position - Not only was Deki out, Richarlison has now missed several games, and Lucas has been unfit for most of the season. No team can absorb that kind of injury streak to a single position. And yet, we are still in the top-4.

 

[talkshowhost86]

Well that's not true because he was at Juve for 3.

And what's to say he won't stay for longer than the 2 you state?

Honestly, who would you rather be our coach right now? If you say Poch this conversation is done.

Why do I need to have an alternative to say he's not great?

 

[wrd]

"its not been good enough in recent weeks"

This is part of the problem. We look at things in such short time-spans, and then make snap judgments. Has anything else been going on with the team in "recent weeks?"

Have we been missing any players?
Have we been playing twice a week?
Have we dealt with the death of a coach?


We are in the top-4.
If you go back to pre-season - the BEST people thought we would be is 3rd.
Despite everything going on - we are essentially right where everyone thought we would be - and now we have a chance to be even better.

I am dumbfounded that people think we should be doing better - given everything the squad has been through, and the fixture congestion. We are in good shape, DESPITE all of the issues.

Well first of all, I said the results have been okay but let me rephrase. We have been underperforming ALL season, we have been under perform relative to where we were performance wise at the tail end ALL season, we have gone from under performing to downright poor in recent weeks. I personally had accepted that Bissouma and Spence would take time to adapt, that Doherty was coming back from injury, I expected it to take some time but we're 20 games into and Bissouma is just now scratching the surface, Doherty has not been able to get up to speed and Spence has simply not been integrated.

Yes we've had players missing, maybe we should adapt our system then if we don't have 3 forwards and utilise the stability in midfield to take more risk at wing back. Yes we've been playing twice a week, have Arsenal and Man City not been playing twice a week? Did Liverpool not play the same amount of games as us, Did Liverpool not have Jota, Diaz, Matip, Keita missing. I think it's poor form to bring the death of the coach into things who is responsible for our approach to pre-season, I appreciate it takes an emotional toll but we were under performing way before that, that is just throwing something out and seeing what sticks.

 

[spurs mental]

Why do I need to have an alternative to say he's not great?

You don't but if you think someone could do better then name them because you obviously have a weird hate for our manager

 

[Timberwolf]

Paratic needs to take some of the blame. The squad construction wasn’t right this summer in the sense we’re totally reliant on Kulu and Kane for any creativity. When the former’s out the latter looks isolated has to drop so deep he’s not as effective.

For me the weirdest thing is that Royal is still our first choice RWB.

If you'd asked any fan at the end of last season what the priority position for the summer was, I'd bet at least 90% would've said RWB and that Royal was likely to be sold (or at least made backup).

Still amazed that Conte didn't kick Paratici's door down demanding we signed some kind of upgrade to that position, even if we couldn't find a top class Hakimi type player. Like, if we were willing to drop 20m on Spence who Conte didn't want, surely we could've found some fucker in the French or Italian leagues who would be a half decent upgrade on Royal for a similar price.

I guess we couldn't find someone we felt was worth it, but given how important that position it to Conte's system, I think it's been a serious oversight and the club/Paratici/Conte has fucked up there.

 

[KaribYid]

Why do I need to have an alternative to say he's not great?

Have you just erased what he did last season from your memory?

 

[spurs-r-us]

His obstinance at selection and in not making early subs, presumably trying to prove a point to Levy, is ruining what is actually clearly a well drilled team that knows what they need to do.

 

[spurs-r-us]

For me the weirdest thing is that Royal is still our first choice RWB.

If you'd asked any fan at the end of last season what the priority position for the summer was, I'd bet at least 90% would've said RWB and that Royal was likely to be sold (or at least made backup).

Still amazed that Conte didn't kick Paratici's door down demanding we signed some kind of upgrade to that position, even if we couldn't find a top class Hakimi type player. Like, if we were willing to drop 20m on Spence who Conte didn't want, surely we could've found some fucker in the French or Italian leagues who would be a half decent upgrade on Royal for a similar price.

