Ex-Manager watch: Antonio Conte

[chrisd2k]

Levy destroyed his legacy by not backing him in the market. Pochettino has acknowledged that himself.

The same argument applies to Conte. I want conte to stay and to be backed not cos I love conte but because I have seen this before with poch and mourinho and I know it's not on the manager anymore. And I'm wondering when everyone else will realise this.

Yep you are the only one who can see such things

 

[PeeEyeEmPee]

Joelinton, Wilson, Trippier, Botman, ASM, Pope, Bruno all get into our first 11 in my opinion on current form. Our squad is so poor I'm surprised more people don't acknowledge it.

Would you have preferred them over our players in August? If not, then you've defeated your own argument.

 

[PeeEyeEmPee]

Win tonight and we are 2 points off of Newcastle, playing much shittier football than them.

Keep in mind they have no European football, barely any WC players and barely any injuries to key players all season.

I’m point this out because Newcastle are a common argument for how bad Conte is but they can only managed a 2 point gap on us.

Look how desperate this argument is becoming

 

[Rout-Ledge]

So, we weren't outplayed by city and Ajax? With the opposition teams spurning lots of great chances.

So, we can't be terrible in the league and be 5th? Results never lie, eh?

We beat City and Ajax fair and square over two legs. We also smashed Dortmund in the round of 16 (which you have seen to have selective memory over for whatever reason). Which of Lucas’ goals were lucky against Ajax? What massive injustice was served against Ajax? Did they have a good goal ruled out that I’ve forgotten about? I remember them crumbling under the pressure and us mounting a spirited comeback. Wasn’t the spirit we demonstrated in that game worth anything to you? Just a fluke? The build up to our third goal in the very last
minute was exceptional. We did it without our best player too - Kane was out injured. Liverpool were outplayed by Milan in 2005 but they came back and deserved to win. Or was that a fluke too in your book?

That CL run was pure football joy - the best I’ve experienced in 25 years as a Spurs fan. Writing it off as a fluke is really sad. I feel sorry for you.

 

[chrisd2k]

Would Poch take the job with no promises having previously said the same as Conte is now?

Not that I want Poch back. Or Conte with breaking all the wrong records recently. Or Levy, and defo not Enic.

Shit

 

[Nerine]

This is a decent post asking the right questions that's worth replying to.

You are right in that Conte has been backed to a decent degree. I do believe we could and should have done more in the Summer especially when we had pulled the £150mil to do just that. The issue is that it was only the starting point. AC was happy with it because he was expecting the backing to keep coming but now Levy has decided he doesn't want to keep going in this direction. Last season we were thread bare but we only had one game per week and a decent enough starting 11 to play once per week. This season we've been playing 2-3 games in the same amount of time and it's taking it's toll on the squad. Yes he was backed but not enough that he could sustain last seasons form playing twice as many games. He understood this but again expected us to keep strengthening every window until we were able to compete. He isn't complaining about what we did last Summer, his rants right now are about what we are looking to do going forward and it's not matching his ambition or what he was expecting based on previous conversations with Levy when he took the job. As he keeps saying "it's a project" but right now it's a project that half way through has had the parameters and funding changed from the original brief.

The football is poor right now, no one can deny this but there have been circumstances to explain some of this, and it doesn't change that once again Levy has moved the goalposts on yet another manager.

You are also bang on with the fact at some point we need to stick rather than twist and bust, and for me a manager who is willing to ask "why are we settling for second best?" is the man that we should stick with.

Can everyone read this?

 

[parj]

The fact that people are saying Newcastle have a better squad than us does not reflect favourably on Conte at all. This would not have even been a conversation a year ago when they were bottom but Howe has done a genuinely brilliant coaching job, improving lots of players (Almiron) and getting other average ones to perform well in a functional system. How many of our players has Conte improved? Both managers have spent similar amounts since they joined so it’s inexcusable for the Newcastle squad to have drastically improved so much in quality yet ours is supposedly just as shit as it has been for years. Either he’s got recruitment wrong with Paratici or he’s performed a worse coaching job than Howe. Make your mind up.

The Almiron point shows why managers need to be able to use the players they have. It's amazing how Howe has swapped squads and all maintained his style of football and it's playing very well with squad that most would agree was inferior to us.

Conte style means it's so difficult to adapt a team to his way unless they were already that style.

 

[mil1lion]

Here is how I look at it: Romero aside as he was really signed the summer before last, we spent £122m in the summer.

to put that into perspective, Chelsea are about to spend £130m on one player after spending £200m + in the summer.

