How come Spurs are doing so well?

[Lilbaz]

Can no-one ever say "gel" again? That's my dying wish.

We're waiting for them to brylcream.

 

[hodsgod]

How are we doing well? We are behind both Liverpool and Everton, both teams that were inferior to us last season.
We were dead on fifth last year; not so sure this year, and we still have a stronger squad than either of those teams currently. I accept that we are on par with last year but to say we are better is a joke.

We may have a stronger squad than Liverpool, but I don't believe we have a stronger first eleven. We can't compete with their forwards at all.

 

[Lilbaz]

We may have a stronger squad than Liverpool, but I don't believe we have a stronger first eleven. We can't compete with their forwards at all.

If our players played to their potential we do. Just haven't seen it yet.

 

[hodsgod]

If our players played to their potential we do. Just haven't seen it yet.

Let's just talk about what we know, because potential is unquantifiable. Are you also assuming Liverpool, players are all playing to their maximum potential?

 

[Lilbaz]

Let's just talk about what we know, because potential is unquantifiable. Are you also assuming Liverpool, players are all playing to their maximum potential?

I'm talking about previous history. Lamela in italy, soldado in spain, pauli brazil etc... If they can get back to that level our first team matches liverpool.
We have some fantastic players. I wouldn't give up on them yet.

 

[WexfordTownSpur]

Wexford, you're not getting this 'lucky' concept at all, are you? Passing over for a moment that the entire notion of 'luck' is total bullshit and, just as an exercise, taking it at face value, it's ridiculous to suggest that we've been 'lucky' because we had a few penalties this season, after having zero last season. It's the equivalent of saying how great it feels when someone stops hitting you, i.e., it's remote from reality.

It is totally implausible for a football team to win two thirds of their matches based on being 'lucky'. We've won two thirds of our matches because our squad is so good that we've even managed to win matches despite long periods of boring play, an unresolved, constipated tactical approach and a change of management mid-season.

A lot of people here really have no idea how good our players are. They fetishise every individual error and completely lose sight of the depth and quality of what we are putting on the pitch every week. The result is that all they can come up with to credit our position is 'luck', which (as I wrote above) isn't an explanation at all, it's an admission that you don't have an explanation.

Ok, you are in fact correct. I have no idea playing the way we have this year, why we are only a couple of points off 4th and apparently on track for our best points tally ever? Yes indeed it baffles me, so I thought maybe some of it is down to the rub of the green.

 

[Flashspur]

You just know with this magic ingredient....it all comes together...patience lads

 

[Mullers]

However long you think is needed to get new players performing is irrelevant it's what Levy thinks that counts in terms of why AVB got sacked, which is after all the question you asked. Besides nobody is suggesting they all turn into world beaters in a few months just that they perform and suggest that the manager can get the best out of them. That can't possibly be said of the two most expensive signings we made.

No it is not irrelevant, you said
'They had time or at least they had as much time as Levy was prepared to allow.'
I dispute that they have had enough time or that levy allowed them enough time.

Yes, I was referring to those games, you then went on about Sherwood losing 3 in a row which I didn't mention and is entirely irrelevant anyway to whether AVB should have been sacked or not. You're referring to a different manager as if all managers have exactly the same criteria for remaining in a job when they clearly don't. Not to mention we didn't just lose those games, we lost them 14-0.

To be clear I was asking if Sherwood lose 3 games to our local and direct rivals should he be sacked? As this was one of the reasons you gave for AVB's sacking. There is no aggregate score, they are all different games, we lost one game, 5-0 another 6-0 and another 3-0
If Sherwood ventured down a similar path to AVB in a similar time frame, I would expect him to be sacked if Levy is being consistant.

Your 3rd point : You're equating a shit half against Palace under Sherwood to the standard 90 minute fare for half a season under AVB. They're utterly unconnected. The reasons AVB got sacked have nothing to do with Sherwood and Sherwoods performance has nothing to do with why AVB got sacked.

I'm saying that the first half was dull, should games continue in a similar vein, I'd expected him to be sacked even if he gets results according to reason you gave.

Your 4th point. Seriously ???? You think that a chairman, who watches his side struggle all season to score goals when there's a guy costing him a fortune in wages sat twiddling his thumbs because the manager's got the hump with him, wouldn't give a crap about the situation ? Nobody bar the top 2 or 3 managers can get away with that shit and not expect to have to explain themselves to the chairman.

The amount of wages Ade gets paid had nothing to do with AVB and it should not be a factor in whether he plays or not.
AVB for whatever reason/s decided not play Ade, the chairman as a right to enquire what has happened but not demand that the coach puts him in the team.

Basically you asked for reasons, I gave them but you don't like them so now you're arguing the toss about them as if they have to be valid reasons in your mind before they actually become the reasons he was sacked.

I don't know if the reasons you gave were reasons for his sacking, whether they were or not of course I will dispute them if I don't agree with them, that's what the forum is for.

 

[Mullers]

No, you just don't like the "why".

Levy has, like the rest of us, no idea if Sherwoods the man for the job, hence the short contract. What's so wrong with that ? It's the middle of the season, there's no standout candidate to come in at the moment, what else was he meant to do ? He could have sat there with AVB I guess even though he'd clearly lost all confidence in the man and then if come May we were lingering around 7th he'd get it in the neck as well.

