Ex-Manager watch: Antonio Conte

[Russ1201]

My advice, don't bother going to the games anymore. Next season potentially No Kane, no champs league, 10+ players need replacing, levy still there. Spurs could be nearer the bottom than the top.

Feel so bad saying this but I have a feeling you could be right.
Only a matter of time to kulu, Romero and Bentacur join Conte, Fab, Kane, Sonny out of the door.
Yet Levy and ENIC will still be here and some fans will still be licking Levy's balls.

 

[KevinW]

Honestly I think Paratici has come out this 2 years looking good. DoF isn't responsible for money available and I think when it comes to player recruitment. He signed 6/7 players who you can build a future around.

Sarr was an incredible signing at the time, rival teams even gave spurs credit for it
Gill is a hugely promising signing
Kulusevski, Romero, Bentancur are the 3 you can build a team around
Richarlison
Udogie, who knows with Spence in different circumstances

I mean in 2 years, that's a pretty good track record;

Edit: I'd add Bissouma to this too, I think he'll be tremendous eventually.

I agree. On Sarr and Bissouma (and the other central midfielders) it is hard for them to shine when Conte insists on playing 3-4-3 and leaves the two midfielders outnumbered by the opposition playing three. It was pretty clear long ago, but the Villa game and Sunday really brought it home - the opposition constantly has a spare man to either pass triangles around us or to make a forward run. Our two have no choice but to drop a bit deeper, which leads to Kane dropping a bit deeper . While he undoubtedly shows some great skills in doing this, when you have one of the best finishers ever we should be constructing a midfield to feed him chances , not asking him to create them as well.

(Also shows just how good Bentancur is in that he still manages to get forward and create more)

 

[wrd]

Of course it isn't. And the misfit here is the manager. I guess that if Son was in his last season's form and Lloris wasn't making so many mistakes, Levy would sanction transfers of peak-years players. But on top of the players Conte already wants (RWB, CM, LW) we need to get players that would replace our aging stars.

That changes the perspective from winning now to building a project. And this is a fact. Even if we get players we need, it'll take time for them to gel.

Conte is not patient and neither is Kane.

Basically, it's impossible to win anything now. And if we won't press the reset button now it'll be very hard to win anything in the next few years. We have enough players that would be our core for the next few years.

I'd be more than happy if we kept Paratici (provided he won't be arrested for Juve stuff) and let him appoint a project manager like Fonseca or De Zerbi. He's got an eye for a talent and knows how to strike good deals.

Yeah personally I think if you hire Conte then you sacrifice the model slightly, if you want to sign for the future (gill, spence) then you loan them out for 2 years immediately and willingly put the money forward to give Conte what he wants. If you want to sign players who are young but have experience then you're looking at Richarlison esque fee's or excellent deals like Bentancur, Kulusevki but you need to be willing to compromise somewhere and either sacrifice the future signings so you have additional money or keep signing them but be willing to provide additional money so Conte can build what he wants and you continue to sign these young prospects. Jack Clarke seemed to be a straw that broke the camels back with Poch before and now with Conte, it's Spence. Where we outlay on players the managers don't want but don't put forward anymore of what they need.

 

[Trix]

I think what I find frustrating around here is sometimes it feels like people have short memories of the positions taken at times. A few years ago Poch was too stubborn and inflexible in the transfer window despite the fact he get a tremendous amount out of a little and then at a certain point he decided to demand what you could argue he had rightfully earn't. Then slowly I watched how fans turned on that manager despite where he managed to take the club albeit with the trophy to cap it off.

Now it seems that history is repeating itself and people are just not seeing the pattern, sometimes I see people forget that they were critical of Levy then all of a sudden, Levy wasn't the problem the manager was, now he is again. Now Conte is too stubborn and inflexible. I also see people still shit unwilling to acknowledge they judged the Poch situation on after all that has happened since those days.

Whatever happens now, as we appear to be looking to spin the wheel of mediocrity again, I'm sure people will find my post annoying but can we all just make a note of the situation here. Remember it and so we can spot the pattern so when this happens again in 18 months that we as fans are in a better position to call shit out, instead of falling for the same shit over and over again. Can we fucking ignore all the positive snippets and not celebrate the supposed war chest, things different this time, a couple of appertising signings. Can we hold off until we actually see a team on the pitch, consistently producing for a season and then actually look to build upon it by sorting everything we need, not a few positions short anymore. Not getting us back to appearing to compete and then not pushing the boat out in the window. We're all guilty of it celebrating too early including me, but if this situation is going the way it appears to, we need to smarten the fuck up.

He was though, and both things can be right at the same time. Taking money totally out of the equation the two players Poch wanted went to Juve and Barca, established Elite clubs they'd set their hearts on. He needed back up options because money was only one of the factors that saw us miss out on his targets. Now had he of had alternatives we didn't get that would be a different story altogether.

