Ex-Manager watch: Antonio Conte

[dontcallme]

They are excuses.

No they aren't, they are perfectly valid reasons and opinions.

No they are excuses.

No they aren't, they are perfectly valid reasons and opinions.

No they are excuses.

No they aren't, they are perfectly valid reasons and opinions.

There. I've saved people from having to trudge through the last fuck knows how many posts/pages

The whole thing gets discussed in a reasonable manner until this shit comes along and I know people can get frustrated, i've done that myself but maybe it's time to give all that a rest.

Not this excuse again.

 

[bozzaSPUR]

100% this!

Its so far from good enough regardless of deficiencies in our squad.

Totally agree with everything said. Like everyone else I’m passionate about Spurs and enjoyed great games with Poch at the helm. So wanted Conte to be the Messiah and guide Spurs to cup wins and league title (which he may still do) but don’t enjoy watching us at the moment. I would be the first to get in the car and come down from Grimsby to watch the lads but at the moment it is not worth the expense, the drive and the disappointment of watching boring football.

 

[walworthyid]

Totally agree with everything said. Like everyone else I’m passionate about Spurs and enjoyed great games with Poch at the helm. So wanted Conte to be the Messiah and guide Spurs to cup wins and league title (which he may still do) but don’t enjoy watching us at the moment. I would be the first to get in the car and come down from Grimsby to watch the lads but at the moment it is not worth the expense, the drive and the disappointment of watching boring football.

My dear mum was from Grimsby! Long way to travel to watch us sat on the edge of our box making the likes of Brentford look like Real Madrid!

I'm not a fan of conte and never will be I dont think. The style of football just isn't for me.

 

[PeeEyeEmPee]

And we’ll still be 10 points off the Scum led by a “mug manager” in Arteta and Nketiah/Jesus up top. That is so unacceptable i can’t even begin to describe it.

This. The funny thing is that before the season started, no-one in here thought Arsenal were going to be better than us, and there was criticism of any pundits that thought they would. There were also a lot of complaints about us not being respected any time we weren’t being discussed alongside the bigger clubs. Fast forward a few months and it’s “well OF COURSE Arsenal are better now. Arteta’s had 3 years to get his ideas across.”

Arsenal can’t do any more than do their best and hope that it’s good enough. As things stand now, that puts them 7 points clear of Man City. There’s honestly no good reason why we can’t have had a similar season to the one they’re currently having. Yes they’re in the Europa League and not the Champions League like us, yes Arteta has had time, and yes they’ve also benefitted from a couple of timely postponed games etc, but you’d have to be hugely in denial to think that alone explained the 13 point gap between us and them. We haven’t improved on how we finished last season, which I think would’ve been the absolute minimum expectation from every single one of us before a ball was kicked this season. Whereas they have massively.

I think it’s safe to say we’re not going to make up the 13 point gap on them now, we can definitely forget about catching City while we’re at it, and only a fool would bet on us winning more points than Liverpool from here. It’s going to be between us, United, Chelsea and Newcastle for 4th and, given our record against all but the very worst teams in the league, we’ve got next to no chance.

 

[chas vs dave]

And we’ll still be 10 points off the Scum led by a “mug manager” in Arteta and Nketiah/Jesus up top. That is so unacceptable i can’t even begin to describe it.

And? It is what it is? I don't get het up on what is happening over there.

This. The funny thing is that before the season started, no-one in here thought Arsenal were going to be better than us, and there was criticism of any pundits that thought they would. There were also a lot of complaints about us not being respected any time we weren’t being discussed alongside the bigger clubs. Fast forward a few months and it’s “well OF COURSE Arsenal are better now. Arteta’s had 3 years to get his ideas across.”

Arsenal can’t do any more than do their best and hope that it’s good enough. As things stand now, that puts them 7 points clear of Man City. There’s honestly no good reason why we can’t have had a similar season to the one they’re currently having. Yes they’re in the Europa League and not the Champions League like us, yes Arteta has had time, and yes they’ve also benefitted from a couple of timely postponed games etc, but you’d have to be hugely in denial to think that alone explained the 13 point gap between us and them. We haven’t improved on how we finished last season, which I think would’ve been the absolute minimum expectation from every single one of us before a ball was kicked this season. Whereas they have massively.

I think it’s safe to say we’re not going to make up the 13 point gap on them now, we can definitely forget about catching City while we’re at it, and only a fool would bet on us winning more points than Liverpool from here. It’s going to be between us, United, Chelsea and Newcastle for 4th and, given our record against all but the very worst teams in the league, we’ve got next to no chance.

Well, we might as well give up ?. That's the spirit. We have every chance.

