Ex-Manager watch: Antonio Conte

[DelBoyN17]

This is the same sort of argument we all had when Jose was here and people wanted him out.

The squad is still littered with players who peaked under Poch nearly 5 years ago. They fucked him under a bus, they let Jose drive it down a hill and are now letting Conte try and drive it without any fuel.

If someone new comes in they get another chance. The same players who have been a consistent let down since the start of 2019 will be allowed to be a let down for another 12-18 months. That's nearly 6 years of wasted time pissing around with managers.

Of course its not all on the players, the owners and the coaches need to do more but when your hands are tied there's only so much you can do.

For me, Conte has credit in the bank for dragging us into the CL last season.


But, save for the last season at WHL, and a couple of games here and there, this is nothing new for us. We have always under performed in big games.


The difference is we've spent the money horrendously before Paratici arrived.

I have to disagree, you’d have thought Poch had credit in the bank after getting us to a CL final months before, yet look how that ended, I think it’s inevitable the Conte marriage ends in Divorce, it’s how we do things at Tottenham

 

[spursfan77]

Take your point entirely. My issue is that Conte does not set us up on the front foot, which may or may not mask some inadequacies, but would at least get the crowd on side.

Defence not working, both in terms of set up and personnel. Have got anything more to lose by going 4 at the back ?

No other team in the league plays that way except us. We are the only team that lets the opposition come on to them. Every other team presses from the front. We don’t. I’m not sure we can now either with Son and Kane both in the team. Kane does it sporadically and Son refuses to do it at all.

 

[djhotspur]

I hear you @Trix . We do have players who make so many errors.

However, its not all their fault. Being completely dominated in midfield in most games isn't because Lloris or the backline make mistakes. Its because Conte insists on playing a tactic that sees us outnumbered in the engine room every single game. Which then sees us get deeper as we don't have the ball. Which then sees the opposition have chances.

We all knew yesterday if we play 2 CMs then Arsenal's 3 would take control.

Yeah we did but then you could counter it with if we played a 3 man midfield with our wing backs we wouldn’t be able to get out at all like at United.
Everyone demanded 3 5 2 there and it went so wrong. You need the right wing backs for it to work

 

[HildoSpur]

Until we completely revamp our defence - I'm talking 5 new first team players - RWB/LWB/CB/CB/GK we are going nowhere and I don't care who the manager is.

 

[Scott Spur]

Some really good points and agree with a LOT of this.

A few thoughts to add:
Whilst Levy/ENIC might not be ‘hounded out’ I do think a huge amount of ‘noise’ could at least influence his approach. Whereas I know for sure that doing nothing will mean nothing will change.

We’ve seen from the AON docco, and his most recent club video a year ago that he’s not blind and deaf, he is aware of what the fans say he just doesn’t make good football decisions.

After Poch was sacked the narrative was we want to win… so his brainwave was let’s get Jose in a proven winner, but he and his style of play was a terrible fit for our squad and club and he was an outdated manager. The intent was good but the decision making was poor, what he should’ve done was hired E.g. Ten Haag, a ‘winner’ but one who played a brand of football suited to that squad and that our fans would enjoy, the feel good factor would’ve remained and been built on.

It was then Levy who after sacking Jose, made it a priority that the next manager would play attractive attacking football, we looked at Ten Haag and Potter and others and pretty much settled on Fonseca who DOES play the style of football we like to see, similar to Pochball.

Fonseca said he spoke with the chairman(Levy) about the project and need for this attractive attacking style of play and everything was agreed but Paratici was then hired (a good DofF but one who comes from one of the most defensive teams in Europe in Juventus so is again a bad fit in that sense!) he then pulled the plug on Fonseca who could’ve been a good fit, not necessarily successful but a good fit.

Paratici then wanted to get Gattuso in, our fans put a stop to that and we had no options left so took Nuno who was forced to put out PR statement videos saying he’d play attractive football and make us proud. So the intent was there it was just a mess behind the scenes, then Nuno goes tits up and we go back to conte because we think top 3 manager in the world if we can get him in everything will be ok just how levy thought the same with Jose but the issue here is the decision is being looked out without thinking about the suitability of that manager to the squad and players we have and to our club and fans. Meanwhile our player recruitment is poor and we’ve now been buying players for a completely different style of play under Jose and Nuno E.g. Doherty and PEH for a physical counter attacking game.

