Fan Forum

[spursfan77]

Poch was burned out by the time the UCL final came around and you could see in the Amazon doc he didn't have the fire left to continue. It was right to let him go.

and still yet to show it’s been rekindled.

 

[thekneaf]

Nothing more than a PR event.
Daniel saying 'We've got our Tottenham back' is as much cringe as him saying COYS.
Not falling for it Daniel.
But still glad that Ange is at the helm though.

I mean, it's literally a public relations event.

If this was presented as Levy wandering into Chick King and having a few conversations with fans before a game that just so happened to be filmed, then that could be accused of being nothing more than PR.

You can't accuse someone openly doing an event of PR. He wasn't going to accuse himself if being tBSoDL was he? Or was that what people wanted for him to be "honest"?

 

[Rosco1984]

My only criticism of Levy is this...

We came close under Poch. We got frustrated because we didn't win using that strategy.

We changed strategy and went for Conte and Mourinho. Win now managers. That strategy was a mistake which Levy now admits.

We're now back to the strategy we used under Poch which wasn't successful.

Is it possible that whatever strategy Levy employs, we will not win and certainly not win regularly because the constraints we're working under are not conducive to winning regardless of strategy? The problem isn't the strategy, it's the people setting the strategy.

I will state quite clearly, I'm not a strong ENIC out advocate, I'm not a Levy hater. I just think he's brought us as far as he can. Of course, there aren't many who can bring us to the next level and there are many who can set us back to the Sugar years and worse. But the fact remains, I don't believe we'll ever be very successful (in terms of trophies) under Levy/ENIC.

The Poch era coincided with the wembley years and as much as we deny it we were clearly over leveraged on the stadium build at that time and we didn't have the funds to back Poch at the crucial moment.... it's just the luck of spurs to be in touching distance at just the wrong time. As soon as the stadium was completed we have been very busy almost every window in the market and had Poch arrived at that moment I have no doubt we would have got over the line... Maybe just maybe Postecoglou can be the Poch MK2 or I think even better at just the right time when all those things are now in place... If Poch Had Mourinho or Contes budget they had here when he first arrived imagine what we could have done.

 

[JonnySpurs]

Poch was burned out by the time the UCL final came around and you could see in the Amazon doc he didn't have the fire left to continue. It was right to let him go.

Agree, what I meant was that he should've appointed a similar type of manager to Poch rather than a trophy manager as Jose and Conte were described. I can't recall who we were being linked with at the time but a lesser known, more project type manager is what this club should always be looking at, until the ownership changes and we're in a position to financially back whoever we appoint. Even then though, I still always want us to stay true to our roots and never sacrifice our playing style for the sake of trying to win. Conte showed that winning without style isn't actually as enjoyable as we think it will be.

 

[PaulM]

Agree, what I meant was that he should've appointed a similar type of manager to Poch rather than a trophy manager as Jose and Conte were described. I can't recall who we were being linked with at the time but a lesser known, more project type manager is what this club should always be looking at, until the ownership changes and we're in a position to financially back whoever we appoint. Even then though, I still always want us to stay true to our roots and never sacrifice our playing style for the sake of trying to win. Conte showed that winning without style isn't actually as enjoyable as we think it will be.

Agreed on this and I probably wouldn't have done a year ago to be honest. Conte did well here results wise. However, there were very, very few Conte performances I really enjoyed. Maybe the 3-0 v Woolwich, the 1-1 at Anfield, the 4-0 at Villa, the 3-2 at City. Even all of those are had spells I didn't enjoy. If he'd achieved his results playing like Ange plays and not been a complete egotistical cockwomble, he'd be remembered fondly.

As it is, given how he set fire to the place on the way out and bored me to tears with his football, I was delighted to see the back of him.

Edit: To be fair, March and April 2022 had 5-6 good performances. Still stand by the core point though.

 

[easley91]

Agree, what I meant was that he should've appointed a similar type of manager to Poch rather than a trophy manager as Jose and Conte were described. I can't recall who we were being linked with at the time but a lesser known, more project type manager is what this club should always be looking at, until the ownership changes and we're in a position to financially back whoever we appoint. Even then though, I still always want us to stay true to our roots and never sacrifice our playing style for the sake of trying to win. Conte showed that winning without style isn't actually as enjoyable as we think it will be.

