Juande Ramos

[jimtheyid]

Before I start, I just want to assure you all that Im not one of these fans that jumps onto the teams back at the first poor performance. I'm not the type to proclaim that a player is useless after one or two misplaced passes. I also like to think that I look at things slightly more realistically than some of the posters on this site.

What I basically want to get from this thread is simple. What do you, my fellow spurs fans, think of Juande Ramos' efforts so far? He has had eleven months as our head coach now. How do you feel he has improved the team if indeed you feel he has? What can he do better? Before I get your opinions, I will post my own. Don't jump down my throat and tell me Im wrong. They are my opinions and I am entitled to them. You may not agree with them but thats the beauty of discussion. :razz:

Juande Ramos came with a fantastic reputation. I watched in awe at the UEFA cup winning Sevilla side. It was perfectly balanced and I loved the way they played. Capel bombing down the left and Dani Alves from the right. Poulsen providing the anchor with Kerzhakov and a certain Mr Kanoute banging in the goals. This Sevilla side played attacking incisive football with quick paced, crisp passing and fantastic movement off the ball. It was obvious that the coach had something about him. On Ramos' arrival I salivated at seeing something similar at White Hart Lane.

Martin Jol along with Daniel Levy helped to restore our club from a mid table team to a team regularly qualifying for europe. We played exciting football. Granted our defense was shocking and we were a bit gung-ho at times. But it was a massive improvement from the tepid displays of the nineties. the teams of Glenn Hoddle, David Pleat and the much maligned Christian Gross. As much as I loved Martin Jol, I believe maybe he was a bit tactically naive and agreed with Levy's view that he may not have taken us to that next level. However I do believe he deserved another year to crack it. I don't agree with the way the board went about it. It was disgusting infact. However I did believe that Ramos was an excellent choice.

The Tottenham Hotspur of this season and last (post Jol) in my opinion, have been directionless. Lacking flair and incisiveness. We appear to have lost our way in a monumental fashion. Our defence has improved little, we are still conceding silly goals too often. Going forward we do not seem to know what we want to do. I feel for Darren Bent I really do. He runs and runs and runs but he just does not get the service from our midfield. We have players with attacking quality such as Bentley, Lennon, Jenas and Dos Santos. These are players that should be creating oppurtunities for poachers like Bent to finish. However they do not. Why is this?

Under Hoddle our style of play was easy to see. Three at the back with two wingers getting crosses into the box. Under Jol it was Attack attack attack. All players bombing forward. Under Ramos, I just cannot identify our style of play and I am not entirely sure that even Ramos himself knows how he wants our team to play yet. I also think he is still unsure of his best eleven. This needs to be resolved if we want to move forward this season. I think that has been qualifued by our three games in a week. All with very different starting line-ups. The line up for villa was perplexing to say the least.

Juande Ramos has been Tottenhams Head coach for close to a year now and I am yet to see much resembling the attacking joy that was the double UEFA cup winning Sevilla side. We have only won 5 league games in the whole of 2008. I know that we have gutted our squad. There are players that have left (keane and Berbatov aside) that I feel shouldnt have been sold. But that is a different matter. The upheavel of the squad has not helped matters but neither has the constant changing of the starting eleven, the muddled tactics or the lack of leadership on the pitch.

Sorry I have rambled for so long. Ramos, I still believe you can do the business. However If by the end of October we are still playing the way we are now, I will be a very worried man. I dont want to go back to the dark days of the nineties.

Jim

 

[Kendall]

I think his efforts so far have been blown up. We had allsorts of shit about the squad not being fit etc... but in the year he's been here we haven't improved at all. We won a cup, but hey Middlesbrough won it in 2004. Bolton, Millwall and Wigan are notable finalists.

He hasn't improved the way we play at all, in fact, we haven't played well consistently since the end of the 06/07 season.

 

[Krafty]

I feel, overall, the team is slowly morphing into the team he wants. However, there are still a few players that need to be upgraded, especially in the centre of midfield.

No doubt this seaosn we have taken a step back, what with so many new faces coming in, the team looks a lit unsettled/balanced at times, and we need to be patient.

Thought JR made some dubious tactical choices to begin with, hence my team predictions being largely wrong most of the time, but he now seems to be picking a better 'team'. Of course we dont see what happens on the training pitch, but I will certainly be examining his formations and tactics with great intrigue over the next few games

 

[robbiesavagehasbreasts]

Your writing style is a bit pretentious. Sorry.

