Ex-Manager watch: Antonio Conte

[spursfan77]

Yes but you could see what klopp was trying to do. It's like deciding that you will do something and continuing to do it regardless of whether it is going well or not. I dont like low block football, I think everybody knows this, but if I could see some sort of progress under conte I could live with it. But I can't. From that perspective I don't think it is wise to invest our limited funds in a project that is clearly failing.

Just my opinion.

Last season when we were playing well you could see what we were trying to do though. Why we didn't just take off from there this season is utterly perplexing. Other than him and his coaches just made the preseason too hard or did the players just give their all for him last season and cant be bothered to do that again. The players looked knackered first few games of the season and we've hardly seen them show much energy since other than when having to chase results.

It sounds like you are where I was after 4/5 months of Poch. I thought the football was awful then and couldn't tell what we were trying to do. But I didn't want him sacked, I wanted to see what he could do if given a run at it as I was fed up with changing manager every 5 minutes. It wasn't until the Chelsea 5 3 game that it started to click and then it wasn't until the next season when we had a bigger turnover of players that it got a lot lot better. It seems we got that progress with Conte then it stopped and it has been poor quality wise this season. So we have seen what he can do. It is why now I don't want to change him but give him time. Trouble is, Poch had a long contract and Conte seemingly doesn't want to sign one and more than likely won't.

I'll finish by saying that this will get a hell of a lot worse before it gets better. Poch coming back is a desperation move from Levy. But Conte needs to commit to the club.

 

[Duke of Northumberland]

I’ve got to say it has been an education on football tactics with Mou and Conte, that possession is basically incidental and there were times when it was really satisfying seeing the likes of Man City impotently passing around our low block KNOWING it was fine- then a counter presents itself BANG!

but this season the solidity’s gone and Sons off form and Kulu injured, and it’s dire to watch and with this strange two- halves approach, which must be deliberate. Conceding to lesser teams cannot go on.

hopefully now we get either a change or a proper investment strategy for Conte, although I suspect it will never be enough for him to own results.

 

[Duke of Northumberland]

Last season when we were playing well you could see what we were trying to do though. Why we didn't just take off from there this season is utterly perplexing. Other than him and his coaches just made the preseason too hard or did the players just give their all for him last season and cant be bothered to do that again. The players looked knackered first few games of the season and we've hardly seen them show much energy since other than when having to chase results.

It sounds like you are where I was after 4/5 months of Poch. I thought the football was awful then and couldn't tell what we were trying to do. But I didn't want him sacked, I wanted to see what he could do if given a run at it as I was fed up with changing manager every 5 minutes. It wasn't until the Chelsea 5 3 game that it started to click and then it wasn't until the next season when we had a bigger turnover of players that it got a lot lot better. It seems we got that progress with Conte then it stopped and it has been poor quality wise this season. So we have seen what he can do. It is why now I don't want to change him but give him time. Trouble is, Poch had a long contract and Conte seemingly doesn't want to sign one and more than likely won't.

I'll finish by saying that this will get a hell of a lot worse before it gets better. Poch coming back is a desperation move from Levy. But Conte needs to commit to the club.

Perplexing is the word

 

[Metalhead]

Well, we won't be near any silverware with Conte taking into account 1) our resources, 2) how long his usual stay lasts and 3) his general performances on cups as manager (and yes, I know there is a single cup trophy on cabinet).

Rather be nearly men than faraway men.

Fair enough - I realise that it's a debate that's not going anywhere. We'll have to see what Levy decides to do. I don't think that he's going to give up on this so soon but we shall see.

 

[-Afri-Coy-]

It's funny, because you're exactly the same, just on the opposite of the coin, yet you're painting yourself as the truth and everyone else as biased. It's totally possible that we can both be awful and lucky. Look at the form; it's going one way at the moment. Remember when we were top of the league under Mourinho? Many at the time were saying how poor and lucky we were... the slide down the league caught up with the fact. I'm not saying that's definitely the case here, only that there are data points that indicate we're regressing. The fact he's just hit that stat tells me he is currently incapable of changing things around and improving things. So far. I'm perfectly happy to give him time; I just don't think he can be trusted (or ENIC for that matter).

Im not exactly the same, I’m backing up my perspective and thoughts with analysis and statistics that matter. Yes we have gone behind first for the last 10 games, that’s irrelevant when we haven’t lost 10 games because of it. Do you see what I’m trying to say?

