Lack of VAR intervention leaves Kane scratching his head

[mawspurs]

Harry Kane was left scratching his head after he was denied a penalty in Tottenham’s defeat to Newcastle on Sunday and says VAR should have changed the decision.

Source: Football 365

 

[@Bobby__Lucky]

Clear pen. All day long. Clear pen. Looks like VAR is as currupt as referees on their own.

 

[Japhet]

Clear pen. All day long. Clear pen. Looks like VAR is as currupt as referees on their own.

Certainly as useless. The problem is that officialdom is always looking to back up their own no matter how incompetent they are, and Mike Dean is an incompetent show pony.

 

[Khilari]

VAR will (and has) swung our way before and will swing against us as it did on Sunday.

Thought it looked a penalty but VAR did not feel it was a "clear and obvious" error by the Ref to alter his decision.

So all in all, Lamela's foul against City should have gone against us and we probably would have lost the point.
Kane's should have gone for us and we should have gained a point.

VAR wasn't the main problem on Sunday however.

 

[WalkerboyUK]

Might be worth keeping a list of VAR decisions for/against us this season, just to see if they really do balance out.
So far we've had:
+1) No foul given against Lamela vs City
+1) Handball against Laporte securing us a point
-1) No foul given for challenge on Kane

 

[Shadydan]

If Dean they gave that penalty I don't think that VAR would have overturned it on review. This is the actual problem with VAR in this country it takes out the accountability from the ref and neither the ref nor VAR end up making the correct decision.

 

[WalkerboyUK]

If Dean they gave that penalty I don't think that VAR would have overturned it on review. This is the actual problem with VAR in this country it takes out the accountability from the ref and neither the ref nor VAR end up making the correct decision.

I disagree.
As we saw with Lamela last week at City, it has to leave a chunk of accountability with the referee. If you're not giving that accountability to the referee, and instead choose to review and overturn everything with VAR, then you may as well not bother with on-field officials. The problem there still remains in lack of consistency and interpretation. Michael Oliver deems it not to be a foul by Lamela, another ref would probably have given it.

I'm still in two minds over Lascelles/Kane at the weekend.
On the one hand there is contact, but it also appears relatively unintentional. Lascelles has tripped over and, because of how Harry tries to shield the ball, there is a minor coming together. Has Dean made a "clear and obvious" error in not awarding a penalty? I'm not so sure.
Likewise, despite Chris Sutton and others saying Chelsea should have had a penalty against Norwich, I'm not convinced.
The more these sort of challenges are analysed, shown in slo-mo replays etc. etc. the more we edge towards a complete non-contact sport.

 

[Shadydan]

I disagree.
As we saw with Lamela last week at City, it has to leave a chunk of accountability with the referee. If you're not giving that accountability to the referee, and instead choose to review and overturn everything with VAR, then you may as well not bother with on-field officials. The problem there still remains in lack of consistency and interpretation. Michael Oliver deems it not to be a foul by Lamela, another ref would probably have given it.

I'm still in two minds over Lascelles/Kane at the weekend.
On the one hand there is contact, but it also appears relatively unintentional. Lascelles has tripped over and, because of how Harry tries to shield the ball, there is a minor coming together. Has Dean made a "clear and obvious" error in not awarding a penalty? I'm not so sure.
Likewise, despite Chris Sutton and others saying Chelsea should have had a penalty against Norwich, I'm not convinced.
The more these sort of challenges are analysed, shown in slo-mo replays etc. etc. the more we edge towards a complete non-contact sport.

That's not my argument, I'm not advocating that every decision should go to VAR, for example in this instance if Dean never saw it which he admits then that's when VAR need to step in otherwise what's the actual point?

It's seems obvious that there's now a trend where VAR doesn't want to overrule the on field ref's decisions but if the ref doesn't have a clear view on the incident then he's not the right person to make the decision and ultimately it then should fall down to VAR to correct that.

 

[wrd]

If Dean they gave that penalty I don't think that VAR would have overturned it on review. This is the actual problem with VAR in this country it takes out the accountability from the ref and neither the ref nor VAR end up making the correct decision.

This is what was winding me up with the debate with my friends, they were busy debating the VAR ruling as opposed to simply whether the ref should have given a penalty or not.

Var has created this halfway nonsense where Refs based on the evidence thus far are less likely to blow for penalties thinking VAR will call for a pen if needed and the people in charge of VAR are too scared to overrule the referees initial decision. we're in penalty purgatory at the moment.

 

[Japhet]

That's not my argument, I'm not advocating that every decision should go to VAR, for example in this instance if Dean never saw it which he admits then that's when VAR need to step in otherwise what's the actual point?

It's seems obvious that there's now a trend where VAR doesn't want to overrule the on field ref's decisions but if the ref doesn't have a clear view on the incident then he's not the right person to make the decision and ultimately it then should fall down to VAR to correct that.

The problem is that any decision that overrules a Ref highlights a refereeing mistake. In Dean's case, if he's saying that he made a bad call on an incident he didn't see, that's some sort of arrogant shit that needs dealing with on a whole different level and he should have reviewed the footage himself. VAR needs to have the balls to point out when Refs have got it wrong.

 

[wrd]

The problem is that any decision that overrules a Ref highlights a refereeing mistake. In Dean's case, if he's saying that he made a bad call on an incident he didn't see, that's some sort of arrogant shit that needs dealing with on a whole different level and he should have reviewed the footage himself. VAR needs to have the balls to point out when Refs have got it wrong.