No, I don't know why he was sacked.
The rest of us are not the Spurs chairman, Levy is, he should have a damn good idea about whether he thinks Sherwood is the man for the job or not.
His statement said

"We have a great squad and we owe them a Head Coach who will bring out the best in them and allow them to flourish and enjoy a strong, exciting finish to the season.
"We are in the fortunate position of having within our Club a talented coach in Tim Sherwood.
"We believe Tim has both the knowledge and the drive to take the squad forward."
http://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/news/tim-sherwood-appointed-head-coach-231213/
Those statements suggest that he does think Tim is the man for the job, but clearly this is just window dressing as the length of contract suggests he clearly doesn't think he is up to it. He should have just made him caretaker manager until the end of the season in that case.
He could have tasked Baldini with finding the head coach, I assume that this is one of the tasks a DOF would do.
So Levy would get in the neck if we came 7th,boo hoo. If he didn't think AVB was up for it he should have got rid him in the summer, rather than pressing the panic button so early in the season and appointing a 'talented coach' that he doesn't think is up to the job.

 

[CowInAComa]

Let's just talk about what we know, because potential is unquantifiable. Are you also assuming Liverpool, players are all playing to their maximum potential?

Liverpool are 2 points in front of us?

We have more gears to go up then they do, I do think they are playing near to their best.

 

[hodsgod]

I'm talking about previous history. Lamela in italy, soldado in spain, pauli brazil etc... If they can get back to that level our first team matches liverpool.
We have some fantastic players. I wouldn't give up on them yet.

The key words are in Italy and in Spain. They aren't there anymore. I haven't given up on anyone. I just judge them in the current league and team they are playing in. You ignored my question, do you assume liverpools squad are playing at their full potential?

 

[hodsgod]

Liverpool are 2 points in front of us?

We have more gears to go up then they do, I do think they are playing near to their best.

This blind optimism amazes me, because I haven't seen these extra gears yet this season, I hope they are there but I just haven't seen it. I have been watching Spurs since 1973, and I know this mythical potential very often never matures. That's why I judge on what I have seen, not what I hope.

 

[Booney]

Don't believe the argument that luck isn't important. How else did Arsenal get top?

 

[JollyHappy]

I'd hate to mix up threads here but could our better away form have anything to do with the players being more relaxed or able to follow game plans compared to the crowd reaction at home where any pass which isn't forward is met with, at best, a large collective sigh and at worst abuse at the player in question.

 

[CowInAComa]

This blind optimism amazes me, because I haven't seen these extra gears yet this season, I hope they are there but I just haven't seen it. I have been watching Spurs since 1973, and I know this mythical potential very often never matures. That's why I judge on what I have seen, not what I hope.

January blues.

I dont believe for a second that our summer signing have come close to hitting their top form for us. And at some point we must start seeing their quality come through, in particular, Soldado, Lamela and Paulinho.

I also dont believe that the return from injury of some of our key players wont give us something extra.

Therefore, I think we have the potential to go up through a number of gears.

Whether we will or not, I dont fucking know. But its there. (I personally think law of averages says we will at some point hit some proper form)

 

[Bobbins]

The poorer sides this season are very, very poor in most cases. It's the weakest Premiership bottom 12 in years.

We've had some dodgy penalties.

Our defence hasn't been as bad as people who hate Dawson and Walker would have you believe - it was just awful for a handful of games.

Probably some other stuff.

 

[Spurs_Bear]

The poorer sides this season are very, very poor in most cases. It's the weakest Premiership bottom 12 in years.

We've had some dodgy penalties.

Our defence hasn't been as bad as people who hate Dawson and Walker would have you believe - it was just awful for a handful of games.

Probably some other stuff.

Absolutely. And the top 6 aint all that either as a collective.

 

[ultimateloner]

We may have a stronger squad than Liverpool, but I don't believe we have a stronger first eleven. We can't compete with their forwards at all.

Yes Suarez is the top PL player currently. That doesn't mean, as you've already said, that they have a stronger squad than ours. IMO ours is still better and in the end PL performance is dependent on squad.
I think we have a stronger starting 11 overall. I mean who in their team would get into our First 11? IMO only Sahko/Coutinho/Suarez.

Sturrdige isn't better than Ade. Everyone else is inferior to what we have.

 

[Greenspur]

Lloris' exceptional quality is not about making amazing saves. It's about denying the opposition chances by dint of his extraordinary speed and mobility and thus avoiding having to make many saves at all. He gets to the ball before an advancing attacker at least 3-6 times in every match. And he makes it look routine.

The apparent lapses of judgment are the flip-side of his ambitious approach to commanding his box and I'm more than content that he saves a hell of a lot more goals by being so pro-active than he costs us.

Knowing that you are a pedant, like myself, I think you would approve of me pointing out that a goal cannot be saved.

 

[hodsgod]

Yes Suarez is the top PL player currently. That doesn't mean, as you've already said, that they have a stronger squad than ours. IMO ours is still better and in the end PL performance is dependent on squad.
I think we have a stronger starting 11 overall. I mean who in their team would get into our First 11? IMO only Sahko/Coutinho/Suarez.

Sturrdige isn't better than Ade. Everyone else is inferior to what we have.

I would have Sturridge over Ade every day of the week. His record last season and this is better than Ade. He is a player I really wanted us to sign when Chelsea let him go.

With our injuries Agger would be a good call and Leiva is worth a shout too.