Lamela

[Ghost Hardware]

If i just say to you I can see that Lemela is worth more to us than the viable alternatives and start saying instead of 90% it's more like 10% he fucks up and 90% he does OK you'll just say your eyes see it different, so I'm going to try and use some stats to back up what I'm saying. A lot of the stuff I can see happening, and these stats might miss or not tell the whole story of some good and some bad.

Lets be honest and accept that none of the creative/attacking midfielders we have are perfect, any of them, if they were they probably wouldn't be playing for us. I accept than Lamela, like the others has flaws.

Lets also accept what we know Lamela does better than both Lennon and Townsend (the two he's mostly been competing with for that ARM position). He tackles more and intercepts more (more than Lennon and Townsend put together). And he provides that final pass (assist) more (joint highest at the club now and again more than Lennon and Townsend put together). After Eriksen he averages the second most key passes (the same as Lennon and Townsend together). He averages more dribbles per game than anyone in our team.

So far the stats are definitely suggesting that my eyes aren't too wrong so far. But your main point is despite Lamela producing more final assists, and working harder without the ball than the viable "others" he's spending the rest of the time "90%" fucking about. But what I see is player who is always more involved in the team play and building of our play than the others. The stats would seem to support this.

Lamela averages 35 passes a game, Townsend 16, Lennon 12 (Chadli 28). So despite taking more risks (i.e. playing more final passes that result in goals, key passes and making more dribbles) he's still contributing more of the nitty gritty team stuff, showing, receiving and moving the ball on that the other two put together. As well as the off the ball stuff which is better than just about all our forward players.

He's flawed, he fucks up sometimes, but if you can look past the odd fuck up, the vast balance of what he is offering is pretty decent all round package compared to the viable alternatives and compliments the things the others like Kane, Eriksen, Chadli Dembele bring. Especially if Walker could start providing something productive from wide.

Exactly, 100% on the money. Is he gods gift to football, no, but he does more then enough within the team to worrent his place in the starting 11. On top of that the kid is still young and improving so if you really dislike him and want him sold the more we play him, the better he gets, the more he goes for. I like the kid and think he has been an integral part to Pochs high press so I really hope he stays, but that's me. In the interim he is better then Andros who's only real skill is pace, which isn't even really a skill. Eriksen was fucking usless on Thursday, if people really want to pointlessly moan about players who have been key to the revolution that seems to be happening under Poch at the moment then why don't people pick on him for a change.

 

[Blake Griffin]

Eriksen was fucking usless on Thursday, if people really want to pointlessly moan about players who have been key to the revolution that seems to be happening under Poch at the moment then why don't people pick on him for a change.

because eriksen's quality. that's the same lame crap that soldado's biggest fans come out with .. "look at that chance kane missed! if that had been soldado he'd be getting slaughtered!".

 

[Bus-Conductor]

oh god, stats and the trusty lennon/townsend comparison, aren't you bored of this yet? i don't care if he averages more passes, i'd rather he averaged less but did more with them. i don't care what his interception rate is, he's not a centre back. i don't care how many tackles he makes, much of that is negated by him also being the most dispossessed player in the squad(funny how you left that one out). have another stat, he has less goals than eric dier. if there was a stat for most amount of times fallen over i'm sure he'd top that as well. lamela, defends well, attacks not so well.

But, importantly, better than any of the alternatives.

Assists need qualifying of course, but he's still made the most amount of them (with Chadli) of anyone in pour side, makes the second most key passes, and receives and passes the ball more than all other attacking players we have bar Eriksen. The point is surely, whether his face fits with you or not, the facts suggest he is the most viable choice, by some margin, for his position.

You can try to obfuscate the argument by degrading facts to the status of stats, but this is just about bias, because you have nothing to substantiate your opinion. By most measurable criteria, i.e. those that aren't influenced by a human bias, Lamela outperforms and out produces the viable alternatives. It's not even very close.

