It wasn't about Tactics

[Spurs_Q8]

Hello all

I Wished if we started the game with Sandro, but we took a lead 2-0 with Arsenal still wasting, the players defended well and it was a bit difficult to prevent the first one, when u conceded a goal in 0-2, it's difficult than 0-0 even if it's still lead 2-1. The difficulty come from the spirit and players mentality .. A team return to the game from nothing, and the other fears to lose all what they did.

It's Harry job to calm down the players, he was right to put Sandro next to yellow carded Parker, the problem may be about keeping Niko, but let's face it, the players were just out of their best, The back-line costs us in 2nd half.

I wish this is a lesson for the players to keep giving their 100% even they are up 2-0 or 3-0. They must come back stronger vs United as defeat would harm our season.

What i meant don't say we lost it due to tactics, things happens, we must be still positive and keep pressure off on the team.

 

[Blake Griffin]

agreed, i really don't get why harry's getting all the blame today.

we went with an attacking lineup which saw us go 2-0 up, arsenal got themselves back into it and going into the 2nd half they were on the ascendency. harry tried to shore us up a bit 2nd half but arsenal walked through us, just like they probably would have if he'd kept it the same. arsenal were just better on the day and we defended like crap.

 

[penfold_99]

The scum were weak on the break, when we ran at them they couldn't handle it! At half time he should have put Lennon on and got the ball on the decK. we ran rings round them in the start of the first half.

The problem in the second half was we tried to go through the middle instead of out wide.

 

[thinktank]

Our attitude lost us the game more than anything else.

 

[GoldstarYid]

We went with an attacking line but but played with a defensive, counter attacking mentality.

The two don't go together, that was the problem.

 

[SugarRay]

It's all part of the master plan. Look at the media and Arsenal now. Still the kings of north London...we can finish higher...etc etc.

It's a false dawn I tells ya! We made them look much better than they are today. Did not do ourselves justice one bit.

 

[lukespurs7]

agreed, i really don't get why harry's getting all the blame today.

we went with an attacking lineup which saw us go 2-0 up, arsenal got themselves back into it and going into the 2nd half they were on the ascendency. harry tried to shore us up a bit 2nd half but arsenal walked through us, just like they probably would have if he'd kept it the same. arsenal were just better on the day and we defended like crap.

I don't think for a second he should get ALL the blame as some individual performances and errors cost us, and a few players just seemed to not want it enough, and yes there was some very questionable defending. HOWEVER as stated in my 'Harry's Half-Time subs' Thread I do think he should be held accountable for the changes he made which could have worked, but didn't and had a very detrimental effect on us due to our lack of shape on the right hand side.

 

[lukespurs7]

The scum were weak on the break, when we ran at them they couldn't handle it! At half time he should have put Lennon on and got the ball on the decK. we ran rings round them in the start of the first half.

The problem in the second half was we tried to go through the middle instead of out wide.

spot on.

 

[Blake Griffin]

I don't think for a second he should get ALL the blame as some individual performances and errors cost us, and a few players just seemed to not want it enough, and yes there was some very questionable defending. HOWEVER as stated in my 'Harry's Half-Time subs' Thread I do think he should be held accountable for the changes he made which could have worked, but didn't and had a very detrimental effect on us due to our lack of shape on the right hand side.

do you think it would've been much different had we stayed with the 1st half lineup? arsenal were well on top before the changes imo.

 

[danielneeds]

Why was Harry right to bring Sandro on? He was well off the pace and didnt even sit infront of the back four who Arsenal ran at time again. He was utterly ineffective.

 

[double0]

Harry should get a giant slice of the blame...I mean the tactics were all wrong we basically played without wingers our full backs were not protected our midfield was up against 3 yes we went 0-2 up but we all knew that was going to be the end of the scoring seeing how OPEN WIDE we were, any team with any bulls will always score against us.

The line up was just wrong IMO Kranjcar and Bale can't play in the same team IMO both lack defensive responsibility. For it to have worked we needed Lennon to balance the a team so lob sided.

 

[lukespurs7]

do you think it would've been much different had we stayed with the 1st half lineup? arsenal were well on top before the changes imo.

I think it would have still been difficult mate, and not saying changes were not needed but not the ones we made. If Lennon was not fully fit then that is the only reason I can see for not bringing him on as he'd have helped release a lot of the pressure as would keeping Bale on the left.

And as mentioned before I think they were on top for the last 10minutes yes for sure they were smashing our back doors in however until about 35minutes we'd looked quite comfortable and took a deserved 2-0 lead, Sagna's goal changed everything.