Personally speaking I felt with the squad we had we needed a manager to take us over the line of winning things. In hindsight we can say now neither were the right fit, but I completely understood why (and at the time agreed with it). What I will say is when Conte came in and we finished 4th, those last few weeks we were winning in style, so they were capable and it wasn't always defensive hold onto 1-0 leads every game.

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

Agree, what I meant was that he should've appointed a similar type of manager to Poch rather than a trophy manager as Jose and Conte were described. I can't recall who we were being linked with at the time but a lesser known, more project type manager is what this club should always be looking at, until the ownership changes and we're in a position to financially back whoever we appoint. Even then though, I still always want us to stay true to our roots and never sacrifice our playing style for the sake of trying to win. Conte showed that winning without style isn't actually as enjoyable as we think it will be.

I agree with this, and I was totally against the Jose appointment.

But as I’ve said previously, the feeling among the fanbase and media was that we had arrived in the big time, and just needed that ‘winner’ type manager to push us over the line. There would have been outrage if we appointed someone like Eddie Howe, for instance. Plus there wasn’t really anyone else available when we sacked Poch. The other option would have been to appoint an interim until the end of the season, but again there would have been outrage.

 

[HodisGawd]

I agree with this, and I was totally against the Jose appointment.

But as I’ve said previously, the feeling among the fanbase and media was that we had arrived in the big time, and just needed that ‘winner’ type manager to push us over the line. There would have been outrage if we appointed someone like Eddie Howe, for instance. Plus there wasn’t really anyone else available when we sacked Poch. The other option would have been to appoint an interim until the end of the season, but again there would have been outrage.

We as a fanbase have to share the blame for Jose and Conte. Not everyone, but the majority wanted them, especially Conte. The loudest mouths were calling for a "win now" manager and the pressure was huge. The very people who complain about us not winning wanted two managers who didn't help us win. I take my responsibility, I wasn't keen on Jose but once he was appointed I was fully behind it. I was absolutely desperate for Conte and cock-a-hoop when he got the job. I got it wrong.

Levy made a big mistake with that change of policy. But it was understandable at the time. And a big part of his mistake was listening to us. Sometimes owners don't know what's best for a club, and sometimes fans don't know either.

Anyhoo, it's ancient history and you can't change the past.

Thankfully, Levy stayed firm and didn't listen to us this time and brought in Ange.

 

[PaulM]

I agree with this, and I was totally against the Jose appointment.

But as I’ve said previously, the feeling among the fanbase and media was that we had arrived in the big time, and just needed that ‘winner’ type manager to push us over the line. There would have been outrage if we appointed someone like Eddie Howe, for instance. Plus there wasn’t really anyone else available when we sacked Poch. The other option would have been to appoint an interim until the end of the season, but again there would have been outrage.

Yeah, I'd have given Poch to the end of that season personally even if I felt it wasn't going to get any better. I thought he'd earned at least that much. But I fully understood why Levy pulled the trigger and I was fully behind Jose and Conte as appointments. So I was wrong (albeit I maintain Conte didn't do badly) - the same as Levy. Therefore, I struggle to hammer him too much for those appointments. I see why he made them - they just didn't work out.

 

[Styopa]

Yeah, I'd have given Poch to the end of that season personally even if I felt it wasn't going to get any better. I thought he'd earned at least that much. But I fully understood why Levy pulled the trigger and I was fully behind Jose and Conte as appointments. So I was wrong (albeit I maintain Conte didn't do badly) - the same as Levy. Therefore, I struggle to hammer him too much for those appointments. I see why he made them - they just didn't work out.

I think it was more than them just not working out though. You only appoint coaches like Mourinho and Conte if you are going to give them the specific (usually senior) players that they want. There’s no point hiring them to oversee a “project” or buying players you hope they will improve through coaching. If Levy wasn’t prepared to do that he shouldn’t have hired them.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

Agree, what I meant was that he should've appointed a similar type of manager to Poch rather than a trophy manager as Jose and Conte were described. I can't recall who we were being linked with at the time but a lesser known, more project type manager is what this club should always be looking at, until the ownership changes and we're in a position to financially back whoever we appoint. Even then though, I still always want us to stay true to our roots and never sacrifice our playing style for the sake of trying to win. Conte showed that winning without style isn't actually as enjoyable as we think it will be.