The same as Man.U, they hired a lot of managers after Ferguson who bored the pants off them (Jose, Van Gaal) and all had different strategies so they were constantly a mess.

If the fans chant levy out and protest in huge numbers for a long time and at home games and the pressure ramps up either he will be influenced to put in more money to back conte properly or bring poch back or a manager similar to poch to appease the fans a bit. It might not make a jot of a difference but as I’ve explained above I do think the fans can at least influence levy a bit if we aren’t able to get rid of him just yet so it’s worth a try.

Absolutely spot on.

I am also a little concerned that Paratici, as much as I like his ability to identify a player, is not a DoF that will want a progressive manager. I’m sure Levy will overrule him and we will end up back at square one.

 

[djhotspur]

No other team in the league plays that way except us. We are the only team that lets the opposition come on to them. Every other team presses from the front. We don’t. I’m not sure we can now either with Son and Kane both in the team. Kane does it sporadically and Son refuses to do it at all.

Agreed. We need richie and Kulu if we want to press high and stay up the pitch.
we also need to not have hojberg who is too much a plodder

 

[ralphs bald spot]

Sessegnon is scared of his own shadow. Awful signing and no manager changes that

And most of the crowd are fed up because of Levy

I agree Ibut there threatens to be a player there he gets into decent positions but then he looks scared of making a mistake compare that to Saka similar age group similar profile his first instinct is to go forward - in the first minutes yesterday Sessegnon got into a great position to run at the full back but got so far and didn't want to concede posesssion and turns back that has to be confidence thing to some degree and at least some of that is down to the managers risk adversity

 

[HotSprut]

Imo, we need to choose a path fast and follow it, whether it is backing our current manager or a new one. Act dammit!

 

[Trix]

I hear you @Trix . We do have players who make so many errors.

However, its not all their fault. Being completely dominated in midfield in most games isn't because Lloris or the backline make mistakes. Its because Conte insists on playing a tactic that sees us outnumbered in the engine room every single game. Which then sees us get deeper as we don't have the ball. Which then sees the opposition have chances.

We all knew yesterday if we play 2 CMs then Arsenal's 3 would take control.

I don't disagree, but I feel there must be a reason behind it because Conte isn't stupid. I just think whatever the game plan might be to see all the work you've done preparing for it fall apart every game 10 minutes in through players failing to do the basics is infuriating.

It also doesn't explain how we are always so much better in second halves in games playing exactly the same formation and system.

 

[rightwayup]

Trying to get into my head why we play our tactics when key positions are poor. Our WBs are weak and our central defence full of mistakes. Why then overpopulate the area of weakness when you can control midfield more with an extra man in the middle. It maybe that Conte has considered that but with injuries has had to hold off for the moment. A midfield of Sarr, Bentacur and Bissouma along with Son, Kane and Kulu would be so much more solid and we could then play more conventional full backs. When England played that 5-2-3 (which effectively we are as our WBs cannot attack) in the Euros Kane was completely ineffective, why are we making the same mistake.

 

[EssexSH27]

Yeah we did but then you could counter it with if we played a 3 man midfield with our wing backs we wouldn’t be able to get out at all like at United.
Everyone demanded 3 5 2 there and it went so wrong. You need the right wing backs for it to work

Everyone’s demanding 352 because this guy is flat out refusing to play with 4231 or 433. I swear he wasn’t married to this system before Liverpool did Chelsea at home, now he can’t play 5 mins without it.

 

[djhotspur]

I don't disagree, but I feel there must be a reason behind it because Conte isn't stupid. I just think whatever the game plan might be to see all the work you've done preparing for it fall apart every game 10 minutes in through players failing to do the basics is infuriating.

It also doesn't explain how we are always so much better in second halves in games playing exactly the same formation and system.

Agreed.

For all Arsenals dominance yesterday I don't think they really created that much imo.

In the first half they had a big chance through lloris big mistake, then they had the goal which isn't really a chance as we have it well covered and it was straight at lloris, they had the Partey strike which isn't really a big chance then the odegaard goal. They didn't have many shots and didn't create a whole lot.