Otherwise I agree with most of your post.

 

[joey55]

I don't think Ramos discussions are particulry worth having, as in general, he is judged on what he achieved at another club, in a different country. Also the achievements are never put into context. People judge him on stuff they haven't seen rather than what they have seen. If we were to judge Ramos purley on what we've seen since he's been at Spurs then there isn't much positive to say.

To put it into to persepctive, David Pleat was about as unpopular as coach can get during his last stint, when Hoddle left. Virtually everyone wanted Pleat out and he was generally considered incompetent. But he did keep us up and with a poor squad of players. He had 32 games and took 41 pts. This was considered not good enough by the Spurs faithful and those in charge, so he was rightly sacked. Well today Ramos had his 32nd game and he has won the same amount of points as Pleat. I think most will be stunned to read that, but it's true. The difference is, Ramos doesn't have a poor squad of players. In relative terms, Pleat did much better. But Ramos has been pre judged as a brilliant coach, whilst Pleat was pre judged as an idiot. It's very diificult for people to change their initial opinion of someone and this is the only reason Ramos is still so heavily supported. People actively look for reasons or excuses to defend Ramos, whilst with Pleat they actively looked for reason to blame him. Yes he's had some problems, but if it was all meant to be plain sailing we wouldn't need to pay a coach £6 million a year.

 

[PT]

We have a "work-in-progress" going on in front of our eyes and despite the snipes from our eager press.

There may have been some serious transfer negotiation errors the last window but overall our squad is stronger in most departments, than last season.

Ramos now has a job to integrate the new players - particularly those from the European leagues - and to forge a workable system with the flexibility in our squad which has enabled us to go in to a season with a small squad.

 

[jimtheyid]

Your writing style is a bit pretentious. Sorry.

Otherwise I agree with most of your post.

Having re-read my post ive got to say you have a point mate! Blame a job where I have to write countless boring reports.

 

[fazza]

As to be expected with the mass culling of players in the summer bar Berbatov and Keane, we have taken 3 steps back under Ramos's leadership.

Whilst Ramos reputation of recent years is one of the best around his previous management was average at best, could he have been in a situation where at Sevilla everything just fell into place, the players just clicked?

Attacking fast paced football, thats what I expected to see from our teams that Ramos would/will put out on the playing field every week, but I ask myself, was I just kidding myself all along, where is this fast paced game he loves to play so much, I haven't seen fast paced attacking football since the days of a previous balding manager, no not Christian Gross.

The style we have played this season so far has been slow, dodgy, very unbalanced and shoddy at best and seeing the club I love as much as my family, this is horrible to see.

Also as to be expected after the summer we have had, there seems to be no team spirit as such on the field, it's like seeing a new classroom for the first time and everyone wants to know what your name is.

Will Ramos get it right, personally I don't think he will be able to cut it in this league, and if rumours do have some credability it sounds like Ramos is already considering his options, the trump cards "homesick" and "family can't settle" are already being played by the media.

Also if Ramos were to leave I feel Levy and Enic would be closely following him out of the revolving door that is White Hart Lane.

 

[themanwhofellasleep]

As JimmyTheYid suggested, the most frustrating thing about Spurs under Ramos is that we don't seem to be improving. I think that everyone can be patient when things are going badly, if they sense that the manager has a plan and things are generally heading in the right direction. But at the moment the only direction we're heading is towards relegation. It doesn't look like Ramos has any kind of plan, and the players actually don't look like they know what they are doing out there. He's dismantled the Jol team, but hasn't built anything in its place, so there's just a load of individuals running around with no sense of purpose or direction. I don't blame him for the loss of Keane and Berbatov, but other teams have lost important players as well, and they just get on with things. Given his track record, no-one can just write him off, but it's hard to know what is happening. We're watching the team disintegrating on a week-by-week basis. It's bewildering and you can sense everyone getting more and more pissed off, struggling to work out how a team that finished 5th two years running has been transformed into a laughing stock.

I don't want to see Ramos sacked. He's got an excellent record so we need to give him time. Historically, managers were given a few seasons to work things out, but I doubt the Spurs board have that level of patience. Given everything I've seen over the last month (not just watching Spurs, but looking at other teams) my main aim for the season is to avoid relegation. A run in the cups would be nice as a bonus.

