Gift Orban

[Scot-Spur]

That's fair enough, and I also fear we'll spunk the money away. But there are two ways to approach the rebuild after a big sale. We can spend big, trying to replace Kane as like for like as possible, or we can try to spread the money into two or three players who in sum will have a bigger impact. And because Kane only had one year left on his deal and is 30, we got much less for him than he's actually worth. So if we spend all the money on a replacement striker, we'll be worse off.

Had we finished in the top 4 last season, I think a replacement like that would make more sense, but last season we ended up behind teams with no Kane. In general, the success of Newcastle, Brighton and Villa have shown that coaching and a strong squad will take you a long way.

There's a lot of talk about investment on this board, and that's exactly what I think we should do with the Kane money. You don't invest in something that's peaking. You invest in things that are on their way up. We have to rebuild and accept that it's going to take a bit of time. And to not derail too much from topic, I think Orban is a perfect signing in that regard.

I agree but we intentionally asked for 80£ million up front that surely means we are going after more than 2/3 players in the 20/30 mill range.

Vlahovic for example is rumoured to be around 60/80 million euros. We could add him, the torino CB and Olise and not be ridiculous over the Kane money total.

 

[Stamford]

And just because something hasn't worked out in the past it doesn't mean that it will work out in the future. Moving away from the strategy of signing up and coming players is a large reason for our recent downfall. If we hadn't seen ourselves as too big for the likes of Maddison and Eze when we were first linked to them, there's every chance we would've been in a better state now. A player's transfer fee means fuck all, as proven time and time and time and again by us and by the bigger clubs.

We should always always sign up and coming players but we should also spend big occasionally that's all I'm saying. The transfer fee is slightly relevant but more so are the wages which is why we are never in the convo for the players we really want and need

 

[The Scarecrow]

I agree but we intentionally asked for 80£ million up front that surely means we are going after more than 2/3 players in the 20/30 mill range.

Vlahovic for example is rumoured to be around 60/80 million euros. We could add him, the torino CB and Olise and not be ridiculous over the Kane money total.

Vlahovic is a risk, though.

 

[barry]

Vlahovic is a risk, though.

Huge risk. Pure goal scorer, on terrible form, who hasn't got many other decent attributes, from my limited viewings.

 

[Mattspurs1982]

Vlahovic is a risk, though.

pretty sure the ITK ruled him out a few weeks ago

 

[Real_madyidd]

I’m not sure what you mean? People complain that our big signings have been flops? Is that unlucky? Is it because we have flip flopped between styles of play? Is it because we haven’t done proper background checks on things like attitude.

Unfortunately not everything works out so I don’t get why we should settle for 2/3 potentials. How come Man City seem to have so many hits when paying large sums?

I’m not saying every player has to be 100 million. However if the opportunity to buy someone for that arises and would fit our team, we can’t be scared to pull the trigger because we might get burned.

We have a total REVENUE of 444M. Since we have to be self sustaining (no oil state or sugar daddy) we cannot splash 1/4 of that amount on one player (just the purchase price- not even wages which would be massive).

 

[Scot-Spur]

Huge risk. Pure goal scorer, on terrible form, who hasn't got many other decent attributes, from my limited viewings.

Who isn’t a risk? He’s 23, played around 30 games last year and got something like 10 goals. He was injured and struggled to regain form after the injury.

This system literally needs a pure goalscorer, He also works his ass off. Not sure what other attributes you want from a CF apart from being a pure goalscorer?

 

[funkycoldmedina]

pretty sure the ITK ruled him out a few weeks ago

@Hercules said no chance I think........an hour after I'd stuck a tenner on him

 

[barry]

Who isn’t a risk? He’s 23, played around 30 games last year and got something like 10 goals. He was injured and struggled to regain form after the injury.

This system literally needs a pure goalscorer, He also works his ass off. Not sure what other attributes you want from a CF apart from being a pure goalscorer?

So he's a risk. We agree. You're the one who is risk averse, but wants to spend more money on someone I deem a bigger risk.

 

[Scot-Spur]

So he's a risk. We agree. You're the one who is risk averse, but wants to spend more money on someone I deem a bigger risk.

Well correct and the key in your post is the word “I”.

You see him to be a bigger risk, I merely said every signing has an element of risk attached.

You have your own opinion, and in your own words is based on your limited viewing. Of course you are going to deem him high risk if you have hardly watched him play.

 

[barry]

Well correct and the key in your post is the word “I”.

You see him to be a bigger risk, I merely said every signing has an element of risk attached.

You have your own opinion, and in your own words is based on your limited viewing. Of course you are going to deem him high risk if you have hardly watched him play.