 

[Rout-Ledge]

Oh I’m not defending him. I 100% agree with you. The squad was most certainly strengthened. My issue is that it appears ENIC lied to us about this £150m ‘cash injection’ and despite this, there was a perception that our summer business was a roaring success - it wasn’t.

It was certainly an underwhelming window given the context of it - that was my view at the time. However, if you look back on this site for contemporaneous reactions the general perception was that it was a successful window. Funnily enough that perception changed when our form turned to shit.

The idea that Conte hasn’t been ‘backed’ at all, and when he is ‘backed’ (whatever that is supposed to look like?) all will come good…it’s fantasy. He’ll be out of here within 3 years no matter what.

 

[Ribble]

nope. but definitely didn't expect to show zero sign of improvement after two windows.

I dint think that's fair, Bentancur and Deki massively improved us last January. What really caused the damage is that was followed up with a window where we didn't bring in anyone else creative, which has been made worse by the problems up front and Kane dropping in less often. Without Bentancur to carry the ball forward or Kane dropping back to create a passing opportunity there's absolutely nobody central to break the lines, which makes the team entirely predictable.

 

[muel]

Well then bite the bullet. Rip off the plaster. Sack Conte, sell Kane and start from scratch. Paratici would leave as well. Levy appoints a new project DOF in the style of Damien Commoli, we're mid-table for a few years then hope Poch or whoever it is magically strike gold.

What’s the realistic alternative?

I hate this by the way. I want us to have different strategy, but realistically if this ownership and model is to stay then how do we maximise that?

 

[thelak]

Hard to defend Conte playing Sess yday.
Sess is toilet and another one of Pochs dreadful signings

I would summarise the situation as unambiguous owners, unbalanced flawed squad, several players playing well below their basic level, some players looking to have checked out and a manager that is very talented but clearly a terrible fit for this club

conclusion - burn it all down and start again. Don’t rehire Poch but get a good up and coming progressive manager

 

[Spurzinho]

no no no. How can we watch the likes of sess for years and say that poch can fix him. He's done, not good enough. This is the reason we don't progress

I'm not saying that Sess can come good because I'm pretty sure he is what he's always going to be at this point but there were plenty of players who weren't cutting it before Poch turned up and they turned into world beaters. Danny Rose wasn't pulling up any trees before Poch got hold of him. I always knew he was talented because I'd been watching him for the U18s but injuries and being played as a winger or a 10 was not helping him. Poch helped him become one of the best left backs in Europe. Kyle Walker was also not one of the country's best wing backs before Poch arrived but he became that with Poch's coaching. Dembele was anonymous before Poch got him involved. Let's not have anyone pretend otherwise. Under Poch he became an absolute beast and arguably one of the best midfielders in Europe. Poch even managed to get a tune out of Sissoko and Winks. My point is that even the most awful flop come good under the right coach. Conte doesn't seem to have that knack. Everyone is pretty much performing way below their best. Every single player at the moment is significantly below what we know they would be capable of if they were motivated, coached and playing in a system that suited them. I wouldn't earmark Sess for that kind of transformation at all but you never know. One thing is for sure, Conte hasn't brought the best out in anyone since he's been here.

 

[jolsnogross]

Its not even a 3-4-3 anymore. Way too often its a 5-2-3 leaving our midfield exposed.

Yeah, its funny everyone goes on about 343 when it's very clearly 5 at the back and sitting off the opposition at the start of every game. Sometimes it's 541, others its 523 when our counter attacks fall apart. It certainly isn't 343, and inviting opponents to the edge of our box every first half is a nonsense.

 

[spurs mental]

I have to disagree, you’d have thought Poch had credit in the bank after getting us to a CL final months before, yet look how that ended, I think it’s inevitable the Conte marriage ends in Divorce, it’s how we do things at Tottenham

Our league form was horrendous for the 10 months before he was sacked though. That CL run to the final, fantastic as it was, absolutely papered over serious issues.

 

[Spurzinho]

I honestly find going to games torture because our fans moan constantly and refuse to back the team. I've felt like this for awhile but is trying to a point that I don't enjoy going at all.

i want full scale changes at board level like arsenal had. You can't reward levy time and time again when he consistently fails

Reward? You do realise that he's his own boss right? He isn't going to sack himself.