 

[eddiebailey]

He had 32 games and took 41 pts. This was considered not good enough by the Spurs faithful and those in charge, so he was rightly sacked. Well today Ramos had his 32nd game and he has won the same amount of points as Pleat. I think most will be stunned to read that, but it's true. The difference is, Ramos doesn't have a poor squad of players. In relative terms, Pleat did much better.

A shocking statisitc, not because I thought Pleat was a terrible manager, but because he did have a terrible squad. For Ramos to have done no better with the resources placed at his disposal is damning.

I feel sure that, if it were not for the circumstances of his appointment and the cost of making him redundant, Ramos would have been handed the black spot by now. It will be interesting to see how long he will be given before the board decide to cut their losses, but on his performance to date I do not see any prospect of him turning it around in an acceptable timescale.

 

[hybridsoldier]

*SIGH* we have sold our 2 best players (our 3 top strikers if you will)in the last6 months. Brought in alot of players, some with NO Prem experience.

The complete structure of the side has changed, where before the ball was fed to the front 2 and they created for each other and the side, now we are relying on the midfield to create for good finishers.

What has been realised is our midfield is shit.

Creativity - none. Ball winners - none. The midfield at THFC is 4 bodies that Aston Villa walked through numerous times on Monday. And its been like that since BEFORE Martin Jol. Point to a painful Thierry Henry goal at the Library where he ran past everyone.

Alot of media pressure and from the fans means players are playing wth fear. They are scared of taking risks and runs and trying passes because if they cdont come off, they will get booed. In that essence, WE ARE NOT HELPING OUR TEAM.The board sis paying massive wages and went the full 9 yards to get Juande Ramos and have to back him, or we will end up like Newcastle.

 

[DEFchenkOE]

I feel that for whatever reason, he is struggling to impose his style of football, or the style he wants on the team. I understand that we have many new players, but we could have still started the majority of games with players that were here last season, and ease the new boys in.

At the momemnt we're disjointed and all over the place. I'm struggling to see what type of football we're trying to play. Funily enough, I think the 3 best games we've played footballing wise have all been against Arsenal. Drawing and losing at the emirates, and the 5-1. In these games we played passing football and seemed to know what we were doing. Players were disciplined in their positions and sis their jobs properly. We've struggled to produce anything near this since and Ramos must be disappointed with that. It's just a fact right now that we're playing awful football and I wouldn't say we've improved at all over the last year, which is a real shame.

 

[fazza]

*SIGH* we have sold our 2 best players (our 3 top strikers if you will)in the last6 months. Brought in alot of players, some with NO Prem experience.

The complete structure of the side has changed, where before the ball was fed to the front 2 and they created for each other and the side, now we are relying on the midfield to create for good finishers.

What has been realised is our midfield is shit.

Creativity - none. Ball winners - none. The midfield at THFC is 4 bodies that Aston Villa walked through numerous times on Monday. And its been like that since BEFORE Martin Jol. Point to a painful Thierry Henry goal at the Library where he ran past everyone.

Alot of media pressure and from the fans means players are playing wth fear. They are scared of taking risks and runs and trying passes because if they cdont come off, they will get booed. In that essence, WE ARE NOT HELPING OUR TEAM.The board sis paying massive wages and went the full 9 yards to get Juande Ramos and have to back him, or we will end up like Newcastle.

I see this happening very soon if things don't change, how long is it gonna be before the fans force Levy out, lets face it, his decision last year to bring Ramos in was nothing short of disgusting and unfounded behaviour and to the man that was in charge of the team at the time, extremely disrespectful, part of me wants this to go all tits up because I feel Levy may deserve it.

For 3 seasons our club was a pleasant place to go to, smiles more than frowns, fans singing the name of our head coach, to me, the best we have ever been during my lifetime as a Spurs fan, but now the club is nothing more than a stinking pit of negativity and I won't be going to any games as I will only add negativity to the place.

Levy said he wanted champions league and success, well apart from the carling cup which was down to a team already assembled by a previous coach, we haven't even looked like a team that could challenge for 11th let alone 4th, remember the previous 2 seasons we had finished 5th both times and we all know how close we came to Champions league football the first time round, yes Champions league football that our beloved chairman so desperately wants. I wonder now wheather Levy sleeps at night thinking maybe he made the worst decision of his life after a home Uefa cup game. As they say, time will tell and so far it's telling.