I guess we couldn't find someone we felt was worth it, but given how important that position it to Conte's system, I think it's been a serious oversight and the club/Paratici/Conte has fucked up there.

I agree, but Doherty is a level above Royal despite not being amazing himself. And yet Conte sticks with Emerson. Conte clearly didn't want Spence, that was a ridiculous use of our limited funds regardless of his personal ability. Conte doesn't play guys he doesn't want if he can avoid it (see Gil, Bryan).

 

[KaribYid]

For me the weirdest thing is that Royal is still our first choice RWB.

If you'd asked any fan at the end of last season what the priority position for the summer was, I'd bet at least 90% would've said RWB and that Royal was likely to be sold (or at least made backup).

Still amazed that Conte didn't kick Paratici's door down demanding we signed some kind of upgrade to that position, even if we couldn't find a top class Hakimi type player. Like, if we were willing to drop 20m on Spence who Conte didn't want, surely we could've found some fucker in the French or Italian leagues who would be a half decent upgrade on Royal for a similar price.

I guess we couldn't find someone we felt was worth it, but given how important that position it to Conte's system, I think it's been a serious oversight and the club/Paratici/Conte has fucked up there.

Because when they turn out to not be good enough we would've been stuck with them on our books and be prevented from upgrading on them when an option became available.

I think it's important to remember also that Paratici was upgrading our entire scouting and analysis department during the summer which I think contributed to us mostly buying PL proven or Serie A players.

By next summer, our scouting department would be up and running and we'll have more options available to choose from.

 

[spurs-r-us]

Nah I'm not having this he doesn't have what he needs spiel again. Heard it last season when people were saying there was no way we had a team to make top4 and it was incorrect then and it's incorrect now. Results wise we're doing alright to be honest, I think we've left ourselves with too much to do in the league to challenge for the title now after the world cup but who knows what condition teams come back in we'll see.

However performance wise I expect so much better by now from Conte and we saw evidence of that today in the 2nd half. Infact we have seen evidence of that in quite a few different mini periods this season. They're games this season where we can't hide behind the idea that we're lacking personnel.

We're asking a player who is not suited to attack to be our RWB in games where we have a 3 man midfield. That is a choice, he has other options, he has Doherty who would probably be playing at a more consistently high level if he was able to develop some match rhythm, we have Spence who could have elevated his game if given the opportunity to play at the level he needs to get to. You develop in life by being put out of your comfort zone and getting comfortable, doesn't matter if it's football or anything else.

We have seen that we have a player in Gill who has quality, who has offered more in games going forward than others have, he keeps being overlooked. Are people really believing today that we'd have been worse off if Gill was next to Kane in the 10 and Perisic got to play at wing back? Are people really believing that we need Emerson to play RWB currently because the other options can't be trusted, Is our defence being better protected from having Emerson because last time I checked in the league we've gone 2-0 down 4 times in a row. 5 games in a row we've conceded the first goal.

I've been behind Conte 100% but I feel like some of you want it both ways, you can't claim that Conte is the best manager we can hope for and then hold him to a lesser standard than the other managers. It's not been good enough in recent weeks. He's been backed more than any other manager in a ridiculously short period of time. He's been given in the space of 6 months; Bentancur, Kulusevki, Richarlison, Bissouma, Perisic and Spence with Lenglet on Loan.

The idea that this team isn't good enough is an absolute joke to me. When it was spoke about last season about replacing Davies/Dier, I remember being chastised for daring to suggest they need upgrading because of how they were performing, now they're not good enough to overcome Newcastle at home to perform better than we have been vs teams we have way more resources than, I can understand losing to Arsenal, United but not in the manner of which it happened.

Conte is a brilliant manager, why is he not been held to that standard, he is the manager who supposedly holds his players to the highest of standards but with him, with the backing he's received, it's still that he needs more? We're not talking about going toe to toe playing expansive football playing City off the pitch here, we're talking performances across a significant amount of games vs teams of varying levels of quality. he's proven he can get better performances out of this team, we saw it last season but now people are gonna roll out the, he hasn't got the players he needs, Nah that is just making excuses, he can get more out of this team and if you don't think he can then you clearly don't rate him as highly as you think you do.

