Ex-Manager watch: Antonio Conte

[alfie103]

I disagree. For example, when Conte went off on a rant after the Southampton match, a lot of people here were totally into it. They weren’t just agreeing, they enjoyed it.

We know the players in question aren’t good enough but a number of them are still here and Ange has managed to contain his emotions about them. Conte’s outbursts helped fuel the kind of abuse we see players like Lloris, Dier, Emerson etc subjected to on here. Yeah they’re not good enough but they’re professional and some of them have dedicated most of their careers to the club.

We are replacing them anyway and that started under Conte. We were never going to do it all in two windows.

They haven't dedicated their careers to the club. They have been contracted to play for the club.

 

[RuskyM]

They haven't dedicated their careers to the club. They have been contracted to play for the club.

And they have, without dispute. But they didn't get abuse for their conduct, they got abuse for their supposed underperformance, and that's why you can't take emotion and personal investment out of this.

 

[spurs mental]

I disagree. For example, when Conte went off on a rant after the Southampton match, a lot of people here were totally into it. They weren’t just agreeing, they enjoyed it.

Fair enough.

I don't think people enjoyed it but agreed with what he said about players and certain aspects of the club. He wasn't wrong about the points he made, especially about the club and Levy being responsible for transfers. Historically we've let managers down. Historically we are used to not taking the next step, or falling backwards after pushing forward because of how Levy operates. Managers come and go but some players have been a constant.

 

[Styopa]

And they have, without dispute. But they didn't get abuse for their conduct, they got abuse for their supposed underperformance, and that's why you can't take emotion and personal investment out of this.

Yeah I think this is the key point. I don’t think the professionalism of most of these players is in question. If they’re not good enough then that’s ok but we shouldn’t abuse them and Conte I think set a precedent that it was fine to abuse them. I understand probably his emotions got the better of him but he should have known better really, given his experience.

As o mentioned before, it’s not like we weren’t in the process of replacing them anyway. It’s just Conte didn’t want to hang around while we did.

 

[C1w8]

Holy wall of text Batman!

It's all well and good that Ange has come in and changed the culture of the club - and infused more positivity. I think that has been a big factor in the turn around.


But, you can't just ignore the upgrade in players either - both Ange and the new players have contributed to the change.

Last year - Against Newcastle - we have upgraded:

Lloris
Dier
Perisic (at LB)
Hojbjerg
Skipp

5 starters - is a huge change


If you go back to the last win before the Newcastle debacle, it was Brighton, and we have upgraded:

Lloris
Dier
Lenglet
Skipp
Hojbjerg
Perisic (LWB)


So, you can't point to Ange alone as the reason for the change. When you upgrade half the team, that also has a big impact on performance.


All that said - you know I love Ange, and would not trade him for anyone. Just don't ignore the upgrades to the team that have been made since last season.

On the flip side if we point to the line up of the bournemouth game its only Udogie, johnson and vicario starting who are new signings, two full backs at CB and we've lost kane, and in reality we've had a lot missing in terms of upgrades for say half the season to put an estimate on it.

I think where people point to the turnaround being on the manager and being the most significant factor above all else more than contrast in the style of play, the issues we've had fielding a close to first 11 for much of the season, its been the speed in which this has all happened. It's like we managed to flick a switch at the start of the season and not many if any saw that coming.

 

[alfie103]

And they have, without dispute. But they didn't get abuse for their conduct, they got abuse for their supposed underperformance, and that's why you can't take emotion and personal investment out of this.

Isn't their on field performance the main reason why they have been given contracts in the first place?

 

[Styopa]

Isn't their on field performance the main reason why they have been given contracts in the first place?

I think they’ve gradually been replaced, especially over the last couple of years. I mean now we’re just talking about Dier and Davies really?

When Mourinho took over he was talking like he could win the league with the group he inherited, and that he was the missing piece - a proven winner to carry the squad over the line. It was only a few months into his tenure that the narrative changed.

But ever since Conte joined we have been upgrading the squad with younger, better players. Romero, Emerson, Kulusevski, Bentancur, Porro, and Richarlison all arrived while Conte was here (or in Romero’s case a few months before). Perisic also joined. That’s seven first team players, all arguably starters. And Conte was only here for about eighteen months.

 

[alfie103]

I think they’ve gradually been replaced, especially over the last couple of years. I mean now we’re just talking about Dier and Davies really?

When Mourinho took over he was talking like he could win the league with the group he inherited, and that he was the missing piece - a proven winner to carry the squad over the line. It was only a few months into his tenure that the narrative changed.

But ever since Conte joined we have been upgrading the squad with younger, better players. Romero, Emerson, Kulusevski, Bentancur, Porro, and Richarlison all arrived while Conte was here (or in Romero’s case a few months before). Perisic also joined. That’s seven first team players, all arguably starters. And Conte was only here for about eighteen months.

My point is I don't think it is abuse if someone criticises a player's footballing attributes e.g. by saying they are 'shit' or 'can't hack pressure'. They are paid principally to be a footballer and therefore it is fine to judge their performance as a footballer.

 

[alfie103]

Yeah I think this is the key point. I don’t think the professionalism of most of these players is in question. If they’re not good enough then that’s ok but we shouldn’t abuse them and Conte I think set a precedent that it was fine to abuse them. I understand probably his emotions got the better of him but he should have known better really, given his experience.

As o mentioned before, it’s not like we weren’t in the process of replacing them anyway. It’s just Conte didn’t want to hang around while we did.

I just rewatched the press conference and frankly I don't see what was abusive about it.

