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Is Ramos the catalyst or the mask to Commolli's good work?

FromTheLane

New Member
Jul 3, 2008
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Since the sacking of Jol,Commolli has been cast by the majority of Spurs fans in the role of pantomime villain,with many toeing the line strongly advocated in the media,that Commolli was largely responsible for the downfall of great man due to his manipulative undermining of Jol in the transfer market,leaving the manager's position untenable and the squad unbalanced,before wielding the axe when inevitably the results did not match expections at the start of this season.

I too have been in this boat for a long time,and have been particularly critical in thought,conversation and indeed in writing of Commolli's apparent ineptitude with regards player transfers,with poor business such as Zokora and Boateng for Carrick,the Darren Bent purchase and the lack of left winger being cited as examples of the poor job that he is doing.

But recent developments have made me reconsider;my change of tack is derived essentially from 3 observations,two of which centre around Commolli's work and one on the nature of the transfer market and its increasing complexity.

the first of these is basic: since the arrival of Ramos we have bought extremely well,both with continued investment in quality youth(Bostock,Gunter) and players of the required quality at first team level,in Hutton,Gomes,Modric,Dos Santos etc.Most have dismissed these signings as being Ramos driven(and therefore not to Commolli's credit),but there is a common denominator here;all such players have remarked wholeheartedly on the role of Ramos in attracting them to Spurs ahead of the many other suitors pursuing their signatures,how they respected him and liked his vision for the club etc.

This summer has alerted me to the complexity of the transfer market and how difficult it is in the modern climate to sign players.Our protracted pursuit of Capel has thus far,despite our best efforts,been largely fruitless,while I would not be surprised if the same were true of Arshavin and severaly others who we are rumoured to be attempting to sign.Similarly,the sagas of Adebayor,Ronaldo,Bentley,Villa,Berbatov,Keane and Ronaldinho and,in microcosm Kaboul,Chimbonda and Wright Phillips etc:there are so many variables and determinants in deals nowadays that money,status and good intentions may still not be enough to bring a player to a club.

My point is that there is often an inherent and irrational assumption amongst both Spurs and general football fans that,because our/their club has not signed a given player or been reported to have been trying to do so,the chairman/manager/sporting director are directly culpable and stupid/unfit for the job as so clearly they have failed to see something (such as 'we need a defensive midfielder') that is so blatantly obvious to us,the powerless,yet desperately loyal(and therefore worthy) fans have.But countless examples have shown that not to be the case;Keegan tried to sign Modric and Woodgate this year but was unable to do so due to factorsout of his control.And yet should his reign at Newcastle come to a tragic end due to lack of creativity in midfield and leadership/quality at the back(a not improbable eventuality),then no doubt the Geordie army will bemoan lack of foresight in(seemingly)failing to recognise/address the problem.But this is clearly ridiculous as it is not his/Newcastle's fault that the signings could not be made.

It is now that we must examine Commolli's logic/ability to judge a player.Since his appointment as Sporting Director,we have signed some excellent players,some who have done the business and others who have painfully failed to do so.The likes of Kaboul,Zokora,Boateng,Rose,Taarabt,Pekhart,Dervitte,Ekotto and Ghaly were/are all very good players before they came to Spurs,but equally have all failed to make a positive impact on our first team in the way that they were supposeed to upon their arrivals.So is their 'failure' as condemnation of Commolli's ability to spot a player or merely a reflection of the conditions at the club (manager situation etc) which conspired to prevent them from being able to maximise their potential?

My feeling is that Commolli is a good judge of a player,as Daniel Levy is a very very shrewd man,and one who i doubt would continue to employ an incompetant to such an important position.It is here that Ramos comes in;i reckon that it is Ramos who has proven to be the catalyst to turn Commolli's good intention and judging ability into action.Whereas before,we could not attract players such as Modric and Dos Santos due to Spurs not being a big enough 'pull' with Jol at the helm,Ramos' reputation goes before him/the club now,allowing us to compete at the very top of the market for such players.The shift can be illustrated by the fact that last year we were desperate to sign Nani,but were beaten to it by the bigger lure of Man Utd;and yet this year,with a similar player in Dos Santos we pulled it off despite the interest of such a club.