Superb post. There's some imposter syndrome from our fans around Conte. He's not a sacred cow, he's not doing us a favour being here, he's being paid very well to manage a top team in London. I think he's doing a good job, but look how good we look when the shackles are off and we're chasing games. Why can't we unlock that earlier?

 

[Joshua shepherd]

Yeah I think this is where the balance in the conversation needs to be struck. I think what I was hoping for was that we were very close to City/Arsenal by the time the world cup rolls around, with them a little out infront as the fixture list has had us play a lot of our rivals away. Then we see how the dice land regarding injuries and fatigue after the world cup plus whether we can add something in January to try and get us to compete for the title if things land our way. I think we've fallen short of what we could have been capable of to at least put us in that position. Doesn't mean we're not capable of a strong 2nd half of season and I hope we go well in the cups but I don't think we have kicked on from where we were last season thus far despite us adding some real quality to the squad.

You’re dreaming if you think we’re anywhere close to challenging for the title mate. Once you accept that it becomes far easier to accept the results and performances.

If we’re still playing how we’re playing this time next year then I’d say it’s probably not going to get any better, but I have no doubt that this time next year we’ll be in a great place.

You’re asking us to compete with city who have unlimited resources and a manager who’s been there for 5+ years and arsenal who are in the europa league and who’s manager has been there for 3+ years and hardly has any of the same players of the squad he inherited.

We had 7 of poch’s boys play on Tuesday, 7. Until it’s Contes team I just don’t see the point in judging him on performances. He’s getting everything out of the players that he can in a way that he knows how, hence why we’re still in europe and still in the top 4 in one of the most difficult seasons to navigate and an injury crisis.

 

[Bluto Blutarsky]

Yes we've been playing twice a week, have Arsenal and Man City not been playing twice a week? Did Liverpool not play the same amount of games as us, Did Liverpool not have Jota, Diaz, Matip, Keita missing.

Arsenal - rotating players in Europa league - but credit to them, they are playing better than we are right now.

City - I can't tell if you are serious here - we are not on the same level of squad depth as City, and might not ever be.

Liverpool - (checks table) - I am not sure what your point is.

Also - lets look at the other teams playing CL/Europa/Conference

Chelsea - lower in the table
Man United - Lower in the table
West Ham - Lower in the table


I think this mostly proves Conte's value, rather than being some kind of "gotcha"

 

[wrd]

Superb post. There's some imposted syndrome from our fans around Conte. I think he's doing a good job, but look how good we look when the shackles are off and we're chasing games. Why can't we unlock that earlier?

Yeah, I mean if anybody infers that I want Conte gone from my post then I they need to read it again, I want Conte to do what I know he's capable of doing with us. I agree he's doing a good job, I think Conte is capable of better than good and I agree on the issues with us holding back. Personally I think we need to be starting games with that intensity just for a small period maybe the opening 15, if we can push it to 20 great because if we go at teams like that early, get our noses in front with a lot of teams, they'll be thinking about the next game already because they know with a Conte team, if they commit forward we will rip them to shreds. I'm a big fan of trying to conserve energy and trying to use particular moments to expand that energy and I think the 2nd half, you certainly want to use your superior fitness but I think the style which Conte sets us up in works strongest when we have the lead so we need to strike early and then go with it. When teams can sit back, we are not best situated imo.

 

[DelBoyN17]

In Contes defence, I don’t think we’re that far away, yes there’s a lot in our squad who simply aren’t good enough, but we’ve been extremely unlucky with injuries to arguably some of our best players in Romero, Kulu, Son & Richarlison, fingers crossed everyone comes back from the World Cup fit, hopefully some further investment in Jan & we really kick on from January, my only criticism of Conte is his insistence on playing Emerson, it’s a joke, but in conte I trust, we have to give him time & investment, Klopp was at Liverpool for years before he won anything, Arteta has been in charge of that lot for 3 years & is now seeing the fruits of that time, it’s got to be the same for conte, let him weed out the players who aren’t good enough, Emerson, Sanchez, Sessegnon etc, & give him whatever he wants to make us challenge, because I believe he’ll deliver!