Juve fans think he's been pretty pony since he joined. Could be the manager, but how many good seasons did he have in Florence before?
I watched him at fiorentina a few times when we were linked, never impressed me really, but I understood he was a goal scorer. Now he's in bad form I'd rather not be the club to rehab him for 80m

 

[Dakes]

Rather him and a decent defender than Lukaka and Lenglet. If it's the latter, I don't know man.

 

[arunspurs]

Who isn’t a risk? He’s 23, played around 30 games last year and got something like 10 goals. He was injured and struggled to regain form after the injury.

This system literally needs a pure goalscorer, He also works his ass off. Not sure what other attributes you want from a CF apart from being a pure goalscorer?

Vlahovic has scored 4 league goals since October 2022. Yes he was injured but then struggled also for months.
The 10 goals he scored all came against relegated/lower half teams.

If we pay 70m, and he scores 10goals like last season, he is a failure.

If you pay 25m for Orban at 21 yrs age.... If he even gets 10 goal a season, we can recoup what we paid.

For 70m, we need certainty - we dont need 'lets hope he does it in Ange system'.

Also, I am basing this on what Juve fans themselves said on Vlahovic

 

[muppetman]

Rather him and a decent defender than Lukaka and Lenglet. If it's the latter, I don't know man.

Rather stick with what we have than Lukaku - dreadful fit for what we are trying to do. Probably smash em in for West Ham though.

 

[BathYid]

Rather stick with what we have than Lukaku - dreadful fit for what we are trying to do. Probably smash em in for West Ham though.

Can't think of a striker less suited to the way Ange plays than Lukaku

 

[Scot-Spur]

Vlahovic has scored 4 league goals since October 2022. Yes he was injured but then struggled also for months.
The 10 goals he scored all came against relegated/lower half teams.

If we pay 70m, and he scores 10goals like last season, he is a failure.

If you pay 25m for Orban at 21 yrs age.... If he even gets 10 goal a season, we can recoup what we paid.

For 70m, we need certainty - we dont need 'lets hope he does it in Ange system'.

Also, I am basing this on what Juve fans themselves said on Vlahovic

What did Juve fans say about Kulu or Lolo? I agree in parts but basing things of what fans say is a bit hit or miss. Juve fans will hate the whole team the way they performed last year.

 

[barry]

What did Juve fans say about Kulu or Lolo? I agree in parts but basing things of what fans say is a bit hit or miss. Juve fans will hate the whole team the way they performed last year.

I get that and I'd take the risk for 40 - 50m, but 80 is too rich for potential for me.

 

[arunspurs]

What did Juve fans say about Kulu or Lolo? I agree in parts but basing things of what fans say is a bit hit or miss. Juve fans will hate the whole team the way they performed last year.

I am not completely against Vlahovic too. Afterall, he has been prolific in general in Serie A for 2 other seasons.
For me its about what we spend on him.

If we get a great deal and we are able to invest rest on Tapsoba great. Also, I get the feeling that Orban is once in a generation talent . If we miss him out now, I think we will regret.

 

[rawhide]

Our ambition if we get Orban is to be a mid table club. Look at other teams that fight for top 5. they go big on the top players, When we sell our biggest asset we smallball because of incompetence in previous recrutment. Liverpool goes 45+ on 3 midfielders in one window, but hey 25m on Gift orban will make us challange, fuck sake wake up

You’ve completely misunderstood the fight for top 4. Liverpool aren’t fighting for top 4, they’re fighting to win the League and Champions League (yes I know not this season). They know to do that, they will need to be around the same level as Man City. So they are spending money to get to/stay at that sort of level. Same with Arsenal and United. The “fight for top 4” teams are a level below - Newcastle, Villa, maybe even Chelsea. That’s who we are competing with.

And yes I know that I listed 4 clubs as competing for the League, but that’s because that’ll be one of their goals for the season. We aren’t even considering that as a goal. So we really shouldn’t be comparing ourselves to what they are doing.

This is also why we will struggle to make top 4, regardless of the Kane situation. We aren’t actively competing with top 4 teams. We are hoping to be the team that takes advantage of a poor season from one of them.

 

[Styopa]

I am not completely against Vlahovic too. Afterall, he has been prolific in general in Serie A for 2 other seasons.
For me its about what we spend on him.

If we get a great deal and we are able to invest rest on Tapsoba great. Also, I get the feeling that Orban is once in a generation talent . If we miss him out now, I think we will regret.

I agree in general, I wouldn't be against him, especially if Ange rates him. But...

He had a prolific season a couple of years ago when he scored 20 in 24 matches. But his other seasons at Fiorentina/Juve have been:

8 in 34 matches
21 in 40 matches,
9 in 21 matches
14 in 42 matches.

3 of those above 4 seasons are pretty much Richarlison's Everton numbers.