Is this the Make or Break season?
- Thread starter THFCSPURS19
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Strikeb4ck
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- Aug 8, 2010
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If AVB can't get Champions League with this squad and the league the way it is, then he needs to go.
Flashspur
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- Jul 28, 2012
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A leading statement Strikeb4ck and one that needs challenging.
I think AVB came to us as a team in transition anyway. I think the exit of Modric and VDV last season was a major negative impact on our progression and it was really Bale's emergence as a match winner that pulled us out of what could have easily been a mid table result. However, I believe the squad needed a major overhaul irrespective of Bale's pyrotechnics.
I think the Bale transfer to RM has created another challenge for AVB in the sense that while it precipitated a full on squad renewal process, it also meant he lost a key inverted winger. yes we got some good replacements but its impossible to integrate 7 players that quickly into such an aggressive league. What follows generally is a 1-2 season bedding down period before your squad starts to click. Plus the AVB system hasnt been fully implemented because I think he is still short a few players to make it work Porto style. This means that he is still shifting between 4-2-3-1, 4-3-3 and 4-4-2.
Does AVB need to go if he doesnt make top 4 with this squad? Personally I dont think so. You have to cut him some slack with this major overhaul. If you look at the other major rebuilders - Lambert and Rodgers. Their squads are still some way off fully responding to the coaches game plan. Rodgers is ahead of Lambert in the sense that he has been able to buy replacements plus be has the biter. I think Lerner's miserly approach to business at AV has left Lambert having to put some stop gaps in. I dont believe either of these 3 clubs will perform at their best this season. Expect Liverpool to hit the skids mid season and Lambert with his young but thin squad is a few injuries away from a drop in form.
AVB has got a bigger squad but he has the bigger task of integrating 7 new players into a more complex system than either Rodgers or Lambert play. That takes time.
I think this is another transition season for us and I think Top 4 will be a remarkable achievement considering the challenges he faces. I would be surprised if Levy will get rid of him that quickly. This is really a long term project for both AVB and Spurs.
I think AVB came to us as a team in transition anyway. I think the exit of Modric and VDV last season was a major negative impact on our progression and it was really Bale's emergence as a match winner that pulled us out of what could have easily been a mid table result. However, I believe the squad needed a major overhaul irrespective of Bale's pyrotechnics.
I think the Bale transfer to RM has created another challenge for AVB in the sense that while it precipitated a full on squad renewal process, it also meant he lost a key inverted winger. yes we got some good replacements but its impossible to integrate 7 players that quickly into such an aggressive league. What follows generally is a 1-2 season bedding down period before your squad starts to click. Plus the AVB system hasnt been fully implemented because I think he is still short a few players to make it work Porto style. This means that he is still shifting between 4-2-3-1, 4-3-3 and 4-4-2.
Does AVB need to go if he doesnt make top 4 with this squad? Personally I dont think so. You have to cut him some slack with this major overhaul. If you look at the other major rebuilders - Lambert and Rodgers. Their squads are still some way off fully responding to the coaches game plan. Rodgers is ahead of Lambert in the sense that he has been able to buy replacements plus be has the biter. I think Lerner's miserly approach to business at AV has left Lambert having to put some stop gaps in. I dont believe either of these 3 clubs will perform at their best this season. Expect Liverpool to hit the skids mid season and Lambert with his young but thin squad is a few injuries away from a drop in form.
AVB has got a bigger squad but he has the bigger task of integrating 7 new players into a more complex system than either Rodgers or Lambert play. That takes time.
I think this is another transition season for us and I think Top 4 will be a remarkable achievement considering the challenges he faces. I would be surprised if Levy will get rid of him that quickly. This is really a long term project for both AVB and Spurs.
dontcallme
SC Supporter
- Mar 18, 2005
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No it isn't a make or break season.
I don't think any Prem club has faced a mass exodus on the basis of failing to make CL football.
Carrick left because he got to a standard where Utd wanted to make him a central part of their team. Berbatov was the same. Modric and Bale left because they became main targets for one of the two glamour clubs of Europe.
I believe they all would have left regardless of whether we made CL or not.
Lloris, Vertonghen, Sandro, Paulinho, Lamela, Eriksen and maybe one or two others may get to a standard one day when one of the major clubs in Europe want them. If Barcelona make any of them a top target I'd expect them to leave and finishing 4th wouldn't change that.
Every season is a transitional season. We are always going to sell players and bring ones in who need time to settle in.
The best way to bring in a consistency is to create a style of play, buy players that fit that style and not be too reliant on any individual.
I don't think any Prem club has faced a mass exodus on the basis of failing to make CL football.
Carrick left because he got to a standard where Utd wanted to make him a central part of their team. Berbatov was the same. Modric and Bale left because they became main targets for one of the two glamour clubs of Europe.