Meanwhile we’re hoping Levy can find enough change down the back of the sofa to buy Porro

We can't look at what Chelsea spend. Besides it's not about the money and Conte hasn't always had a lot spent on his squad. What matters is getting the right players for him and his system. We didnt spend much on Kulusevski or Bentancur while we got Perisic on a free (even Bissouma was low). Nothing wrong if we get another 4 deals like that this year in the positions in most need.

 

[PeeEyeEmPee]

The fact that people are saying Newcastle have a better squad than us does not reflect favourably on Conte at all. This would not have even been a conversation a year ago when they were bottom but Howe has done a genuinely brilliant coaching job, improving lots of players (Almiron) and getting other average ones to perform well in a functional system. How many of our players has Conte improved? Both managers have spent similar amounts since they joined so it’s inexcusable for the Newcastle squad to have drastically improved so much in quality yet ours is supposedly just as shit as it has been for years. Either he’s got recruitment wrong with Paratici or he’s performed a worse coaching job than Howe. Make your mind up.

Yep. No BS excuses about "the same players that let successive managers down" either. Almiron, Joelinton, Schar, Sain-Maximan etc are all on their 4th or 5th season and 3rd or 4th manager now, and he's managed to improve them.

Yet ours are all so uncoachable...

 

[Clockspur]

We can't look at what Chelsea spend. Besides it's not about the money and Conte hasn't always had a lot spent on his squad. What matters is getting the right players for him and his system. We didnt spend much on Kulusevski or Bentancur while we got Perisic on a free (even Bissouma was low). Nothing wrong if we get another 4 deals like that this year in the positions in most need.

Sure but when your finances are finite don’t spend £20m on Djed Spence when the manager doesn’t want him and has no intention of playing him.

I think we can look at Chelsea:

Todd Boehly wealth - 5.3bn dollars
Joe Lewis wealth - 5.1bn dollars

Spurs fans pay more money to watch their team than Chelsea fans. So what’s the difference - it’s simple, Todd Boehly wants to win, Joe Lewis doesn’t care.

Chelsea have been horrendous this season and look like they have spent poorly in the summer in particular - Todd Boehly though will back them again by splashing big money on a fantastic player.

what has building that stadium actually changed in terms of our on the pitch ambitions - nada

 

[Clockspur]

Yep. No BS excuses about "the same players that let successive managers down" either. Almiron, Joelinton, Schar, Sain-Maximan etc are all on their 4th or 5th season and 3rd or 4th manager now, and he's managed to improve them.

Yet ours are all so uncoachable...

He has managed to improve them by sticking better players around them. Why is this so hard to understand.

 

[HildoSpur]

Would you have preferred them over our players in August? If not, then you've defeated your own argument.

I would have taken Joelinton, Bosman,Trippier, Pope, ASM and Bruno in August in a heartbeat yes. Our defence is and has been shockingly bad and Joelinton and ASM would be great options for us in the squad, Bruno would walk into our midfield as well. As others have said though, lets stop with the squad lists.

 

[PeeEyeEmPee]

He has managed to improve them by sticking better players around them. Why is this so hard to understand.

Romero, Kulusevski, Bentancur, Richarlison, Perisic, Bissouma and Lenglet are not better players?

 

[chas vs dave]

We beat City and Ajax fair and square over two legs. We also smashed Dortmund in the round of 16 (which you have seen to have selective memory over for whatever reason). Which of Lucas’ goals were lucky against Ajax? What massive injustice was served against Ajax? Did they have a good goal ruled out that I’ve forgotten about? I remember them crumbling under the pressure and us mounting a spirited comeback. Wasn’t the spirit we demonstrated in that game worth anything to you? Just a fluke? The build up to our third goal in the very last
minute was exceptional. We did it without our best player too - Kane was out injured. Liverpool were outplayed by Milan in 2005 but they came back and deserved to win. Or was that a fluke too in your book?

That CL run was pure football joy - the best I’ve experienced in 25 years as a Spurs fan. Writing it off as a fluke is really sad. I feel sorry for you.

Perhaps cut the sanctimonious tone.

I've been going to every game for 25 years.

Mouras third was a punt an a flick on.

Yes it was great, however you can't deny that we completely rode our luck in the quarters and semi finals.

 

[Ledders Army]

Win tonight and we are 2 points off of Newcastle, playing much shittier football than them.

Keep in mind they have no European football, barely any WC players and barely any injuries to key players all season.

I’m point this out because Newcastle are a common argument for how bad Conte is but they can only managed a 2 point gap on us.

This is a very important point. This season is like no other because of the World Cup & fixture congestion it’s caused. Add to that our injuries & fact that other than city our players played the most minutes in the World Cup.

