Grass roots youth and gender classification

[BringBack_leGin]

Tough post to read @Trix , can’t imagine the situation the coach is in. As others have said, all I can think is that ‘if they’re good enough, they’d play’ and put it on the parents to prove that their kid is getting any kind of rough treatment or being discriminated against in selections.

On the overall notion of girls v boys assist, of course a girl or woman who is good enough to play at a decent level will run rings around all the average Joe’s that make up 99.9% of boys and men who play football, I learnt that first hand at uni when my mates and I were almost beaten by a 5 aside girls team all made up from the women’s first xi and we were two men’s thirds, an actor, a rugby player and me. However, when it’s a case of your average untalented female v your average untalented male, fitness levels being similar, the string, faster, usually taller person will have an advantage. There’s a reason why we notice the mercurial gifted smaller players in the men’s game, because to make it they had to have something special to give them an edge v physically superior beings.

 

[Shanks]

Wow what a shit show to be in the middle of.

Sounds like a tough one.

There is no way on earth a female would be anywhere near the standard of my lads team the same age, 14/15 year olds are hitting puberty and growing stronger. My lad is 6ft at 14 now, so physically a girl wouldn’t get anywhere near him.

Mind you last the year before last his u13 team played the ladies u18 team (academy) and the u13’s boys won with ease, which surprised me actually considering the standard of pro females is getting better.

Presume you have a welfare officer at your club, maybe call them in and meet with parents to discuss, leaving gender aside, explain what you want from the boys - high intensity, physically controlling areas of the pitch, strength and aggression in both defence and offence, and that the team will be picked on performances in training alone, currently the girl isn’t at the standard so won’t get minutes over the better standard players, so as a solution offer to play with her own gender (giving that will have to happen at some point), failing that look for a team more suitable to their standard.

 

[Geyzer Soze]

Epidemic doesn't mean it's only just started, although probably epidemic is not the best word to use here. Use "concerning trend"


It doesn't but it many cases those girls are then taking the next step in the gender dysphoria journey which is surgical and hormone treatment based, at an age where the impacts of this can be irreversible later in life.

Why do so many teenage girls want to change gender? - Prospect Magazine

In the last 10 years, there has been an extraordinary increase in teenagers seeking to transition from female to male. What's behind it—and has the NHS been too quick to find a solution?

www.prospectmagazine.co.uk

We used to call them Tomboys, rememuber? The vast majority of whom are perfectly happy adult women now, probably pretty pleased that they weren't brainwashed into having surgical and hormonal enhancements during puberty ?. Those that aren't can make those immense decisions when they become adults and are a bit more attuned to self

 

[EighteenEightyTwo]

It sounds like he would benefit from being in a non-competitive mixed team. But if he is enjoying training and trying to compete then that's fine. Is the concern just from the parents or is he saying it to the coaches himself that he's struggling with the physicality?

 

[Trix]

It sounds like he would benefit from being in a non-competitive mixed team. But if he is enjoying training and trying to compete then that's fine. Is the concern just from the parents or is he saying it to the coaches himself that he's struggling with the physicality?

This is the thing, the child doesn't even call them selves he or she.

Honestly it's really confusing for an old schooler like myself. It's pretty crazy that the coach can't even say stuff like "well played guys" at the end of training, because he's been told it may offend one individual. It's like he said having a girl in the squad would be no issue as he'd just say boys and girls, and now he's having to refer to them constantly as "team". Sounds trivial but in the heat of a game it's a lot harder to do, having to constantly think about what he's saying.

 

[wirE]

Actress Ellen Page came out as a transgender today. “Elliot Page”

 

[Trix]

Actress Ellen Page came out as a transgender today. “Elliot Page”

Coolio, how does this help?

 

[Dillspur]

This is the thing, the child doesn't even call them selves he or she.

Honestly it's really confusing for an old schooler like myself. It's pretty crazy that the coach can't even say stuff like "well played guys" at the end of training, because he's been told it may offend one individual. It's like he said having a girl in the squad would be no issue as he'd just say boys and girls, and now he's having to refer to them constantly as "team". Sounds trivial but in the heat of a game it's a lot harder to do, having to constantly think about what he's saying.

They or them is usually used for non-binary, it takes getting used to. And honestly I thinks guys can be used in a non-binary way, I've referred to a mixed group of people as guys and I've heard women use it too.

 

[Trix]

They or them is usually used for non-binary, it takes getting used to. And honestly I thinks guys can be used in a non-binary way, I've referred to a mixed group of people as guys and I've heard women use it too.

Yeah it's complicated. If I'm honest I don't personally believe it's even a thing. I mean in that for me you are biologically one or the other. That said I'm perfectly happy to try to use what ever terminology that makes that person feel comfortable. The issue for me is like you say it takes some getting used to and is certainly not something that comes naturally especially to older generations. As such I actively try to avoid conversation with the child in question and it's parents because it's easier than getting it wrong.

 

[UncleBuck]

This is the thing, the child doesn't even call them selves he or she.

Honestly it's really confusing for an old schooler like myself. It's pretty crazy that the coach can't even say stuff like "well played guys" at the end of training, because he's been told it may offend one individual. It's like he said having a girl in the squad would be no issue as he'd just say boys and girls, and now he's having to refer to them constantly as "team". Sounds trivial but in the heat of a game it's a lot harder to do, having to constantly think about what he's saying.