 

[Marantz]

Now we just need Levy to come out in support of Conte. Give him the kiss of death before the City game.

 

[PLTuck]

AG got it spot on.

Theres Chelsea, a win now club with a project manager.
Then there's us. A project club with a win now manager.

Swapsies?

 

[wrd]

He was though, and both things can be right at the same time. Taking money totally out of the equation the two players Poch wanted went to Juve and Barca, established Elite clubs they'd set their hearts on. He needed back up options because money was only one of the factors that saw us miss out on his targets. Now had he of had alternatives we didn't get that would be a different story altogether.

I don't think this is ITK so I'll ask, do you think that there's an argument to be said that managers need to be quite stubborn and close to uncompromising when it comes to Levy? I feel Conte from the outside looking in is needing to be quite stubborn to try and force the issue of what he desires for example. So do you think perhaps Poch got to the point where he realised that being stubborn was a neccesity to try and force some movement in the window but I'd certainly say; with De Ligt and De Jong I feel perhaps he realised he needed this approach but went too extreme with it.

This is why I've not been Conte out, although frustrated because I see him sticking to his guns to try and force Levy's hand to get the deals he wants but he's not making the mistake that Poch made by being uncompromising on specific targets. The issue is that I think Conte felt he had the fans behind him to do it but that's turned and I fear he has lost interest.

 

[-Afri-Coy-]

actually yes if you think back a few short months ago these same players produced some excellent performances playing more aggressively and to tactics which were refined we pressed in key areas usually in wide positions teams then had less time on the ball and as a result the defensive looked more cohesive and actually looked to have made a massive step forward . Compare that to recent weeks

Sorry but its all a bit repetitive the players of course you need to make signings but by equal measure surely no one can think the way we play is getting the best out of them -

You do realise that what you’ve just explained is happening under the same manager that they excelled under just a couple of months ago?

Do you honestly think that they’re all good players and not that it was just another purple patch that we’ve seen TWICE already in 3 years?

Do you really think between last season and this season Conte completely changed his tactical approach that he’s been implementing at multiple clubs in the past 10 years?

Call out his shortcomings all you want, but make sure it’s in the realm of reality and not delusion.

These players are way more responsible for the fuck up that we see on the pitch than anyone gives them credit for.

But it’s cool, I’ll say the same thing I said when we were about to sack Jose before a fucking final. NOTHING is going to change when we sack Conte. Enjoy your 6 month purple patch with your beloved average players and you’ll be back in the manager thread moaning when it all turns to shit for a 4th time.

 

[Trix]

I don't think this is ITK so I'll ask, do you think that there's an argument to be said that managers need to be quite stubborn and close to uncompromising when it comes to Levy? I feel Conte from the outside looking in is needing to be quite stubborn to try and force the issue of what he desires for example. So do you think perhaps Poch got to the point where he realised that being stubborn was a neccesity to try and force some movement in the window but I'd certainly say; with De Ligt and De Jong I feel perhaps he realised he needed this approach but went too extreme with it.

This is why I've not been Conte out, although frustrated because I see him sticking to his guns to try and force Levy's hand to get the deals he wants but he's not making the mistake that Poch made by being uncompromising on specific targets. The issue is that I think Conte felt he had the fans behind him to do it but that's turned and I fear he has lost interest.

Right now I genuinely don't think it matters.

 

[Timberwolf]

AG got it spot on.

Theres Chelsea, a win now club with a project manager.
Then there's us. A project club with a win now manager.

Swapsies?

While we like to think of ourselves as more of a 'project club' because of the young, exuberant team we had during the Poch era is that even what we are?

If you look longer term, that's the exception rather than the rule - a project we stumbled into and Levy was patient with solely because it was successful.

If you look longer term, we're actually just a basketcase club and any project manager we bring in will get the boot before long if they don't instantly do pretty damn well. Even Poch was hanging on by a thread after about 3-4 months and was saved by the emergence of a generational striker we just so happened to bring through the academy.

 

[wrd]

Right now I genuinely don't think it matters.

I figured as much, this is why us fans need to smarten up because us being so easily swayed by the media and narratives makes it easy for them.

 

[Spunkmonkey]

While we like to think of ourselves as more of a 'project club' because of the young, exuberant team we had during the Poch era is that even what we are?

If you look longer term, that's the exception rather than the rule - a project we stumbled into and Levy was patient with solely because it was successful.

If you look longer term, we're actually just a basketcase club and any project manager we bring in will get the boot before long if they don't instantly do pretty damn well.

We are a “what takes Levy’s fancy at that moment in time” club.

 

[PLTuck]

I think what I find frustrating around here is sometimes it feels like people have short memories of the positions taken at times. A few years ago Poch was too stubborn and inflexible in the transfer window despite the fact he get a tremendous amount out of a little and then at a certain point he decided to demand what you could argue he had rightfully earn't. Then slowly I watched how fans turned on that manager despite where he managed to take the club albeit with the trophy to cap it off.