 

[RuskyM]

The problem with the "it's long term, we'll be better" is you can't really disprove it - sort of like how every new signing will be good, despite us knowing often that's not the case.

I just don't get how the same things keep happening. We know Emerson can't cross, so why are we insisting on him doing it? Sessegnon's primarily a winger that's prone to confidence swings, so why are we moving him to wing back where he's capable of being rinsed all the time? We know Dier, Davies and Hugo are capable of the odd mistake, so why do we design our game around needing them *not* to make mistakes?

And yes, the schedule is a nightmare, the injuries are bad and The Marine must be a big miss. We can *hope* that improves after the World Cup. My question is why have we seemingly been waiting for after the World Cup since August?

 

[wrd]

Arsenal - rotating players in Europa league - but credit to them, they are playing better than we are right now.

City - I can't tell if you are serious here - we are not on the same level of squad depth as City, and might not ever be.

Liverpool - (checks table) - I am not sure what your point is.

Also - lets look at the other teams playing CL/Europa/Conference

Chelsea - lower in the table
Man United - Lower in the table
West Ham - Lower in the table


I think this mostly proves Conte's value, rather than being some kind of "gotcha"

Look I'm going to be honest, your posts are frustrating me because it feels like you didn't read what I said when you say things like "I think this mostly proves Conte's Value". Like it genuinely feels like you didn't bother to read it at all but still want to have a go about it because I expressed quite clearly what I thought of Conte. I said he was a brilliant manager and I said I hold him to that standard, clearly I believe that Conte has higher value to this team than you do because I'm expecting more from him whilst you're making excuses as to why we've been below the level he's clearly capable of getting out of teams. It feels like you're inferring that I don't think he's good enough to be managing us when it's quite literally the opposite of what I'm saying.

 

[JayB]

Nah I'm not having this he doesn't have what he needs spiel again. Heard it last season when people were saying there was no way we had a team to make top4 and it was incorrect then and it's incorrect now. Results wise we're doing alright to be honest, I think we've left ourselves with too much to do in the league to challenge for the title now after the world cup but who knows what condition teams come back in we'll see.

However performance wise I expect so much better by now from Conte and we saw evidence of that today in the 2nd half. Infact we have seen evidence of that in quite a few different mini periods this season. They're games this season where we can't hide behind the idea that we're lacking personnel.

We're asking a player who is not suited to attack to be our RWB in games where we have a 3 man midfield. That is a choice, he has other options, he has Doherty who would probably be playing at a more consistently high level if he was able to develop some match rhythm, we have Spence who could have elevated his game if given the opportunity to play at the level he needs to get to. You develop in life by being put out of your comfort zone and getting comfortable, doesn't matter if it's football or anything else.

We have seen that we have a player in Gill who has quality, who has offered more in games going forward than others have, he keeps being overlooked. Are people really believing today that we'd have been worse off if Gill was next to Kane in the 10 and Perisic got to play at wing back? Are people really believing that we need Emerson to play RWB currently because the other options can't be trusted, Is our defence being better protected from having Emerson because last time I checked in the league we've gone 2-0 down 4 times in a row. 5 games in a row we've conceded the first goal.

I've been behind Conte 100% but I feel like some of you want it both ways, you can't claim that Conte is the best manager we can hope for and then hold him to a lesser standard than the other managers. It's not been good enough in recent weeks. He's been backed more than any other manager in a ridiculously short period of time. He's been given in the space of 6 months; Bentancur, Kulusevki, Richarlison, Bissouma, Perisic and Spence with Lenglet on Loan.

The idea that this team isn't good enough is an absolute joke to me. When it was spoke about last season about replacing Davies/Dier, I remember being chastised for daring to suggest they need upgrading because of how they were performing, now they're not good enough to overcome Newcastle at home to perform better than we have been vs teams we have way more resources than, I can understand losing to Arsenal, United but not in the manner of which it happened.