 

[Blake Griffin]

But, importantly, better than any of the alternatives.

Assists need qualifying of course, but he's still made the most amount of them (with Chadli) of anyone in pour side, makes the second most key passes, and receives and passes the ball more than all other attacking players we have bar Eriksen. The point is surely, whether his face fits with you or not, the facts suggest he is the most viable choice, by some margin, for his position.

You can try to obfuscate the argument by degrading facts to the status of stats, but this is just about bias, because you have nothing to substantiate your opinion. By most measurable criteria, i.e. those that aren't influenced by a human bias, Lamela outperforms and out produces the viable alternatives. It's not even very close.

danny rose was man of the match away to leicester according to whoscored - the scores are calculated using over 200 separate stats, yet you were having none of it .... but you were happy to use whoscored stats to argue other points. so which is it to be? i don't know why you don't just post whoscored's ratings in your match ratings posts, they're the most measurable criteria afterall and aren't influenced by human bias.

 

[Mr Pink]

oh god, stats and the trusty lennon/townsend comparison, aren't you bored of this yet? i don't care if he averages more passes, i'd rather he averaged less but did more with them. i don't care what his interception rate is, he's not a centre back. i don't care how many tackles he makes, much of that is negated by him also being the most dispossessed player in the squad(funny how you left that one out). have another stat, he has less goals than eric dier. if there was a stat for most amount of times fallen over i'm sure he'd top that as well. lamela, defends well, attacks not so well.

Come on Blake. Our high pressing style requires them to make tackles and interceptions, the fact that he's making a decent amount of interceptions is proof that's he an effective component in this style.

His contribution/quality on the ball is inconsistent but there's signs he's improving, despite last night's underwhelming cameo. Anfield is a tough place to showcase your quality, and he certainly performed well with the ball that night.

 

[THFCSPURS19]

Come on Blake. Our high pressing style requires them to make tackles and interceptions, the fact that he's making a decent amount of interceptions is proof that's he an effective component in this style.

His contribution/quality on the ball is inconsistent but there's signs he's improving, despite last night's underwhelming cameo. Anfield is a tough place to showcase your quality, and he certainly performed well with the ball that night.

'Blake' is more concerned with making himself look good than making sensible comments.

 

[Blake Griffin]

'Blake' is more concerned with making himself look good than making sensible comments.

i don't even know what this is supposed to mean.

 

[npearl4spurs]

Here's his highlights against Burnley in the league:
QUOTE]
/QUOTE]

QUOTE]
[/

Thanks for posting this! I didn't watch this game due to work, but it looks like we should have won 4-1 at least.

Lamela was really good here, but he needs to be more aggressive in heading towards goal and using his creativity more. His decision making is going to get better as he plays more in the run-in here - he chose the wrong pass at one point not going to Kane on a through ball, but Kane also missed him on a through ball chance earlier in the game. I'm really impressed with his effort and speed. He shows a lot of similar off the ball stuff to Kane as he was popping up in a lot of different places on the pitch. If he could find his comfort level in staying out wide and mixing in some crosses then I feel his take ons would be more successful

 

[Flobadob]

Seriously, right here in this thread shows why just giving stats is a stupid idea perfectly, unless you show the entire picture along with them.

Lamela spends more time in the middle of the pitch than any of our other wingers by a long way. So can anyone tell me which stats will be increased directly because of this?... His passing, tackling and interception stats!

With all due respect to those of you that like your stats, this is why I'd rather trust my own eyes than look at a load of figures on some website, because it's so flawed it's ridiculous!

 

[jezz]

Seriously, right here in this thread shows why just giving stats is a stupid idea perfectly, unless you show the entire picture along with them.

Lamela spends more time in the middle of the pitch than any of our other wingers by a long way. So can anyone tell me which stats will be increased directly because of this?... His passing, tackling and interception stats!