I’m using statistics that back up what I’m saying because they are the most important statistics to take into account.

The football has been dreadful to watch, but if you look at the results, it has still been effective. We have still scored the 3rd highest amount of goals in the league.

If our final position on the table was dictated by going behind first, fair enough we would be in the mud. But we’re not.

I don’t know why you and others are taking it as arguing when I’m just giving counter points to your perspective. Which for a few members, is biased because the football isn’t pretty. But ugly football like we’ve seen can be effective.

We cannot have what ifs about games coming up either, no one can tell the future. We only have the past to look back on a use as a reference point.

Anything can happen during those 90 mins but the result is the most important metric at the end of the day.

 

[FinnYid]

Look at the form; it's going one way at the moment. Remember when we were top of the league under Mourinho? Many at the time were saying how poor and lucky we were... the slide down the league caught up with the fact.

Actually things were somewhat better back then, I think we played better football (hardly fancy, but clearly better than now) but were unlucky in quite a lot of games conceding late on and eventually those late losses caught on and performances turned worse and worse as confidence faded. Now we've been quite the opposite, being rather shite generally, but been able to scrap back after falling behind with impressive set pieces record offensively thanks tuo Vio. However constant falling behind and bad performances seem to caught up with confidence fading yet again. I think we were better with Mourinho at that point than we are with Conte now.

 

[wspur]

The main problem with Conte is, even though I would like him to rebuild and stay with serios backing, it doesn't feel like he's the man to do it and we need to cut our losses.

As a comparison, if we were a trading firm and Conte was a last big trade, we would be forced to close the position soon if the conditions don't improve, and there is nothing to show it will. As the last 4 "trades" have had negative results as well, person in charge would be sacked immediately

 

[Rout-Ledge]

I understand that and that is horses for courses. Some people are happy with decent football and if we win something it's a bonus - I'm not even going to try and argue over that. That's like me getting annoyed because I like listening to metal and you like pop music.

I find the recent trend of separating good football from winning football to be rather odd. Chances are, if we’re playing well we’re also winning. Chances are, if we’re playing stodgy football we will win nothing. If we want to win anything, we first need to start playing good football.

We were playing good football (with room for improvement) last season - it looked really encouraging. The question for me is not ‘do we want good football, or do want to win?’ but rather ‘what has happened between the end of last season and now to stop us from playing well?’

 

[FinnYid]

Im not exactly the same, I’m backing up my perspective and thoughts with analysis and statistics that matter. Yes we have gone behind first for the last 10 games, that’s irrelevant when we haven’t lost 10 games because of it. Do you see what I’m trying to say?

We've gotten 13 points instead, which is shite record. Give next five and our record of ten last games will look worse in all likelihood.

Oh and isn't it 7 points in last 7. And to get those points we needed to make comebacks against Leeds, Brenford and Bournemouth.

 

[AtoubaToothpaste]

Im not exactly the same, I’m backing up my perspective and thoughts with analysis and statistics that matter. Yes we have gone behind first for the last 10 games, that’s irrelevant when we haven’t lost 10 games because of it. Do you see what I’m trying to say?

I’m using statistics that back up what I’m saying because they are the most important statistics to take into account.

The football has been dreadful to watch, but if you look at the results, it has still been effective. We have still scored the 3rd highest amount of goals in the league.

If our final position on the table was dictated by going behind first, fair enough we would be in the mud. But we’re not.

I don’t know why you and others are taking it as arguing when I’m just giving counter points to your perspective. Which for a few members, is biased because the football isn’t pretty. But ugly football like we’ve seen can be effective.

We cannot have what ifs about games coming up either, no one can tell the future. We only have the past to look back on a use as a reference point.

Anything can happen during those 90 mins but the result is the most important metric at the end of the day.

I see. So your stats are the correct ones, and everyone else's are the wrong ones. Gotcha

You don't understand why we're taking it as an argument, when you're invalidating our arguments? Mate, it's only a discussion on a forum. It seems that you think your opinion is the absolute truth and that anyone who doesn't agree is in the wrong for arguing with you. I'm not sure what else to say really. If your whole point is that we should all just shut up and agree that we're in 5th spot with 30 pts, then that doesn't leave much for discussion, does it?