While it is very difficult to know what goes on behind the scenes,and how much of positive/negative influence Commolli has on Tottenham Hotspur,I think it is time that we reconsider how we perceive his role,and whether it is actually as corrosive as we often believe ourselves it to be.


Or conversely,is it Ramos solely behind our recent upsurge in the transfer market,and is Commolli the same old villain we often love to hate?
 

lukespurs7

Well-Known Member
Feb 21, 2006
4,833
4,259
Ramos certaintly seems to have a pull factor about him especially as he's won the UEFA cup twice before and the signings we have made since his arrival have been on a different level to when Jol was here, I feel this is down to two things, 1 Ramos is more respected than our beloved Jol and 2 we are now a bigger club than when Jol was in charge, we've also won something and have players that are linked with Barca,AC and Man.U and teams and players notice this.

It was also reported somewhere that in January Ramos constantly rejected certain player suggestions from Commoli who he felt weren't of a high enough level for Tottenham whereas you get the impression Jol wouldn't have had this kind of power/authority and may have to have accpeted the likes of Bent,Kaboul,Boateng etc etc.

So it's a number of reasons however whatever the reasons actually are lets be very positive here, we have signed some fantastic players in Gomes,Modric and Dos Santos and if we continue to do so it won't be long before we have a world class squad which we can keep consistently and finally not need to keep making more and more signings. Which is when we will finally be a top4 side IMO.
 

danielneeds

Kick-Ass
May 5, 2004
24,183
48,814
If Ramos is a success then Comolli is, simple as. He identified him as the man to take us to the next level, so he will have a share of the plaudits if we enter a golden period of success.
 

joey55

Well-Known Member
May 20, 2005
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Does anyone serioulsy think that Ramos, who can command such a high salary is going to agree to come to a club where he hasn't got control over the players he brings in? I seriously doubt he had the likes of Modric, Woodgate, Dos Santos or Gomes "identified" for him. He knows who he wants and Levy backs him. There has been a clear change in strategy and type of player we now target. Read Jol's book and it's exactly what he wanted. When Ramos came in I seriously doubt that Levy told him to get on with the coaching, but rather asked him asses the club as a whole and see what changes need to be made. I suspect Levy was stunned by how much Ramos thought needed to be done and where the changes needed to be made. The whole point of the D of F role is to ensure continuity and that few changes are needed when a new coach comes in. The changes Ramos has instigated and those he appears to be hoping to make are an indication of a failure within our system.

Ultimatley the blame must lie with Levy. As a quick look at Comolli's CV show he has very little experiecne of team building and nearly all the work he has done has been at youth level. If you look at his youth team signings then they largelly seem very impressive. But if you look at the players he has targeted and brought in for the first team, they aren't necessarily bad players, but often not the right sort of player and this shows his inexperience at senior level. Kaboul is the classic example of the right player, but at the wrong time. From the very start Comolli should have been assigned a different title to Arnesen and then I believe many of the problems of the last year or 2 would have been avoided. A quick glane at the CVs of Arnesen and Comolli show just how different their back grounds are. Comolli should have been made Director of Youth Football and head Scout or something along those lines.
 

yanno

Well-Known Member
Aug 1, 2003
5,857
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Comolli should have been made Director of Youth Football and head Scout or something along those lines.

I agree (and have said so before on SC). Comolli as Head of our Scouting network and Academy Recruitment and Development, with a ring-fenced pot for buying the best young talent, would be perfect.

Since Ramos joined we have definitely bought very well (as previous posters have stated), and this may well be to do with Ramos' increased clout in transfer dealings as compared with Jol. The counter-argument is that the system is the same: every one of our Gang of Four (Levy, Alexander, Comolli, head coach) has had a veto on all transfers (during both Jol & Ramos' tenure), but my strong impression is that Ramos is more forceful at getting exactly who he wants and vetoing those players he doesn't want.