Conte’s record when he has 1 game a week to focus on being so much better than when he has 2/3 is well documented.

We need to ride this blip out & back Conte in Jan & the summer.

Levy & the board may disagree & as I fully expect us to lose to Palace getting rid of Conte will be the easy option.

 

[spurs mental]

Now the narrative is we haven’t backed Conte at all.

I haven't seen one person say he hasn't been backed at all.

The posts are saying we need to continue to back him. Or back him better. For the most part hes been backed well, to a degree.

You don’t fluke your way to a champions league final. Doesn’t happen. You play a number of the best sides in the world, twice each. Look at every team in the last twenty years that’s reached a CL final. Every single one was a very good side who reached the final on merit.

We got through with a late goal away at Barca and partly thanks to a late PSV goal v Inter from the group stages.

We smashed Dortmund.

We got through on away goals v City after they had a goal disallowed in the 96th minute (rightly or not its still fact)

We got through on away goals v Ajax thanks to a miracle second half from Lucas Moura, and scored our third goal in the 96th minute. Ajax hit the woodwork 3 or 4 times throughout the 2 legs.

In the mean time we only managed to scrape 4th in the league on the last day thanks to a 2-2 draw with Everton. Had we not been so good in the first 5 months of the season, and Arsenal bottling it numerous times we handed them opportunities, we'd have finished 6th or 7th.

It wasn't a fluke, but luck was definitely, definitely on our side throughout the run.

 

[PeeEyeEmPee]

Sure but when your finances are finite don’t spend £20m on Djed Spence when the manager doesn’t want him and has no intention of playing him.

I think we can look at Chelsea:

Todd Boehly wealth - 5.3bn dollars
Joe Lewis wealth - 5.1bn dollars

Spurs fans pay more money to watch their team than Chelsea fans. So what’s the difference - it’s simple, Todd Boehly wants to win, Joe Lewis doesn’t care.

Chelsea have been horrendous this season and look like they have spent poorly in the summer in particular - Todd Boehly though will back them again by splashing big money on a fantastic player.

what has building that stadium actually changed in terms of our on the pitch ambitions - nada

Actually, when your finances are finite, you realise you can't spend £50m+ on every player, which sometimes means spending £20m on a player with potential that you hope can develop into a £50m+ player.

Chelsea are a terrible example to compare us with actually, given that their position has been gained by nearly two decades of being able to outspend almost everyone else in the sport, including a long period where there was no almost.

 

[brasil_spur]

I just want to know where all this "Conte hasn't been backed" energy was in August, when most people thought we'd had a good transfer window

I don't think anyone on here was really rating the window higher than an 8.

We probably all misjudged the fact that Spence was not a Conte signing, so effectively we didn't sign a RWB to help us this season.

Then we've had injuries to Richarlison - our 2nd highest player signing. Injuries to Deki - the one position (cover at RW/AM) that we didn't out in the summer.

There's then been a drop off in form with Dier, Davies and to an extent also Romero all looking shakier at the back this season.

But Conte was backed in the summer, perhaps on reflection it was more of a 7/10 window.

The Conte not being backed talk right now is current hypothetical based on ITK and other rumblings about Levy not fully backing him in Jan and also that we've had very little, if any, serious links to players so far and it's already the 4th.

 

[PeeEyeEmPee]

I haven't seen one person say he hasn't been backed at all.

The posts are saying we need to continue to back him. Or back him better. For the most part hes been backed well, to a degree.

There's a lot of goalpost-moving going on in here. After the Brentford and (especially) Villa games, all the complaining was about how he hadn't been backed, we hadn't bought the players he'd asked for, and as such he couldn't be expected to do any more with such a shit squad of players that had let down a string of managers before him. And now it's changed to "no, we're just saying he needs to continue to be backed".

Am I going mad here?

 

[HildoSpur]

There's a lot of goalpost-moving going on in here. After the Brentford and (especially) Villa games, all the complaining was about how he hadn't been backed, we hadn't bought the players he'd asked for, and as such he couldn't be expected to do any more with such a shit squad of players that had let down a string of managers before him. And now it's changed to "no, we're just saying he needs to continue to be backed".

Am I going mad here?

No it's just that this is a nuanced situation with seperate elements that require understanding and consideration rather than it being a blanket black and white situation. Unfortunately some appear unable to understand, or are so set in their agendas refuse to acknowledge these nuances. In the same way some people assume that people wanting Conte to stay equals them being Conte worshippers and therefore are unable to criticise him in anyway which is clearly utter nonsense. He can be backed in one window but still not be backed overall if then in the future the club fails to adequately address the glaring weaknesses in the squad.