Gift Orban

[KILLA_SIN]

I’m not making a criticism, I know little of either player. I’m just guessing what the situation is/will be and why.

Sorry I didn't mean it come across like that I should have said with at least Veliz

 

[KingNick]

At least Veliz has scored against the biggest teams in Argentina in the toughest atmosphere in world football.

Veliz is undoubtedly top class. Far more senior experience than Orban already. Voted to be in the top ten of u20 players in the world.

and we paid much less than they are asking for Orban.

can easily see the reluctance to pay more when there is better value elsewhere (the Herc South American ITK perhaps…)

 

[robotsonic]

I don’t know why people are so obsessed with the fee. The market is the market. Unless you analyse European football for a living……..

I think because we're talking about a player that's almost unquantifiable in terms of value and potential. The market is the market, but it's usually based upon more than 1 year of professional football in the player's whole life. There is almost no fee that makes sense for the player once you get beyond about £5m, as anything else is just a crapshoot because he has no history to go by for anyone to track any trajectory or background, only that he is currently doing it at a certain level but has only done so for a very short period of time. Once you talk about 10's of millions, it starts to look a big risk for any club, as that's sitting on the books, though it's almost less of a risk for more middling clubs as there's more of a chance that he hits the level that they need for it to be value. We'd need him to hit an extremely high level for the value to be achieved, and if it's not hit the value drops like a lead balloon.

 

[philll]

But if Ange wants him is that not reason enough?

My read of it is that Ange might or might not be that keen on Johnson but Levy sees an opportunity to get rid of a couple of players as part of the deal so is pushing for it.

 

[THOWIG]

Probably a Levy/Club Signing as opposed to Ange's top choice?

Ah ok thank you

 

[KILLA_SIN]

Veliz is undoubtedly top class. Far more senior experience than Orban already. Voted to be in the top ten of u20 players in the world.

and we paid much less than they are asking for Orban.

can easily see the reluctance to pay more when there is better value elsewhere (the Herc South American ITK perhaps…)

I think if your going to get excited about a player get excited about the one we already signed.

 

[the yid]

What I will say on this guy is I do feel he is a risk. Could be the next George Weah and equally might not make the step up at all. I'm all for paying whatever it takes to bring in key players in positions of need but I make us right for not wanting to over pay for what is without question a punt. Its high risk but could be high reward. I totally get the caution involved on this one. If the price is right and we have moved on the necessary, I do think we could move on this one.

Whilst I absolutely agree I also think going into the season with Richy as our only striker option is a bigger risk.

 

[KingNick]

I think if you’re going to get excited about a player get excited about the one we already signed.

Exactly.

Also, Ange said Veliz would need time to settle before contributing. Can’t see why it would be any different with Orban who has far less senior experience. It’s not like Veliz can’t handle the physical side.

not seen any of the “Orban in” crowd, saying anything about this.

 

[Ghost Hardware]

What I will say on this guy is I do feel he is a risk. Could be the next George Weah and equally might not make the step up at all. I'm all for paying whatever it takes to bring in key players in positions of need but I make us right for not wanting to over pay for what is without question a punt. It’s high risk but could be high reward. I totally get the caution involved on this one. If the price is right and we have moved on the necessary, I do think we could move on this one.

My only thing with Orban is the same feelings I’ve had since the day we were first linked. He looks a prospect but he’s very far from being a starter for us and if we get him I hope he is given plenty of time and patience. He shouldn’t be seen as some wonderkid who will be straight away fighting for a starting spot. Really he needs a loan to another league that’s a level above his current where he’s playing week in week out. Fact is we are not going to spend €30+ mil on a player and loan him out especially when we are short up top. Essentially I wouldn’t want to be in a position were we have to rely on him just yet. He looks a talent, he obviously has incredible raw ability and a lot of potential but i think some are overestimating his current level.

 

[KILLA_SIN]

Elye Wahi who we were linked to just moved to Lens for 30M apparently its the second highest transfer between French clubs he scored 19 and 10 the previous season . Lois Openda [23] scored 21 and moved to RBL for 45M. He scored 10 and 18 in the Eredevisie for Vitesse in the 2 previous years. So its taken 3 years before he stepped up to Bundesliga.

Orban to EPL in less than year, no chance, plenty of other players that we can compare against what he is worth and the market is not 30m for a player from Belgium with one season under his belt

Should be a lot more interest in Orban from clubs around Europe but his price is inflated and they are waiting to see how he progresses

 

[lukadownthelane]

I think because we're talking about a player that's almost unquantifiable in terms of value and potential. The market is the market, but it's usually based upon more than 1 year of professional football in the player's whole life. There is almost no fee that makes sense for the player once you get beyond about £5m, as anything else is just a crapshoot because he has no history to go by for anyone to track any trajectory or background, only that he is currently doing it at a certain level but has only done so for a very short period of time. Once you talk about 10's of millions, it starts to look a big risk for any club, as that's sitting on the books, though it's almost less of a risk for more middling clubs as there's more of a chance that he hits the level that they need for it to be value. We'd need him to hit an extremely high level for the value to be achieved, and if it's not hit the value drops like a lead balloon.