 

[Antilokhos]

That 2-0 lead was incredibly complimentary to us. They really gifted us both of those goals, outside of them we didn't look particularly dangerous. The tactics were wrong, Harry's to blame for that. Now there is plenty of blame to go around, the players didn't seem interested, we had no leadership on the pitch until Dawson entered the game.

So no, Harry shouldn't take all the blame, but he's certainly deserving of his fair share.

 

[ItsBoris]

The problem was not pressing hard enough.

It's really not that complicated, sitting back and playing on the counter. You don't put no pressure on the ball, you basically wait until they come into your own half and then press hard and force them into an error, when you get the ball back other players break forward.

We did the EXACT OPPOSITE. Sit back in our own half and NOT press and let them have all the time on the ball they want. That is not how you play on the counter effectively.

 

[lol]

of course it was never only the tactics, but today's tactic is indeed the biggest reason why we lost the game.

firstly tactics, doesnt just means formation. formation lays down the foundation, which is the first step of tactics. it determines the area of play and determines who dictate that area of play.

from there we move on to a general team play, that will determine what kind of playing style we employ during the game against an opponent.

after we get that sorted out we determines who play at an exact role that can best execute the team tactics.

today's tactic was horrible, and due to a tactical failure, our team got picked apart and players eventually got demoralised.

our formation was perfectly fine when we started the game. we played a good balance of possession and attack, know the arsenal could not handle us. our two strikers drag their defence wide, allow bale to cut in and eventually won the penalty.

with the 2-0 lead, that was the start of our tactically failure. instead of doing what we did exactly, we chose to sit deep and defend the lead, so early into the game. this is down to the tactical discipline of every single player. they have to understand that when you are having a 2 - 0 lead, you should never ever sit back and invite opponents to attack you, not especially when you have RVP against you. they should have pressed forward and use the middle part of the pitch as our general play, holding our possession there.

instead of letting them just attack us, we need to put arsenal on the back foot, making them fearing that they will concede a 3rd and game over. what we did was to give them space, no pressure all the way until the final third of our own pitch. we were to afraid that we might lose the lead, and there should have been a tactical adjustment from HR. harry redknapp should have gave instructions to push forward, if not, ledley should have did. this was our first major tactical error

after we conceded that two goals, momentum was on arsenal side. players were getting demoralised due to losing a lead like this. what we should have done at that point was to either 1. hold then midfield as we were getting over run. that would have led to a decision of putting sandro in, taking either of the striker out,becoming a defensive 4 5 1. or. go for the win and at the same time, hold the midfield. that would mean taking kranjcar out for lennon, and saha for VDV, into a attacking 4 5 1

HR did neither of these, he put in sandro, vdv and went for a weird-ish 4 4 2 that played to strength of neither of our players.

i agree that our players didnt play to their best, and players like BAE had one of the worst game in recent history. but i feel it was more down to tactic, than those players. we did not lose to the better team. the arsenal today is nothing but a mid table team that has a world class striker. we did not lose to them, we gave them the victory. HR might be the best man manager i've seen but his tactic today was a total failure.

enough of ranting. looking on the bright side, we are still 7 points ahead. but next game is against man u. a lost might suddenly drag us back into a dog fight for 4th. i wouldnt have mind a lost today, as the form goes out of the window in a derby. but not like that.

 

[AllSeeingEye]

of course it was never only the tactics, but today's tactic is indeed the biggest reason why we lost the game.

firstly tactics, doesnt just means formation. formation lays down the foundation, which is the first step of tactics. it determines the area of play and determines who dictate that area of play.

from there we move on to a general team play, that will determine what kind of playing style we employ during the game against an opponent.

after we get that sorted out we determines who play at an exact role that can best execute the team tactics.

today's tactic was horrible, and due to a tactical failure, our team got picked apart and players eventually got demoralised.

our formation was perfectly fine when we started the game. we played a good balance of possession and attack, know the arsenal could not handle us. our two strikers drag their defence wide, allow bale to cut in and eventually won the penalty.

with the 2-0 lead, that was the start of our tactically failure. instead of doing what we did exactly, we chose to sit deep and defend the lead, so early into the game. this is down to the tactical discipline of every single player. they have to understand that when you are having a 2 - 0 lead, you should never ever sit back and invite opponents to attack you, not especially when you have RVP against you. they should have pressed forward and use the middle part of the pitch as our general play, holding our possession there.