Conte is a brilliant manager, why is he not been held to that standard, he is the manager who supposedly holds his players to the highest of standards but with him, with the backing he's received, it's still that he needs more? We're not talking about going toe to toe playing expansive football playing City off the pitch here, we're talking performances across a significant amount of games vs teams of varying levels of quality. he's proven he can get better performances out of this team, we saw it last season but now people are gonna roll out the, he hasn't got the players he needs, Nah that is just making excuses, he can get more out of this team and if you don't think he can then you clearly don't rate him as highly as you think you do.

Last season after the Conference League debacle Conte had the luxury of playing the same XI once per week for the rest of the season. We were in the position that Newcastle is in now. It's fundamentally different than having to play in an evenly matched Champions League group midweek while coping with the worst fixture congestion in football history due to the unprecedented mid-season World Cup.

Due in large part to that fixture congestion we find ourselves in the midst of a genuine injury crisis. Romero, Kulusevski, Richarlison, and Son are all among our most important players. Bentancur and Hojbjerg have run themselves into the ground. Kane is playing twice a week, every week. The players are not robots, they cannot be asked to go full pelt 180 minutes per week. It's fantasy to suggest otherwise.

You say that Conte has been backed, and that's true enough, but consider the state of the squad when he first arrived. The recruitment had been nothing short of a disaster for years under Hitchen and Levy. Last season Conte could barely cobble together an XI of players that suited his tactics.

The summer was a big step in the right direction, but we're still at least three players (RWB, CB, AM) short of being able to rotate properly at every position. Considering the state of the squad upon Conte's arrival, it's unreasonable to think that two windows is enough to completely reshape the squad in his image. Look at how many windows it took Klopp and Arteta to get their sides up to snuff. Even Guardiola with the benefit of financial doping took three windows before his City side took flight.

Despite the unprecedented fixture congestion and injury crisis, Conte has us through to the knockout stage of the CL and sitting top four in the league. The performances haven't been great, but there have been flashes of Conte's football and the reasons why the team isn't firing on all cylinders are obvious. I'm not seeing a long list of managers that would represent an upgrade. Give him the time and backing he needs and I'm confident he will produce the goods.

 

[wrd]

You’re dreaming if you think we’re anywhere close to challenging for the title mate. Once you accept that it becomes far easier to accept the results and performances.

If we’re still playing how we’re playing this time next year then I’d say it’s probably not going to get any better, but I have no doubt that this time next year we’ll be in a great place.

You’re asking us to compete with city who have unlimited resources and a manager who’s been there for 5+ years and arsenal who are in the europa league and who’s manager has been there for 3+ years and hardly has any of the same players of the squad he inherited.

We had 7 of poch’s boys play on Tuesday, 7. Until it’s Contes team I just don’t see the point in judging him on performances. He’s getting everything out of the players that he can in a way that he knows how, hence why we’re still in europe and still in the top 4 in one of the most difficult seasons to navigate and an injury crisis.

I think it depends on what we mean by challenging, by challenging I mean; I don't think we have what it takes to win the title but I think that our goal this season is to keep City honest by trying to be the team who gets closest to them or at least within a couple of points distance from 2nd. I felt this season we were likely to finish 3rd but possibly 2nd if Liverpool underperformed. That's what I mean by challenging for title, where you're closer to 1st than 4th.

 

[tommyt]

If Conte is starting players then he clearly trusts them and we have seen in the very recent past that they are good players, but what he cannot account for that has cost us momentum in games and probably additional points / improved league position / more cohesive performances , are the individual errors and there have been plenty. Not just errors that lead to goals which are of course demoralising, put series of misplaced / timed passes, poor crosses, giving the ball away cheaply inviting pressure and placing us on the back-foot.

Conte is no mug - he will get this right, but will require the necessary upgrades to the squad.

 

[wadewill]

Always thought as long as we were top 4 come the WC we will be absolutely fine, barring an utter shambles here we are

And I stick by that