 

[Tucker]

Win tomorrow and we are 3 points off city and 1 off "title contenders" Newcastle.

Yes, the football hasn't been fantastic, but it hasn't warranted the hyperbole on here, or in the stadium.

We should definitely be looking up the table and not down.

 

[Albertbarich]

We should definitely be looking up the table and not down.

With Liverpool and United behind us we should look both ways.

Consistency is going to be key this season. It's so competitive.

 

[PeeEyeEmPee]

We should definitely be looking up the table and not down.

We can look where we like. If we continue the way we’ve been, and keep getting the “results” we’ve got, it won’t be long before we have none of our rivals to look down at

 

[Tucker]

We can look where we like. If we continue the way we’ve been, and keep getting the “results” we’ve got, it won’t be long before we have none of our rivals to look down at

That’s the spirit.

 

[jay2040]

I'm in the glass half full camp and looking forward to what the transfer window brings as last time we made great signings that had a direct impact.
I also think that Sons lack of form and in turn lack of goals has been key to the points we have so far. Noted defence is shit though if we scored a few more along the way it would have not been material.

 

[Locotoro]

Tactical instructions won’t vary much though, that’s the point. Formation is just a single aspect to his philosophy.

Whilst I agree the tactical instructions won't vary much the key thing is how the players carry out these tactical instructions from their place on the field.

I think i've now understood the issue Conte has after watching a very good analysis by Nathan Clark on why we seem to start slow and having a conversation about a month ago with an Inter supporting colleague.

My colleague surmised that Inter we're having the same problems that we are having in getting out numbered with their midfield 2 CMs until they switched to a 352. It worked because they had two WBs that could provide defensive and offensive output for 90 mins plus but also because they found a very suitable creative player in Eriksen who could play as a CM.

At Chelsea, they had the same issues when they played 343 when the opposition had a narrow 3. There was the 3-1 defeat to us which had Dier and Dembele midfield behind a very deep dele. They also lost 3-0 to Bournemouth by being outnumbered in the middle.

I genuinely don't think its a case of going aggressive or not. When a team puts 3 in the middle we struggle because we lose the 2nd ball. How do we solve that?

A lot of folks have talked about switching to 352 but that to me plugs one hole and exposes another in attack. We don't have the RWB to play a 352 so we lose our RW output and we lose either Son or Kulusevski. Only way a 352 works is with Kulusevski as a AMRC in the 3 but that still reduces his chances to be on the last man.

Ironically, last season both Son and Kulusevski were playing much more narrow in the defensive phase (541 but more like a 5221) and could help plug the gaps and outnumber our opponent whilst allowing the WBs to close down the wide opposition. This season they seem to operate a bit further wide and it's the WBs that are sitting deeper -perhaps a result of having RWBs more suited to an inverted mindset.

Also our outlet, Son, is practically being marked out the game and can barely get a touch in the game. Last season Son was completing an average of 26 accurate passes per game whereas so far he's operating at 16 passes a game. His xGoals has gone down from 0.45 per game to 0.2 meaning that he's not getting the passes to pass on to others and he's not receiving the ball in goal scoring opportunities. I also notice he's not making the runs in behind as much as he used to.

So the predicament is how we correct our midfield imbalance by not getting overrun and maintain the effectiveness of Kulusevski high up the pitch and bring back the danger posed by Son playing on the last man's shoulder.

This can only be solved by playing a RWB that can operate wide rather than coming into the centre and keeping Son and Deki closer to our midfield two to prevent being overrun.

Just an opinion..

 

[Albertbarich]

I'm in the glass half full camp and looking forward to what the transfer window brings as last time we made great signings that had a direct impact.
I also think that Sons lack of form and in turn lack of goals has been key to the points we have so far. Noted defence is shit though if we scored a few more along the way it would have not been material.

If sonny can turn stuff around I think we will be a completely different team.

His form has dropped off a cliff and it would hurt any team in the world to lose his goals whilst carrying him.

I'm confident we get him scoring and Romero stopping the defensive shit soon.

 

[ajspurs]

If sonny can turn stuff around I think we will be a completely different team.

His form has dropped off a cliff and it would hurt any team in the world to lose his goals whilst carrying him.

I'm confident we get him scoring and Romero stopping the defensive shit soon.

It would certainly help. I was watching Nunez for Liverpool and thinking how much he just imposes himself. Yes he misses many chances but I have to admit I like everything else he does. Just wish Son had a bit more of that about him right now. I think Kulusevski is doing just that on the other side for sure.

Our front three aren't really operating as a unit right now. Wasn't long ago that people were raving about this front three and we saw performances like the one at Villa Park last season.