instead of letting them just attack us, we need to put arsenal on the back foot, making them fearing that they will concede a 3rd and game over. what we did was to give them space, no pressure all the way until the final third of our own pitch. we were to afraid that we might lose the lead, and there should have been a tactical adjustment from HR. harry redknapp should have gave instructions to push forward, if not, ledley should have did. this was our first major tactical error

after we conceded that two goals, momentum was on arsenal side. players were getting demoralised due to losing a lead like this. what we should have done at that point was to either 1. hold then midfield as we were getting over run. that would have led to a decision of putting sandro in, taking either of the striker out,becoming a defensive 4 5 1. or. go for the win and at the same time, hold the midfield. that would mean taking kranjcar out for lennon, and saha for VDV, into a attacking 4 5 1

HR did neither of these, he put in sandro, vdv and went for a weird-ish 4 4 2 that played to strength of neither of our players.

i agree that our players didnt play to their best, and players like BAE had one of the worst game in recent history. but i feel it was more down to tactic, than those players. we did not lose to the better team. the arsenal today is nothing but a mid table team that has a world class striker. we did not lose to them, we gave them the victory. HR might be the best man manager i've seen but his tactic today was a total failure.

enough of ranting. looking on the bright side, we are still 7 points ahead. but next game is against man u. a lost might suddenly drag us back into a dog fight for 4th. i wouldnt have mind a lost today, as the form goes out of the window in a derby. but not like that.

This sounds about right.

Never let Arsenal attack and never go to sleep even at 4-2. Woeful defensively and too negative/hopeful in midfield.

 

[StartingPrice]

I think it would have still been difficult mate, and not saying changes were not needed but not the ones we made. If Lennon was not fully fit then that is the only reason I can see for not bringing him on as he'd have helped release a lot of the pressure as would keeping Bale on the left.

And as mentioned before I think they were on top for the last 10minutes yes for sure they were smashing our back doors in however until about 35minutes we'd looked quite comfortable and took a deserved 2-0 lead, Sagna's goal changed everything.

True...but I kinda get what Q8 is saying.
We were 2 - 0 up, Adebayor had a golden opportunity to find Bale running-in unmarked on the edge of the area, but didn't see him. I doubt they would have come back from 3 down. They got back into the game because Sagna, a midget (Eek) scored with a header from a corner. No matter what tactics we play teams will still get corners against us, and the primary problem with the goal, from what I could see, was that Bale stuck his leg up pathetically, when, if he had attacked it aggressively with his head, Sagna wouldn't have got a clear head to it. Without that goal I doubt the Goons would have come back, either. With the RVP goal, Sunday League kids know that you don't allow someone to turn and shoot on the edge of the area - that wasn't about tactical set-up, either.

Their second half goals, now that's a different story.

 

[robin09]

Why was Harry right to bring Sandro on? He was well off the pace and didnt even sit infront of the back four who Arsenal ran at time again. He was utterly ineffective.

Too many people relying on hindsight.

Harry made logical decisions with the line up and the changes. It didn't work because the players couldn't control the ball or pass it 20 feet to another guy in a white shirt.

The managers decisions aren't automatically bad when you lose. Just like they aren't automatically good when you win.

 

[clarryboy]

At 2-0, Harry looked like a genius for keeping a 4-4-2 from the Newcastle match and exploiting Arsenal's fragility. Their crowd got on them, which was exactly what Harry wanted, as he said pre-match.

The thing about the starting line-up, and what I'm most disappointed about, was that there was no option to revert to a more conservative approach in the event we'd established a comfortable lead. If Arsenal crumbled after going two down, no problem - keep going at them like we did Newcastle and try and increase our lead. But they didn't; they came back at us and with the personnel on the pitch we didn't have many options without making subs.

In his post-match interview, Harry spoke about how he hoped we'd hung on to our lead til half-time. This match showed the best and worst of Harry; why did he have to wait til half-time to react? By then, the match had taken a completely different complexion. Arsenal's two goal weren't exactly against the run of play.

Perhaps he felt restricted against bringing on early subs because he had concerns about the fitness of some of the starting eleven (Walker & King rumoured to have been doubtful pre-match). Even then, he should have left some provision to switch formations during the match by way of maybe including Lennon instead of Krancjar. For me, the one sub before half-time, at 2-0, would have been Sandro for Adebayor.

Once Parker got booked, he couldn't be the player in front of our two CBs. I would've liked for him to drive us further up the pitch, with Sandro sitting. Modric left-ish, Lennon right, and Bale playing off Saha on the left. Easy peasy. I feel better now. Thanks for reading.

 

[Spurvert]

I don't think we deserved to be 2-0 up. 1-0 definitely.

Sorry, I love Harry and his man management and what he's done for my club, but he isn't a tactician and that has cost us today. Not solely, but going 442 was always going to make today very hard, even at 2-0.