With all due respect to those of you that like your stats, this is why I'd rather trust my own eyes than look at a load of figures on some website, because it's so flawed it's ridiculous!

The AM3 are given free reign to interchange between them.

 

[Flobadob]

The AM3 are given free reign to interchange between them.

Yes, they are to an extent, but he still spends too much time in the middle of the pitch. When you think of Lamela, you don't think of a WF stretching the opponents defence like Hazard, Willian, Bolasie, Rodriquez etc (even Chadli does this to a far higher standard than Lamela) you think of a player that comes into the middle of the pitch and gets involved with the play as his main style of play, which is why he has these increased stats in the areas that have been mentioned and ignoring that fact and just saying 'Oh look! Here's some stats that say he's better, so I must be right!' is just plain stupid. You can't take the stats into account without also using your own brain to analyse why he has increased stats in those areas.

I can guarantee you that if Townsend decided to drift inside as much as Lamela does, you would see a massive increase in his stats in those 3 areas. Lamela plays 75% of the time inside the width of the 18 yard box when we have possession and that is nothing but a BAD thing for our overall play as a team, because 1. We're left with no width 2. He gets in Eriksen's way when it is clear to anyone that watches him closely he needs the space in the middle to pull the strings and to pop up in space to receive the ball. The more Eriksen touches the ball and has space to influence the game, the more chance we have of winning football matches.. Period! And 3. It just adds another player that is going to be smack in front of the CB's and it makes it too easy for them to defend.

Seriously dude, I rate Lamela! I think he'd be the cats tits in the No.10 role and the stats that were provided earlier actually back that up completely because he has the skillset to play in that position at the top level, but he really doesn't have the skillset to be a top level RWF, unless we maybe get someone absolutely top drawer on the left so we have some kind of penetration and stretch in our attacking play. That still wouldn't make him any better than he is playing that role though, it would just mean we'd have a better shape to our play. Once again, this is my main point here, the shape and effectiveness of our play as a team when certain players are in the team

 

[jezz]

Yes, they are to an extent, but he still spends too much time in the middle of the pitch. When you think of Lamela, you don't think of a WF stretching the opponents defence like Hazard, Willian, Bolasie, Rodriquez etc (even Chadli does this to a far higher standard than Lamela) you think of a player that comes into the middle of the pitch and gets involved with the play as his main style of play, which is why he has these increased stats in the areas that have been mentioned and ignoring that fact and just saying 'Oh look! Here's some stats that say he's better, so I must be right!' is just plain stupid. You can't take the stats into account without also using your own brain to analyse why he has increased stats in those areas.

I can guarantee you that if Townsend decided to drift inside as much as Lamela does, you would see a massive increase in his stats in those 3 areas. Lamela plays 75% of the time inside the width of the 18 yard box when we have possession and that is nothing but a BAD thing for our overall play as a team, because 1. We're left with no width 2. He gets in Eriksen's way when it is clear to anyone that watches him closely he needs the space in the middle to pull the strings and to pop up in space to receive the ball. The more Eriksen touches the ball and has space to influence the game, the more chance we have of winning football matches.. Period! And 3. It just adds another player that is going to be smack in front of the CB's and it makes it too easy for them to defend.

Seriously dude, I rate Lamela! I think he'd be the cats tits in the No.10 role and the stats that were provided earlier actually back that up completely because he has the skillset to play in that position at the top level, but he really doesn't have the skillset to be a top level RWF, unless we maybe get someone absolutely top drawer on the left so we have some kind of penetration and stretch in our attacking play. That still wouldn't make him any better than he is playing that role though, it would just mean we'd have a better shape to our play. Once again, this is my main point here, the shape and effectiveness of our play as a team when certain players are in the team

You could be right, only time will tell of course.
Personally Eriksen looks better left of the AM3.
He doesn't actually assist that much 2 all season.
He's better drifting in and shooting.
The shape of the team looks better now with Dembele as a 10.
Don't get me wrong here, Townsend should be given a try on the right at some stage with Dembele and Eriksen.
I just don't think he's intelligent enough to link play up.