 

[Albertbarich]

It would certainly help. I was watching Nunez for Liverpool and thinking how much he just imposes himself. Yes he misses many chances but I have to admit I like everything else he does. Just wish Son had a bit more of that about him right now. I think Kulusevski is doing just that on the other side for sure.

Our front three aren't really operating as a unit right now. Wasn't long ago that people were raving about this front three and we saw performances like the one at Villa Park last season.

It's such a huge loss and whilst people are rightly dissecting all of our other faults we dont talk enough about our strongest asset being almost negated this season.

 

[agrdavidsfan]

I’m still just torn on this guy, I’ve looked through a few things and squads average ages and Contes track record and I just don’t think he fits us, he doesn’t develop players although he does improve them or I.e mould them to a system.

That alone is a problem as we aren’t buying ready made players so it leaves us with a coach who doesn’t develop players getting players that he can’t develop to a stage to mould or improve.

If we lose tomorrow it could get ugly quite quickly ?, he’s simply got to put his stubbornness aside and set us out to go after them tomorrow from the first minute, I don’t think or fans are going to tolerate the defensive stuff for much longer

 

[rossdapep]

Apologies, I can't remember who I was debating this with (and can't be bothered to scroll though my alerts) but this is related to the point I was making.

Look at the defences of both Newcastle and Arsenal for both Howe and Arteta's first games at Newcastle and Arsenal respectively.

The majority of these back lines (midfield in Arsenal's case) is completely different to what the coach inherited.

Arteta had 3 years to change it. Whereas Howe changed it in just 2 windows.

Conte has brought in Lenglet on loan and a young wing back.

That's it. There's no revolution there and until he's allowed to change that, he'll fail.

 

[spurs9]

Apologies, I can't remember who I was debating this with (and can't be bothered to scroll though my alerts) but this is related to the point I was making.

Look at the defences of both Newcastle and Arsenal for both Howe and Arteta's first games at Newcastle and Arsenal respectively.

View attachment 120572

View attachment 120573

The majority of these back lines (midfield in Arsenal's case) is completely different to what the coach inherited.

Arteta had 3 years to change it. Whereas Howe changed it in just 2 windows.

Conte has brought in Lenglet on loan and a young wing back.

That's it. There's no revolution there and until he's allowed to change that, he'll fail.

In between us beating Newcastle 5-1 and them beating us 2-1, they have signed Pope, Botman and Isak (who was injured when they beat us).

When they beat us this season, only 1 player in there midfield and attack was signed after Howe was appointed.

Also, Arsenal's team changing in 3 years isn't a surprise, if you look at our game the same weekend, only 2 players from the starting 11 (Kane and Sessegnon) are still here.

You are just making excuses and I say this as someone who wants Conte to stay.

 

[rossdapep]

In between us beating Newcastle 5-1 and them beating us 2-1, they have signed Pope, Botman and Isak (who was injured when they beat us).

When they beat us this season, only 1 player in there midfield and attack was signed after Howe was appointed.

Also, Arsenal's team changing in 3 years isn't a surprise, if you look at our game the same weekend, only 2 players from the starting 11 (Kane and Sessegnon) are still here.

You are just making excuses and I say this as someone who wants Conte to stay.

Exactly the point though.

Newcastle signed a new number 1 and brilliant CB, along with Burn yahts transformed their defence and given stability.

Yes, we only have two players left from that time from when Arteta started at Arsenal but we've also had Jose, Nuno and Conte and the FP era started.

3 coaches and a shift in ideas. In that time we've had messy recruitment and different ideas.

Arteta, in contrast, got to trial what works and what doesn't work for his system, he then established the players he needed to bring in.

Big difference. No excuses.

 

[rossdapep]

Anyway, happy New year to all spurs fans and I hope 2023 is the best for you and your families.

I hope 2023 is a totally shit year for Arsenal fans and no happy New year for them.

 

[nedley]

Apologies, I can't remember who I was debating this with (and can't be bothered to scroll though my alerts) but this is related to the point I was making.

Look at the defences of both Newcastle and Arsenal for both Howe and Arteta's first games at Newcastle and Arsenal respectively.

View attachment 120572

View attachment 120573

The majority of these back lines (midfield in Arsenal's case) is completely different to what the coach inherited.

Arteta had 3 years to change it. Whereas Howe changed it in just 2 windows.

Conte has brought in Lenglet on loan and a young wing back.

That's it. There's no revolution there and until he's allowed to change that, he'll fail.

Think somebody did the math from the Brentford game.

The cost of transfers fees for our starting back 5?

17m.

?