I believe they all would have left regardless of whether we made CL or not.
Lloris, Vertonghen, Sandro, Paulinho, Lamela, Eriksen and maybe one or two others may get to a standard one day when one of the major clubs in Europe want them. If Barcelona make any of them a top target I'd expect them to leave and finishing 4th wouldn't change that.
Every season is a transitional season. We are always going to sell players and bring ones in who need time to settle in.
The best way to bring in a consistency is to create a style of play, buy players that fit that style and not be too reliant on any individual.
shelfboy68
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- Jun 14, 2008
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I think we have to stop using this as an excuse as this gets trotted out every season when we lose a player or manager.
Other clubs seem to do quite well in their transitional season like the goons who qualify every season for champs league or chelsea who win stuff every season despite having a new manager each time and this season Liverpool look good dare I say better than us as they have players capable of scoring goals plus a very good coach.
So I think we need to stop hiding behind excuses at spurs and actually step up to the mark for once and then maybe just maybe we might stop seeing results like last weekend and actually become winners for once now that would be good.
dontcallme
SC Supporter
- Mar 18, 2005
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I agree. We lost Bale, that's it. It is not the end of Spurs or the beginning of a major transitional period.
We have kept our other players. The likes of Lloris, Vertonghen, Siggy, Holtby and Dembele are integrated into our team now and we have several players who have been here for a long time.
There is no need to throw all our new players into the first team straight away and then say "it'll take time."
Some are calling for Lamela to play but I think AVB is right to bring him in slowly.
If AVB manages the squad properly then we will have a successful season.
neptunes
Active Member
- Apr 13, 2010
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It will be so so difficult to get into the top 4 this season. Teams like Pool & Everton have strengthened as well as the fringe teams. Did not mentioned the usual 4 teams so yes it will be very competitive so we need to improve rapidly to keep in touch with the top teams.
Gilzeanking
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- May 7, 2005
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2 points in the orig post . 1. How do you make it that we are favourites for the Europa ? Its entirely possible that Barca, Bayern or some other superclub will come for their 2nd chance after falling out of the CL . A completely stupid rule that makes AVB's obsession with winning it somewhat suspect when the effect on Prem form is so obvious (to the entire world bar AVB)
2 Not sure about the record signings for Verts and Lloris myself .
Regarding make or break season , disagree . There are a hundred different permutations , the question is way more complicated than the simple black and white question .
2 Not sure about the record signings for Verts and Lloris myself .
Regarding make or break season , disagree . There are a hundred different permutations , the question is way more complicated than the simple black and white question .
This is very much a make season, not a break.
Reasons why?
Quite simply, because AVB is building.
Not just a team, but a squad with depth and a club that emphasis's good football bred throughout.
We have one of the best training facilities in the country, the stadium is slowing going ahead, and the squad that was assemled this year hasn't cost us a penny.
We've bought young, technically quality players, who will improve a lot over the next couple of seasons.
So for me, this isn't make or break at all - it's quite simply a building block to get to the next level, and to stay there.
Yes it's been a slow process, and we've made some significant progress over the last 5/6 years, and whilst we've hit 4th twice, we haven't stayed there - rightly so our aim should be higher than 4th, we should be challenging for 1st, and that, is what I believe, and in my humble opinion, what the club is doing at the moment.
UNfortunately, for the fans, they need to have patience - probably lots of it.
Reasons why?
Quite simply, because AVB is building.
Not just a team, but a squad with depth and a club that emphasis's good football bred throughout.
We have one of the best training facilities in the country, the stadium is slowing going ahead, and the squad that was assemled this year hasn't cost us a penny.
We've bought young, technically quality players, who will improve a lot over the next couple of seasons.
So for me, this isn't make or break at all - it's quite simply a building block to get to the next level, and to stay there.
Yes it's been a slow process, and we've made some significant progress over the last 5/6 years, and whilst we've hit 4th twice, we haven't stayed there - rightly so our aim should be higher than 4th, we should be challenging for 1st, and that, is what I believe, and in my humble opinion, what the club is doing at the moment.
UNfortunately, for the fans, they need to have patience - probably lots of it.
I'll also post something about why we all of a sudden take the Europa League slighlty more seriously than we have previously.
Now, say for instance, we get top 4 this season, next year we have the league, the home cups and the CL to play in.
Would you simply expect us to just turn up and play a shit team in Europe?
Of course you wouldn't, you'd want to see the best players playing int he best tournament against the best teams.
But, to maintain that, you also need to do well in the league, to continue qualifying.
Putting out youth teams in the Europa League counter acts that belief, and strength of playing constantly with a squad.
The club need to understand that our team needs to play twice weekly, sometimes three times a week, so when we do get to 4th (because that the overall aim), we understand how to use the squad properly, in order to stay there.