 

[Flobadob]

You could be right, only time will tell of course.
Personally Eriksen looks better left of the AM3.
He doesn't actually assist that much 2 all season.
He's better drifting in and shooting.
The shape of the team looks better now with Dembele as a 10.
Don't get me wrong here, Townsend should be given a try on the right at some stage with Dembele and Eriksen.
I just don't think he's intelligent enough to link play up.

I think it depends on how you look at it. He's definitely a bigger goal threat from that position, there's no debating that whatsoever, but with him out on the left we lose his impact as a playmaker for the team. When he and we are at our best it's when Eriksen touches the ball the most out of any attacking player, rather than when he gets an assist because overall I think it has a bigger effect on the game. I'd take Eriksen at his best in a playmaking sense ala Modric assisting the assister over him getting an assist directly any day of the week as I feel when he's pulling the strings in full flow we are more likely to score more goals because of that than him directly getting an assist himself, if that makes sense?

Yeah, I do like Mousa in the 10 role as I feel we hold the ball in the final third better now as it sticks up there because of his ball retention skills and pure strength on the ball. It's good to have that option for certain matches, absolutely. Also, it gets the best out of him and I don't think there's many people, Spurs fans or not, that don't love to watch him play when he's at his best

We'll see how things pan out with regards to Lamela and Townsend, but whatever happens I firmly believe that we need more of a direct player in our attack to stretch the defence, whatever player he may replace, as it's a hallmark of almost every top team in the world. They all have at least one player that scares the shit out of defenders when they start to run with/off the ball and it's a vital option to have as like I say the tippy tappy football won't always work out how you plan it as you might have an off day or the opposition may be extremely organised that day

 

[tototoner]

On the pitch is he a greater asset or a greater liability than the player whose place he is taking up, be that Chadli or Townsend?

 

[slartibartfast]

Really think you cant defend Lamella anymore. Id rather have Townsend playing down that right wing. And that couldn't be more offensive to Lamella. If we could get back 18-20 mill from an Italian club we would simply have to sell. buy Depay with it

I'd snap their fkin hand off.
Its hilarious reading those trying to defend his performances.
Its either blind faith or as I suspect they don't know what they're on about.
Keep the faith

 

[haydsmith]

Stats or no stats, any serious offer in the summer and he'll be on his way.

 

[stemark44]

But, importantly, better than any of the alternatives.

Assists need qualifying of course, but he's still made the most amount of them (with Chadli) of anyone in pour side, makes the second most key passes, and receives and passes the ball more than all other attacking players we have bar Eriksen. The point is surely, whether his face fits with you or not, the facts suggest he is the most viable choice, by some margin, for his position.

You can try to obfuscate the argument by degrading facts to the status of stats, but this is just about bias, because you have nothing to substantiate your opinion. By most measurable criteria, i.e. those that aren't influenced by a human bias, Lamela outperforms and out produces the viable alternatives. It's not even very close.

This from a guy who thinks Capoue should start every game and who has a constant semi because our possession is up 1.2% on last season.

 

[E17yid]

I'd snap their fkin hand off.
Its hilarious reading those trying to defend his performances.
Its either blind faith or as I suspect they don't know what they're on about.
Keep the faith

You clearly don't know what you're on about. You can't even follow a simple debate without totally missing the point.

 

[Sp3akerboxxx]

It's a shame that this thread dies whenever Lamela plays well.

 

[Rout-Ledge]

because eriksen's quality. that's the same lame crap that soldado's biggest fans come out with .. "look at that chance kane missed! if that had been soldado he'd be getting slaughtered!".

Exactly.

If Lamela had made as many important contributions to us as Eriksen has then this debate wouldn't be happening. If the choice on the wing, based on this season's form for us, is Chadli or Lamela, then the answer is pretty obvious.