I understand your logic but I just don’t understand why anyone cares about that. I’m not having a dig, it just doesn’t make sense to me. I support the team on the pitch - I don’t care about value speculation.

The club have sold out best player and attacker. We should have money to spend on that area of the team and we should have done it by now.

We should be trusting the scouting/ analysis to find the player we want. If Orban is truly the player we have identified then we should have him in the squad. We’re not taking £80m.

 

[KingNick]

I understand your logic but I just don’t understand why anyone cares about that. I’m not having a dig, it just doesn’t make sense to me. I support the team on the pitch - I don’t care about value speculation.

The club have sold out best player and attacker. We should have money to spend on that area of the team and we should have done it by now.

We should be trusting the scouting/ analysis to find the player we want. If Orban is truly the player we have identified then we should have him in the squad. We’re not taking £80m.

And is not the logical conclusion to that that they haven’t decided he is exactly what we need and have their own concerns?

 

[Ben1]

I understand your logic but I just don’t understand why anyone cares about that. I’m not having a dig, it just doesn’t make sense to me. I support the team on the pitch - I don’t care about value speculation.

The club have sold out best player and attacker. We should have money to spend on that area of the team and we should have done it by now.

We should be trusting the scouting/ analysis to find the player we want. If Orban is truly the player we have identified then we should have him in the squad. We’re not taking £80m.

Is there any evidence they have identified him as that player, if so I haven’t heard it. He’s most likely just an option, one that’s gone public and snowballed. On fees, I can’t really get worked up over what we pay, but it’s certainly something that’s considered when finding targets.

 

[Dunc2610]

Do we know if we're still even talking to Gent, or has it actually just fallen on it's ass?

 

[lukadownthelane]

And is not the logical conclusion to that that they haven’t decided he is exactly what we need and have their own concerns?

I agree. However we should have identified that person by now.

 

[DenverSpur]

Yeah I wasn't convinced from the outset, but yeah looked out of his depth against Wham

In fairness he didn’t get much service. Was feeding off scraps but nothing he did stood out.

 

[TheAmerican]

Elye Wahi who we were linked to just moved to Lens for 30M apparently its the second highest transfer between French clubs he scored 19 and 10 the previous season . Lois Openda [23] scored 21 and moved to RBL for 45M. He scored 10 and 18 in the Eredevisie for Vitesse in the 2 previous years. So its taken 3 years before he stepped up to Bundesliga.

Orban to EPL in less than year, no chance, plenty of other players that we can compare against what he is worth and the market is not 30m for a player from Belgium with one season under his belt

Should be a lot more interest in Orban from clubs around Europe but his price is inflated and they are waiting to see how he progresses

Some players seem to always step up to the level they’re introduced to. It’s almost as if the better their competition, the better they are. It draws something from them.

I have no justification for it, but I think Orban has that. He’s made the leap each time and I don’t think that will stop. I’d much rather take a shot at him than some of the others we’ve been linked with. I will be very disappointed if he goes elsewhere within the league.

 

[rossdapep]

In fairness he didn’t get much service. Was feeding off scraps but nothing he did stood out.

I watched this the other day and it looked like the level was very much above him IMO.

Tactically and technically

 

[totty]

To put things into perspective,
Vincent Janssen is now topscorer in Belgium with 4 goals and Orban on 2.

Last season, Janssen scored 16 and Orban had 8.

How many of us can claim to see Orban play 5 full matches, not Youtube highlights?

Would Orban walk into the first XI atm?

Be rational, do not let your disdain for certain individuals (Levy/Richy/Johnson) cloud your judgement.

There’s the Dakas and Odsonne Eduoards of this world who came into the PL and flopped.

Even Shevchenko couldn’t cut it on a wet night in Stoke

 

[rabbikeane]

To put things into perspective,
Vincent Janssen is now topscorer in Belgium with 4 goals and Orban on 2.

Last season, Janssen scored 16 and Orban had 8.

How many of us can claim to see Orban play 5 full matches, not Youtube highlights?

Would Orban walk into the first XI atm?

Be rational, do not let your disdain for certain individuals (Levy/Richy/Johnson) cloud your judgement.

There’s the Dakas and Odsonne Eduoards of this world who came into the PL and flopped.

Even Shevchenko couldn’t cut it on a wet night in Stoke

Belgian league is structured with play off towards the end of the season, 9 was in the initial league but he also scored 6 in the play off rounds.
What's important to mention when you say the fairly low number is how many games it was from; the 9 was from 10 games and the 6 was from 6 games.
He's close to a 1 in 1 goal scorer so far in his career, also in UEFA competitions.

Vincent Janssen has started the season on fire, while I suspect Orban might feel the weight of the transfer speculation.
Janssen is however scoring 1 every other game so far in Belgian football, like Jonathan David used to do.
Gift Orban has had twice as good goal ratio.