Apparently the referees egos are more important to protect than getting the correct decisions. They need to change their mentality surrounding VAR, it isn't about calling out referees mistakes it's about appreciating that with technology we have the ability to make better judgements. More information typically leads to better decisions being taken, it's not an attack on the referees decision making.

 

[Japhet]

Apparently the referees egos are more important to protect than getting the correct decisions. They need to change their mentality surrounding VAR, it isn't about calling out referees mistakes it's about appreciating that with technology we have the ability to make better judgements. More information typically leads to better decisions being taken, it's not an attack on the referees decision making.

They seem to have embraced it with goal line technology where the decision is taken out of the Ref's hands and everybody seems perfectly happy with it. Until VAR has the balls to reverse Ref's decisions it will be a toothless tiger.

 

[Khilari]

If Dean they gave that penalty I don't think that VAR would have overturned it on review. This is the actual problem with VAR in this country it takes out the accountability from the ref and neither the ref nor VAR end up making the correct decision.

I disagree.
As we saw with Lamela last week at City, it has to leave a chunk of accountability with the referee. If you're not giving that accountability to the referee, and instead choose to review and overturn everything with VAR, then you may as well not bother with on-field officials. The problem there still remains in lack of consistency and interpretation. Michael Oliver deems it not to be a foul by Lamela, another ref would probably have given it.

I'm still in two minds over Lascelles/Kane at the weekend.
On the one hand there is contact, but it also appears relatively unintentional. Lascelles has tripped over and, because of how Harry tries to shield the ball, there is a minor coming together. Has Dean made a "clear and obvious" error in not awarding a penalty? I'm not so sure.
Likewise, despite Chris Sutton and others saying Chelsea should have had a penalty against Norwich, I'm not convinced.
The more these sort of challenges are analysed, shown in slo-mo replays etc. etc. the more we edge towards a complete non-contact sport.

VAR is the assistant referee. Dean has the final say however VAR will provide their input. I think this is right, otherwise we are getting into cricket territory where the Umpires refer almost every runout to the third umpire and teams use "reviews". The referee should be the one making all the decisions and VAR should only come into play now and then.

It's hard to take off my Spurs-tinted-specs, but I do not understand how that was not given as a penalty by VAR but can understand how Dean may not have given it, from where he was standing.

I think if VAR had advised Dean that Lascelles had brought Kane down, he'd have reversed his decision and given it.

It's going to be a difficult time for refs and teams as we get used to VAR in the Premier League and there'll be a learning curve and more consistency the more it's used. Until then we will have to take the rough with the smooth.

 

[FITZ]

I disagree.
As we saw with Lamela last week at City, it has to leave a chunk of accountability with the referee. If you're not giving that accountability to the referee, and instead choose to review and overturn everything with VAR, then you may as well not bother with on-field officials. The problem there still remains in lack of consistency and interpretation. Michael Oliver deems it not to be a foul by Lamela, another ref would probably have given it.

I'm still in two minds over Lascelles/Kane at the weekend.
On the one hand there is contact, but it also appears relatively unintentional. Lascelles has tripped over and, because of how Harry tries to shield the ball, there is a minor coming together. Has Dean made a "clear and obvious" error in not awarding a penalty? I'm not so sure.
Likewise, despite Chris Sutton and others saying Chelsea should have had a penalty against Norwich, I'm not convinced.
The more these sort of challenges are analysed, shown in slo-mo replays etc. etc. the more we edge towards a complete non-contact sport.

Lacelles hasn’t attempted to play the ball and dives forward to almost make a block after slipping. There is contact. If it was the other way round and he slipped and his feet made contact it would have pen everyday. He’s got away with it as it looked odd.

 

[hutchiniho]

This decision seems a lot like ‘umpires call’ in cricket.
If the ref had decided it was a pen. The reply would have equally backed up that decision.
We will have to get used to ‘clear and obvious’

Penalty decisions will in the majority of cases stay with the refs first view

For me it was a penalty. Hand made contact with foot. Then arm down the side of leg. As we know any contact is enough to bring a player down.

Something else to get used to.

More worried about our ridiculous narrowing of the pitch. :-/

 

[Springerding]

Its obvious that refs are passing the buck thinking if I don't give it they will if im wrong. I wish VAR would go away but it wont.

 

[bsinghd]

Kane left scratching his head, well he was standing around scratching his balls all game doing fuck all and not even bothering to get into the box for a cross. I don’t understand how Moura keeps getting on the end of crosses in the six yard box but Kane can’t. For someone as tall and strong as Harry, he should be able to score a minimum of 5 headed goals a season or at least get some flick ons for someone else to score.

 

[John48]

I was left scratching more than my head & I'm still fuming, although Collymore somehow thinks he dived, what pr*ck.

 

[AnotherSpursFan]

Lack of movement up front left fans scratching their behind

 

[jolsnogross]

Lascelles made sure he fell into Kane as he lost his footing and it was a pretty clear penalty for stopping the attacker getting a shot away illegally. I was surprised because I thought the ref was essentially undecided and asking for the VAR outcome, rather than that he actively decided it wasn't a penalty and wanted that confirmed.

At the time I thought we were getting out of jail, albeit draws aren't all that much anymore.