Thats why I don't sit there and say, the Europa League is derailing our season - we need to go for it, in order to understand our improvement areas and attitude/strength.
Now, say for instance, we get top 4 this season, next year we have the league, the home cups and the CL to play in.
Would you simply expect us to just turn up and play a shit team in Europe?
Of course you wouldn't, you'd want to see the best players playing int he best tournament against the best teams.
But, to maintain that, you also need to do well in the league, to continue qualifying.
Putting out youth teams in the Europa League counter acts that belief, and strength of playing constantly with a squad.
The club need to understand that our team needs to play twice weekly, sometimes three times a week, so when we do get to 4th (because that the overall aim), we understand how to use the squad properly, in order to stay there.
Thats why I don't sit there and say, the Europa League is derailing our season - we need to go for it, in order to understand our improvement areas and attitude/strength.
SteveH
BSoDL candidate for SW London
- Jul 21, 2003
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Once so many players were bought at once, the powers that be, would have known there was increased chances of problems with players needing time to settle. So they will want top four and be pleased if achieved - but a 'make or break season' is just a media strap line.
Gilzeanking
Well-Known Member
- May 7, 2005
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No I wouldn't expect us to put out a 'shit' team or a 'youth' team in the CL . This is a slightly straw man argument . I'm not advising putting out a 'shit 'team anywhere .Its a finer point than that . Its taking Soldado to Russia and then not playing him and a hundred other small items like this . Its rotation ,its not putting out a 'shit ' team . Its accepting that long Europa trips on a Thursday take it out of the players for Sunday . Our brilliant manager hasn't even reached this level I'm afraid and until the penny drops for him we are going to have our Prem form damaged simple as that , as he drags the entire first team to god knows where Thursdays .
With big CL clubs dropping down to Europa we have an almost CL level of difficulty in winning it...and what do we get for winning exactly ? a coupla quid and a nice day out ..noone is going to race to sign with us cos we won Europa . Rotate in the Europa , simple .
There was a thread a few months back that asked for the negative pivotal moments last season . One poster said the goal by Dembo last minute to take us through vs Lyon. It meant we stayed on in the Europa .I agree , just think , a tiny improvement in our form/energy levels and we'd have made it to CL . Europa last year , was it worth it ?
Definitely make or break! No way will we get away with it again without CL, the players mentioned will rightly want to move on, I think well finish outside the top four so I'm pretty fearful for the next few years, not being pessimistic just realistic.
stonecolddeanaustin
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- Aug 27, 2011
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The only way I can see this being a break season is if the majority of the new signings turn out to be duds. If the new signings do well but we just miss out and that results in Vertonghen and Lloris wanting out then I think the Summer just gone shows that we'd reinvest the money made on them back in to the squad. However, if it turns out that in the Summer gone by we've wasted the best part of £100 mill then it may be that Levy decides to rein it in and limit the risks he takes somewhat.
Going by what we've seen so far I'd say this is extremely unlikely to happen with both Eriksen and Paulinho already looking like very good buys and there's still ample time for the others, who are all clearly talented players, to prove their worth.
Going by what we've seen so far I'd say this is extremely unlikely to happen with both Eriksen and Paulinho already looking like very good buys and there's still ample time for the others, who are all clearly talented players, to prove their worth.
jezz
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- Aug 21, 2013
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I doubt very much we would have handed AVB £100 million and then get rid 1 season later.
These players are tied to long contracts, so should we finish outside the top 4, i dont think they will be leaving anytime soon.
Unless of course we get Bale money again.
Hopefully Sundays result is a wake up call for AVB.
Start playing the £100 mill talent we bought.
Square pegs in round holes does not work.
If certain players have injuries or feel ill DONT play them.
These players are tied to long contracts, so should we finish outside the top 4, i dont think they will be leaving anytime soon.
Unless of course we get Bale money again.
Hopefully Sundays result is a wake up call for AVB.
Start playing the £100 mill talent we bought.
Square pegs in round holes does not work.
If certain players have injuries or feel ill DONT play them.
Montasura
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- Mar 15, 2008
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This is my big worry and perhaps what we need to prepare for the most. I just don't think he is the type to stay in one place for long. He wants to quit football at a young age and he will want success before that happens. The big guns have already had a sniff around him last summer and should we fail to reach CL they will be back again.
jezz
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- Aug 21, 2013
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Yep im sure some of the bigger teams will want to employ a manager who spent £100 mill and couldnt get CL football.
Football is a fickle world and opinions change very quickly.
Ill be more worried if we qualify for CL playing a stylish brand of football.
Then i believe they will come sniffing around
Montasura
Well-Known Member
- Mar 15, 2008
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Yup, thats why Real Madrid took Ramos after his abject failure at Spurs.