Two recent FACTS: In 2023 so far, we've drawn with 10th place Brentford and lost to 12th place Aston Villa with performances on par with most of the season. Are we to be happy with that because we're still only 2 pts outside the top 4 (while being a game ahead of Man Utd and Liverpool who, if they win, will knock us down to 6th)?

Are we not to say anything until the end of the season when we can twirl our collective moustaches and agree on what our final points tally was?

 

[chrisd2k]

No but I'd argue our defensive options certainly are.

Yeah Scott, Nethercott, Austin, Tramezanni and Wilson would walk into this team ?

 

[-Afri-Coy-]

We've gotten 13 points instead, which is shite record. Give next five and our record of ten last games will look worse in all likelihood.

Oh and isn't it 7 points in last 7.

It could well be worse after the next 5 games, but you or I can’t even discuss it until it happens. I don’t care what’s more likely or not, I prefer to live in the present. And just like people say we cant guarantee trophies just because Conte has won them in the past, you cannot use the past few games as your barometer for the next 5 either.

It might be 7 from 7 but that would make it 23 from 10 before that, which means we lost a single game in those first 10 league games of the season. I thought we’ve been shit for months already?

Either way, you still have to combine both periods of our season and look at everything as a whole as it stands now. We’re okay, the trajectory may be downward or upward from here, but for now we are okay.

 

[DelBoyN17]

I’d just love Conte to change the system, try a 4231 or something else, the system we play atm is brutal, I want him to stay because he’s clearly an elite manger, but my feeling is he’ll be gone by the end of the season, in fact I’d go as far as to say he’ll be gone by the end of Jan should we not pick up a point from our next tough 5 league fixtures

 

[Serpico]

For me …and I guess…I would keep with Conte and buy good-sell crap which is exactly what he wants.

 

[JayB]

We're in a very tricky position because the performances, the recent results, and Conte's contract situation all make it difficult to give him total control over our transfer targets. On the other hand, it's clear that the squad is lacking, and we sorely need improvements.

What we should do IMO is give him two or three signings this January from the same mould as Romero, Kulusevski, Bentancur, Richarlison, etc. Players who are established enough that he would trust them straightaway (unlike untested young talents such as Gil, Spence, and Sarr), but who are young enough that they would fit into a new project if Conte is not at the club next season.

What we can't do is allow the uncertainty to become paralysis. Regardless of who the manager is in the long term, we're crying out for improvements at RWB, CB, Kulusevski's backup, etc. With the right signings we can address those areas now without saddling ourselves with players who wouldn't suit a different manager.

 

[jimbo]

I don’t really understand the ‘is he or isn’t he’ Conte debate. If our problems were new then it would make perfect sense, but we’ve had the same issues for 4 years under 4 different managers. And very similar issues with most if not all of our last 18 managers in recent times.

Conte might not be the right man for us - that’s an entirely fair assessment, I just don’t see how anyone can say he is or isn’t with the least bit of certainty when it’s blindingly obvious the bigger issue is elsewhere - with how we are run as a football club.

Because we’ve done this exact same dance before. With 4 different managers. Over 4 years.

 

[chrisd2k]

View attachment 120630

This is never not funny

 

[FinnYid]

It could well be worse after the next 5 games, but you or I can’t even discuss it until it happens. I don’t care what’s more likely or not, I prefer to live in the present. And just like people say we cant guarantee trophies just because Conte has won them in the past, you cannot use the past few games as your barometer for the next 5 either.

Well I honestly think most recent games and how we've performed on those games is better indicator on how next games will be pan out than his past performances on completely different set ups indicate how he does on Spurs generally.

 

[parj]

And, sadly, we did not win anything. We came up short every year, every competition.

Until we are committed to playing like a big club, we have to look for different ways to beat the top-spenders - and its not looking for lesser versions of the top players.

Look at the only season Conte won the title. Tell me what European competition Conte was juggling at the time. How much did he spend to end up a whopping 7pts ahead of us? Poch just wasnt given enough to allow us to get over the finish line. Now look at what Conte managed with a title winning team the second season when he had UCL matches too.

Conte is a big money spending manager. I have more respect for what Klopp delivers, and what Arteta looks like he might deliver.

 

[AtoubaToothpaste]

I'm not condescending, insulting or any of that nonsense. It’s not me that invalidates your arguments, it’s the rules of the game that do. I’m stating important facts that matter at the end of the day and you aren’t. It’s as simple as that.

You cannot argue objective facts with subjective facts.