Officially, Ramos as coach reports to Comolli as DoF, which is as much of a fiction as anything Dan Brown writes....

The ludicrous part is that when Ramos was appointed, Levy said that if Juande failed, Comolli as DoF would have to take the blame. And yet having a DoF is supposed to ensure continuity when the coach is replaced...

Tottenham chairman Daniel Levy has warned sporting director Damien Comolli he would carry the can if Juande Ramos failed as manager.Frenchman Comolli played a key role in persuading Ramos to leave Sevilla and take over at Spurs.
Ramos has enjoyed an unbeaten start to his reign since replacing Martin Jol last month, but Levy made it clear he saw the Spaniard as Comolli's man.
Levy said: "Damien recommended Juande Ramos, so clearly he would have to take responsibility if it didn't work.
"I have every confidence it will work."

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/26112007/1/comolli-carry-spurs-levy.html
 

Mullers

Unknown member
Jan 4, 2006
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Does anyone serioulsy think that Ramos, who can command such a high salary is going to agree to come to a club where he hasn't got control over the players he brings in? I seriously doubt he had the likes of Modric, Woodgate, Dos Santos or Gomes "identified" for him.

Did he not have Hutton identified for him?
 

themanwhofellasleep

z-list internet celebrity
Dec 14, 2006
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I agree that Ramos seems to command more respect than Jol within Spurs and seems to exert greater power on who is signed. That's hardly a surprise, given the differences in how they both got the job. Jol was assistant manager to Santini and when the Frenchman jumped ship, he sheepishly walked into the role. In contrast, Ramos was massively successful with Seville and very publicly courted by Levy.

I would imagine that if Jol disagreed with Comolli over a signing, the hierarchy might well feel tempted to say something along the lines of "be thankful you've got the job, Mr Nobody" whereas they are hardly going to say no to Ramos, the guy who they have been publicly slavering over for months.

I think the manager having a larger influence over purchases in a very good thing, because I have serious doubts over the whole role of DoF. I don't mind the idea of a DoF with a separate budget for young, up-and-coming talent (as Pleat did under Graham) but I can't stand the idea of a DoF having more influence over purchases than a manager, for the simple face that you end up in the situation that Spurs were in last season: where a) the manager has a load of players that he clearly doesn't rate and b) the manager identifies positions he'd like to fill (midfield, for example) and disagrees with the DoF so we end up buying Bent, an extra striker that the manager didn't seem to want in the first place.

As far as I'm concerned Ramos should, with the help of scouts, know the positions he wants to fill, and what players he wants, and it's up to Comolli to work out if it's financially viable and then broker the deal.
 

joey55

Well-Known Member
May 20, 2005
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Did he not have Hutton identified for him?

Probably, but that would have probaly been because Ramos didn't have anyone he particuarly in mind. I'd say the key difference is that when Ramos wants a player he can pretty much call the shots, regardless of age etc. Whilst when we first introduced the Sporting Director role, Levy made it clear that this was part of the Sporting Directors job:

"I think one of the most important appointments we made was Frank, because he dictates player strategy," 10th May 2004

I don't think that is the case anymore. In fact it clearly isn't as since Ramos came in there has been a clear change in transfer strategy. In Jols book he doesn't slag anyone off, but does say that his problem was not getting the players he wanted. He paricualry said that he needed a more experienced player at the back and another in CM. When Ramos came in the first player he bougth was Woodgate and we came close to signing Tiago, so they both (Ramos and Jol) knew what was needed.

I think the problem can be sourced in this quote:

"David Pleat, who was director of football, often gave the board different opinions to what the manager had and the board's attitude was always to back the manager." Daniel Levy.

Levy had listened to the coach and sided witht he coach before. The whole point of putting the new structure in place was so that the D of F is the top man and therefore it would have been contradictory to listen to the coach. Ramos, gave Levy a second opinion, if you like in that he seems to supported Jol's argument and thus some changes have now been made.
 
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