Great post

 

[PaulM]

I think it was more than them just not working out though. You only appoint coaches like Mourinho and Conte if you are going to give them the specific (usually senior) players that they want. There’s no point hiring them to oversee a “project” or buying players you hope they will improve through coaching. If Levy wasn’t prepared to do that he shouldn’t have hired them.

I can still see why he did it though. Both were successful everywhere they went. Jose won the CL with Porto for instance and he’s done okay subsequently with Roma without unlimited funds. Conte’s net spend was also low at Inter IIRC. So, ultimately, you’re right but there was logic in appointing both. And I’ve no doubt, given what he was saying publicly at the time, that Jose told him he could win with the squad he inherited.

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

I think it was more than them just not working out though. You only appoint coaches like Mourinho and Conte if you are going to give them the specific (usually senior) players that they want. There’s no point hiring them to oversee a “project” or buying players you hope they will improve through coaching. If Levy wasn’t prepared to do that he shouldn’t have hired them.

I agree with this but I think the grey area here is we don't know what expectations were put in place when approaching those managers - did Levy say he would buy the kind of senior players they wanted? or did he tell them that we they need to work within our original structure (develop young players etc...)?

I don't think any of us really know.

 

[Styopa]

I agree with this but I think the grey area here is we don't know what expectations were put in place when approaching those managers - did Levy say he would buy the kind of senior players they wanted? or did he tell them that we they need to work within our original structure (develop young players etc...)?

I don't think any of us really know.

Possibly those coaches told Levy they would be able to work within set parameters which Levy delivered on. However the appointments would still reflect badly on Levy for hiring candidates lacking in the skill set needed for the job in hand.

Honestly I think Levy was a bit star- struck by Mourinho and Conte and let his heart rule his head.

 

[funkycoldmedina]

Possibly those coaches told Levy they would be able to work within set parameters which Levy delivered on. However the appointments would still reflect badly on Levy for hiring candidates lacking in the skill set needed for the job in hand.

Honestly I think Levy was a bit star- struck by Mourinho and Conte and let his heart rule his head.

I think you're right and he set us back for years. I know everyone was sick of project managers but I'm struggling to think of any successful managers in the Premier League at the top end of who haven't been just that when they started. Klopp, Pep, Arteta, all went backwards to ultimately go forward.

Levy thinks too much like a fan in these situations (there was a strong group think in here around not another project manager) and not enough like a strategist.

Fans generally know feck all because they just want success but if you're running the show you need to be above that

 

[Trix]

We as a fanbase have to share the blame for Jose and Conte. Not everyone, but the majority wanted them, especially Conte. The loudest mouths were calling for a "win now" manager and the pressure was huge. The very people who complain about us not winning wanted two managers who didn't help us win. I take my responsibility, I wasn't keen on Jose but once he was appointed I was fully behind it. I was absolutely desperate for Conte and cock-a-hoop when he got the job. I got it wrong.

Levy made a big mistake with that change of policy. But it was understandable at the time. And a big part of his mistake was listening to us. Sometimes owners don't know what's best for a club, and sometimes fans don't know either.

Anyhoo, it's ancient history and you can't change the past.

Thankfully, Levy stayed firm and didn't listen to us this time and brought in Ange.

I'm not so sure that is the case at all. Yes as a majority we wanted those managers, but I'd also say as a majority we understood that we would really need to push the boat out to get them as much as possible that they wanted. We'd also as a majority have understood bringing in players they didn't want was a waste of time and also valuable resources.

The problem wasn't bringing those managers in. It was bringing in two totally uncompromising coaches and thinking they'd happily change their way of management that had brought them a career full of success.

 

[funkycoldmedina]

I'm not so sure that is the case at all. Yes as a majority we wanted those managers, but I'd also say as a majority we understood that we would really need to push the boat out to get them as much as possible that they wanted. We'd also as a majority have understood bringing in players they didn't want was a waste of time and also valuable resources.

The problem wasn't bringing those managers in. It was bringing in two totally uncompromising coaches and thinking they'd happily change their way of management that had brought them a career full of success.

I don't agree, especially regarding Conte. We were a very well paid stop gap for him, in the absence of better offers, and even if he had done what he wanted he wouldn't have been here long enough to see it through.

Mourinho is done as far as I'm concerned as a top manager, he gets away with it at Roma and being in Serie A but he doesn't cut it at in the Premier League anymore.

Either way, both terrible appointments