 

[Styopa]

My point is I don't think it is abuse if someone criticises a player's footballing attributes e.g. by saying they are 'shit' or 'can't hack pressure'. They are paid principally to be a footballer and therefore it is fine to judge their performance as a footballer.

Yeah criticism is fine, I think what most people object to is when it spills over into stuff like “stealing a living”, “get out of my club” etc

At the stadium some really disgusting things are said, although obviously here comments are moderated. The problem imo is when you have a coach throwing the players under the bus some fans see this as a licence to start booing players and become abusive. The atmosphere turned toxic when results faltered under Mourinho and similarly Conte.

Ange has handled the situation differently and more professionally imo. Dier has been more or less frozen out but we haven’t been subjected to any rants by Ange about how the players aren’t good enough, how the club will never win anything etc

 

[alfie103]

Yeah criticism is fine, I think what most people object to is when it spills over into stuff like “stealing a living”, “get out of my club” etc

At the stadium some really disgusting things are said, although obviously here comments are moderated. The problem imo is when you have a coach throwing the players under the bus some fans see this as a licence to start booing players and become abusive. The atmosphere turned toxic when results faltered under Mourinho and similarly Conte.

Ange has handled the situation differently and more professionally imo. Dier has been more or less frozen out but we haven’t been subjected to any rants by Ange about how the players aren’t good enough, how the club will never win anything etc

Conte's conference isn't responsible for the fans booing players or being abusive, stuff like that has always happened. You could argue players also throw managers under the bus by not performing to the best of their abilities but there is no consequences for the players, they don't get punished whereas managers get sacked. They know they hold the power and, for me, it was nice to see the manager, in this opinion, stop defending them.

It seems it is fine for managers who we don't like to be abused and be booed but we can't do it to the players.

 

[Styopa]

Conte's conference isn't responsible for the fans booing players or being abusive, stuff like that has always happened. You could argue players also throw managers under the bus by not performing to the best of their abilities but there is no consequences for the players, they don't get punished whereas managers get sacked. They know they hold the power and, for me, it was nice to see the manager, in this opinion, stop defending them.

It seems it is fine for managers who we don't like to be abused and be booed but we can't do it to the players.

No, I don’t think we should abuse managers either.

But the manager sets the tone. Conte contributed to a really toxic atmosphere around the whole club. As I said previously, I think some people enjoyed that because they thought the players needed to be called out. But at best it was ineffective and at worst it encouraged the more base instincts of fans to pile on abuse of the players.

 

[Locotoro]

I really want to see what Conte says about Spurs and all his criticisms.

 

[EssexSH27]

I really want to see what Conte says about Spurs and all his criticisms.

I doubt he’ll have a reason to till he brings a side here to play us. Rumours about AC job so maybe not so far away

 

[TOLBINY]

No, I don’t think we should abuse managers either.

But the manager sets the tone. Conte contributed to a really toxic atmosphere around the whole club. As I said previously, I think some people enjoyed that because they thought the players needed to be called out. But at best it was ineffective and at worst it encouraged the more base instincts of fans to pile on abuse of the players.

FWIIW I think it needed to be be said - I wouldn't say I enjoyed it but I was thankful that finally someone had the balls to tell it like it is and it proved to be the catalyst for what is happening now - so overall probably a good thing.

 

[thfcsteff]

I think they’ve gradually been replaced, especially over the last couple of years. I mean now we’re just talking about Dier and Davies really?

When Mourinho took over he was talking like he could win the league with the group he inherited, and that he was the missing piece - a proven winner to carry the squad over the line. It was only a few months into his tenure that the narrative changed.

But ever since Conte joined we have been upgrading the squad with younger, better players. Romero, Emerson, Kulusevski, Bentancur, Porro, and Richarlison all arrived while Conte was here (or in Romero’s case a few months before). Perisic also joined. That’s seven first team players, all arguably starters. And Conte was only here for about eighteen months.

Conte was irrelevant to that. Paratici was the don there, and I personally owe that man an apology for allowing his dodgy geezerism to cloud his undoubted ability to conjure excellent young players.

 

[Gilzeanking]

And they have, without dispute. But they didn't get abuse for their conduct, they got abuse for their supposed underperformance, and that's why you can't take emotion and personal investment out of this.

Inflammatory and inaccurate . I hate it this kind of wildly over emotional outburst . Saying you don't think a player is any good on a footie forum has nothing to do with abuse and is an insult to all those people genuinely feeling abuse in their lives.

This is a fcucking football forum , someone saying they don't think a player is good enough is NOT abuse.

Grow up.

 

[Styopa]

FWIIW I think it needed to be be said - I wouldn't say I enjoyed it but I was thankful that finally someone had the balls to tell it like it is and it proved to be the catalyst for what is happening now - so overall probably a good thing.

I don’t see it having anything to do with what is happening now, other than convincing Levy that he made a terrible mistake in appointing Conte and prompting him to go in completely the opposite direction with his replacement appointment.

 

[aussiespursguy]

Why is this thread even a thing?
He is GONE.
Move on. Those horrible days are over.

 

[RuskyM]

Inflammatory and inaccurate . I hate it this kind of wildly over emotional outburst . Saying you don't think a player is any good on a footie forum has nothing to do with abuse and is an insult to all those people genuinely feeling abuse in their lives.

This is a fcucking football forum , someone saying they don't think a player is good enough is NOT abuse.

Grow up.

Aye, when Davinson Sanchez was crying on the bench after being subbed off it was because he'd been reading posts on here.