Really sounds like the parents are the driving force behind this, any way you guys can find out how they were handled at their previous club on the quiet?
Back in the day you’d have been told to look for another club on the basis you weren’t good enough but quite clearly your club will open up a can a worms if you went down that route, what about getting in contact with the local FA and see if you can get them involved seeing as they are in paid positions of responsibility and not doing it on a voluntary basis...

 

[scat1620]

As such I actively try to avoid conversation with the child in question and it's parents because it's easier than getting it wrong.

I consider myself under-educated on trans issues and therefore usually avoid commenting on them because I don't know what I'm talking about, but even so I do feel the need to point out that it's probably a bit insensitive to refer to the kid as an "it" in that sentence: "and their parents" would supply the common courtesy of recognising the subject of your sentence as a human rather than an "it".

If you were typing that sentence out about another boy or girl in the teams and didn't use "his/her parents", I'm sure you would have typed "their parents" instead of "its parents". Would be a good place to start as an easy win for being appropriately sensitive.

 

[Trix]

I consider myself under-educated on trans issues and therefore usually avoid commenting on them because I don't know what I'm talking about, but even so I do feel the need to point out that it's probably a bit insensitive to refer to the kid as an "it" in that sentence: "and their parents" would supply the common courtesy of recognising the subject of your sentence as a human rather than an "it".

If you were typing that sentence out about another boy or girl in the teams and didn't use "his/her parents", I'm sure you would have typed "their parents" instead of "its parents". Would be a good place to start as an easy win for being appropriately sensitive.

I don't disagree. Certainly not trying to offend. Fact is stuff like this is a fucking minefield for a guy like myself.

 

[Shanks]

Trix you ain’t the only one mate, I’d struggle myself as well.

Maybe approaching the local FA is a good step to take, it sounds that this may end up with w complaint being raised, so maybe making them aware of the situation, but also and as hard as it is, just tell the parents this ‘person’ isn’t good enough to start and physically not developed enough to hold their own in training.

 

[Hakkz]

This is the thing, the child doesn't even call them selves he or she.

Honestly it's really confusing for an old schooler like myself. It's pretty crazy that the coach can't even say stuff like "well played guys" at the end of training, because he's been told it may offend one individual. It's like he said having a girl in the squad would be no issue as he'd just say boys and girls, and now he's having to refer to them constantly as "team". Sounds trivial but in the heat of a game it's a lot harder to do, having to constantly think about what he's saying.

Reading all this makes me wonder how much of this is actually the choice of the kid and how much is the parents convincing him.

 

[Geyzer Soze]

Reading all this makes me wonder how much of this is actually the choice of the kid and how much is the parents convincing him.

Exactly. Parents are supposed to provide guidance, discipline and structure to their children. Kids are confused and impressionable by their nature, that's why they are kids. They don't have the emotional or intellectual intelligence to make these kinds of decisions. Certainly not before puberty anyway. Kids needs guidance not exploitation to a parents wokely neurotic ends, which is what this sounds like

Sure, if they show signs of a gender mis match then support them, educate them (and yourself`) on the matter ... observe, support ... but don't be making decisions on their part. If and when they get to 20 or 23 or even 16 or whatever and still feel the same, then they can take their own decisions ... and support them ... but there is age of majority for voting, sex, smoking, drinking, fighting for your country, going to prison .. many other things. Why? Because it's generally considered over the course of human history that some decisions are either too difficult or too serious for people to make until a certain age. Why is this not considered one of those?

 

[Gareth88]

Sorry if its been said before or if I have missed the point but the parents have to be parents in this situation. If your child wants to be non-binary thats fine but they have to educate their child that there can be physical differences between men(boys) and women(girls) and going ‘hard’ in training can be good preparation for match days (as long as its not targeted towards just one person) as others teams dont know or care about you they just want to win. I feel like if the child in question is working hard give them a run out you have to earn your place in the team nothing is gifted to you in life and its actually a very valuable life lesson.

 

[mr ashley]

Sounds like a very challenging situation that is testing the clubs policy and making the (no doubt) volunteer coaches life hard work.
I’ve got a couple of questions about the club ethos

Is there anything specific about game time for players who are selected in a match day squad? I’m fully aware that some clubs will have subs who don’t get a game, or just a token few minutes. If the player in question has been left on the bench repeatedly then the parents could (quite rightly) have a grievance about playing time/ opportunity.

If the player hasn’t been selected for a match day squad (no idea how big the squad is/ whether your age group has more than one team etc), has there been a conversation between coach and parent about why they’ve not been selected, and potentially what the player needs to do to improve?

If all those things have happened (and happen regularly with all players), then there really doesn’t sound like there’s any cause for complaint. Like most have said, all teams run on merit so ability will shine through.
I’d recommend that your coach speaks to the club welfare officer for assistance, and have a conversation with the parents that is solely about the players ability.

Good luck

 

[Hakkz]

I bet the parents are going to go to the local media and have a cry if they don't get what they want.

 

[Yid-ol]

I bet the parents are going to go to the local media and have a cry if they don't get what they want.

Then go back and cry to the papers if/when they do play the kid and they are even rough with them!

I think all this non gender thing is going to really blow up in a few years. Imagine is someone that's good at their sport (say athletics) but not the best, but decides they are now non gender or female, then goes over and wins everything.

 

[Hakkz]

Then go back and cry to the papers if/when they do play the kid and they are even rough with them!

I think all this non gender thing is going to really blow up in a few years. Imagine is someone that's good at their sport (say athletics) but not the best, but decides they are now non gender or female, then goes over and wins everything.

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