 

[Mr Gamgee]

He may well have worked wonders in spain, but over here His record is absoluting apalling to be honest, and there is no hiding from that

Everybody is scared to say he is not working becuase we are scared of other fans laughing at us. The argument about not having the squad he wants etc are fair but only to a certain extent. To be honest we have a squad capable of finished 5th and its his job to gel the team whether its exactly to his liking or not.

At the moment the fans are sticking by him, purely because he did well with seville, no other reason. At what point to questions start getting asked?

 

[hellava_tough]

He may well have worked wonders in spain, but over here His record is absoluting apalling to be honest, and there is no hiding from that

Everybody is scared to say he is not working becuase we are scared of other fans laughing at us. The argument about not having the squad he wants etc are fair but only to a certain extent. To be honest we have a squad capable of finished 5th and its his job to gel the team whether its exactly to his liking or not.

At the moment the fans are sticking by him, purely because he did well with seville, no other reason. At what point to questions start getting asked?

Shit Tom, you could be right. And I hate to admit it (not because I've got anything against you) because it makes me sound like I'm giving a knee-jerk opinion.

5 wins in 2008 is shit - you can't really argue against that.

Why the fuck does Tottenham Hotspur FC always seem to get it wrong?

Are we cursed or something?

Even when we bring in a manager with a proven pedigree, and spend stacks of cash on good players (although we still have holes in the squad), we still get shat on!

Perhaps we've all, in fact, died and this is our purgatory?

:shrug:

 

[spurs]

As Jim & Joey pointed out, Ramos is respected becuase of his previous reputuation. Before he came the majority of pundits thought the Sevilla success was due to him, only a few thought it was due to Monchi their sporting director.

The only real defence of Ramos is that we have a whole new squad and that all new signings are a gamble as to whether they work out. But as Joey pointed out in another thread, Man City hav more new players than us...

The next 10 days will be hige in the future of THFC. I want Ramos to stay and succeed, but if were to lose all 3, the only thinking keeping him at the club would be the £24mil ish it would take to sack him.

 

[ShelfSide18]

Some fair points well made.

I can't help thinking back to the last day of the 06/07 season when we beat Man City to finish 5th for 2 successive seasons. There was such a sense of happiness and fun around the place and now it just seems to have evaporated. The fans now turn up baying for blood, waiting to stick the knife in at the first opportunity but the players are not giving us anything to believe in either - it's a 2 way thing and both players and fans are not helping each other out. It's almost like us and them, which is wrong. For me, under Jol it was just 'us'. We had our problems yes, but we had a purpose and direction.

Ramos tenure has been weird, our league form has been poor in the main but winning the CC just cannot be understated, but as I posted on another thread, the tactical genius he showed in that CC run is so far the exception and not the rule. What Jol lacked in tactical nous and experience (which was vastly exaggerated on here) he made up in camaraderie and passion, he also put points on the board on a regular basis something that Ramos has failed to do so far.

I'll back Ramos but am totally indifferent to him and most of the players, there's nothing much to believe in or identify with at the moment. All very depressing, I really want Ramos to do well but for as long as this continues the doubts are really going to set in.

 

[myhartlane]

"For 3 seasons our club was a pleasant place to go to, smiles more than frowns, fans singing the name of our head coach, to me, the best we have ever been during my lifetime as a Spurs fan, but now the club is nothing more than a stinking pit of negativity and I won't be going to any games as I will only add negativity to the place."

That's great news Fazza, that means that there will be a spare ticket for me!

 

[kicked]

I think any intelligent manager will work it out. SAF didn't get it right for a few seasons then once he had it sussed...look at the history! Wenger has it sussed, but he had to spend money at the beginning. Now he hardly spends a penny and still has a great team! I think Ramos will get it right. We cannot again get rid of a manager quickly. We have to give him time otherwise we have to go through this whole damn rebuilding process again!

However..all this 'gelling' and 'new to premiership' stuff is slowly getting a bit tedious especially when you consider Robinho and Jo who seem to be settling in very quickly. The only plus is Keane doesn't seem to be settling too quickly at the 'pool

 

[spurs]

Does anyone know how good his English is? I read he had his 1st press conference in English recently but didn't see it.