Now it seems that history is repeating itself and people are just not seeing the pattern, sometimes I see people forget that they were critical of Levy then all of a sudden, Levy wasn't the problem the manager was, now he is again. Now Conte is too stubborn and inflexible. I also see people still shit unwilling to acknowledge they judged the Poch situation on after all that has happened since those days.

Whatever happens now, as we appear to be looking to spin the wheel of mediocrity again, I'm sure people will find my post annoying but can we all just make a note of the situation here. Remember it and so we can spot the pattern so when this happens again in 18 months that we as fans are in a better position to call shit out, instead of falling for the same shit over and over again. Can we fucking ignore all the positive snippets and not celebrate the supposed war chest, things different this time, a couple of appertising signings. Can we hold off until we actually see a team on the pitch, consistently producing for a season and then actually look to build upon it by sorting everything we need, not a few positions short anymore. Not getting us back to appearing to compete and then not pushing the boat out in the window. We're all guilty of it celebrating too early including me, but if this situation is going the way it appears to, we need to smarten the fuck up.

I'm not entirely sure this is right. I don't think anyone here thinks that Levy isn't an issue. In fact I suspect the reason there is a new manager thread already is precisely because we are not "falling for it". We know how this plays out more often than not. It's not a case of letting Levy off the hook. We have no choice whatsoever with that. The only thing that will make any difference is if there is a massive drop in revenue in protest which lets face it, isnt going to happen anytime soon.

I often agree with Ali Gold and do again. It's not a case of either or. Levy and board shoulder some blame. Conte shoulders some blame. Players shoulder some blame.

 

[Guernman]

Why can't Levy just adapt to the situation. You bring in a world class manager like Mourinho or Conte to finally win something. You back them with the players they tell you they need - you won't always get their specific first choice, but obviously they want players who will immediately impact the best 11. You recognise that you have a generational talent in Harry Kane and to have one of the best strikers in the world already here is never going to be repeated. We have money, we have high sustainable revenues with the stadium, so push the bloody boat out, throw the dice. Back the world class winner you are paying millions to manage the team and then bring in a project manager to build the next phase of youth.

We are such an embarrassment right now. Mourinho was sacked days before a cup final, I mean who does that? How idiotic do you have to be to make that decision when we haven't won a damn thing in years. Jose of course was past it we were told, but still went on to win silverware with Roma in his very next season. Conte will be the same. Two of the greatest managers the footballing world has ever known, who have won everything, everywhere... except both will have a little asterix next to the tiny blip in their CVs which will read * see Levy. D...

 

[PLTuck]

While we like to think of ourselves as more of a 'project club' because of the young, exuberant team we had during the Poch era is that even what we are?

If you look longer term, that's the exception rather than the rule - a project we stumbled into and Levy was patient with solely because it was successful.

If you look longer term, we're actually just a basketcase club and any project manager we bring in will get the boot before long if they don't instantly do pretty damn well. Even Poch was hanging on by a thread after about 3-4 months and was saved by the emergence of a generational striker we just so happened to bring through the academy.

Not just the Poch era though was it. Jol was a project with young exciting players. Harry too, and obviously Poch most recently. We interspersed "winners" between them, and have gone down the win now route since Poch but without having the environment for winners to do their winning.

We are a project club without the patience to see out a project. It's a big issue imo.

 

[spanners]

Right now I genuinely don't think it matters.

Hmm, somebody knows something!

 

[rossdapep]

Sadly would make sense if the Poch rumours are true. Given his time here before, I think it's safe to say he'd prefer not to have a DoF and certainly not one who sits behind the bench at home games.

But as I posted a couple of pages back, it would be another example of Levy's hokey-cokey chairmanship - yet another change in structure. How Lewis is allowing him to run us this way beggars belief.

Lewis couldn't give a shit, has not in it to win. He's in it to grow the portfolio and investment, Levy has done that exceptionally well, so he's grand in his book.

Which is why they all sit there thinking they've done a good job and probably can't understand the criticism.

We are a FOOTBALL CLUB Levy, that's why you twat

 

[H-SF]

Thinking about it I think he’s 100% gone. I can’t see a world where Kane goes and Conte stays and now I can’t see a world where Kane stays. Think it would require an unbelievable end to the season, winning the UCL or a top 4 resurgence and an FA CUP otherwise he’ll be off to United.

 

[Liamyid28]

Enic don’t care about the club like we do they don’t care about silverware they care about making lots and lots of money so levy is successful. That’s all that matters to them I’ve said it before I’ll say it again vote with your feet, fuck enic and that shiny new stadium they ain’t getting a single penny more of my money!

 

[dagraham]

We are a “what takes Levy’s fancy at that moment in time” club.

Indeed. As far as football matters go, he’s been basically fucking winging it for the last 15 years.