Ledley King

[StartingPrice]

I think everyone understands your point of view but do you really think it is affecting us as a club? Is his presence holding us back? Would we be higher than we are now minus Ledley?

I kinda did answe this, in so much as I can, in my original post: defence needs stability (all defences, at all times), and players who are used to playing with one another (oooeeerrr, missus:grin, week-in-week-out. There is no doubt that Ledders, even in his manifestation as Dockter Crocker, is one of the best centre-halves in the country. I am just very concerned that chopping-and-changing the defence so often to accomodate him will never all us to build that continuity of team selection, is all. I mean, the fact is, we know absolutely, beyond all shadow of doubt, that he is never gonna play consecutive games in a week, and that is before all the time we know absolutely he will miss 'cos he will get injuries 'cos he can't train properly. Obviously, if I rate him as highly as I do I really wouldn't be saying this unless I was really concerned of that possibility.

Ultimately, if 'Arry thinks it's safe to go with it, okay. But if you take the start of our recent run of clean sheets, weren't we just a bit lucky that Ledders was returning for a relatively easy game? Just a touch. And if we had conceded in that game:shrug:

And on top of this we have the talented but perrennially injured JWoody

 

[Black]

He means the game that C.Cole ran him ragged.

But what defender hasn't he run ragged :shrug:

 

[Matthew Wyatt]

Great squad player. No special pleading.

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

I kinda did answe this, in so much as I can, in my original post: defence needs stability (all defences, at all times), and players who are used to playing with one another (oooeeerrr, missus:grin, week-in-week-out. There is no doubt that Ledders, even in his manifestation as Dockter Crocker, is one of the best centre-halves in the country. I am just very concerned that chopping-and-changing the defence so often to accomodate him will never all us to build that continuity of team selection, is all. I mean, the fact is, we know absolutely, beyond all shadow of doubt, that he is never gonna play consecutive games in a week, and that is before all the time we know absolutely he will miss 'cos he will get injuries 'cos he can't train properly. Obviously, if I rate him as highly as I do I really wouldn't be saying this unless I was really concerned of that possibility.

Ultimately, if 'Arry thinks it's safe to go with it, okay. But if you take the start of our recent run of clean sheets, weren't we just a bit lucky that Ledders was returning for a relatively easy game? Just a touch. And if we had conceded in that game:shrug:

And on top of this we have the talented but perrennially injured JWoody

I keep hearing that we need a settled defence but we haven't had that this season and we still have a good defensive record. Even top the league Chelsea rotate Carvalho and Alex most weeks.

 

[Alfieconnman]

I love Ledley and he has been a magnificent player for us over the years. Few could argue that, without the knee problem, he would have qualified as one of the best centre backs in the world over the past few years. However, we have to face the fact that he will be increasingly taking a "cameo" role in the team. I really hope that a slot can be found for him in the training/admin structure in the future in recognition of his contribution to the club.

 

[Matt C]

How many Utd fans were writing Paul McGrath off at similar stage/age ? many I suspect, McGrath never trained, had to be managed, but still played great till his early/mid 30's, its madness writing King off

 

[spursman85]

I keep hearing that we need a settled defence but we haven't had that this season and we still have a good defensive record. Even top the league Chelsea rotate Carvalho and Alex most weeks.

True, but this season has seen probably the worst defence from the top teams across the board I can remember. It's rubbish defending that is stopping anyone running away with the title at this point, and given that Ferdinand and Van de Sar injuries account for United's deficiencies, I doubt the chopping and changing of centre backs at Chelsea is helping Cech's confidence. I'm a big fan of settled defences, I think StartingPrice makes good points.

 

[StartingPrice]

I keep hearing that we need a settled defence but we haven't had that this season and we still have a good defensive record. Even top the league Chelsea rotate Carvalho and Alex most weeks.

And yet the period od our best defensive record coincided with the beginning of a settled defence for the first time:think: Actually, wasn't that a vital component part of my post that was quoted:roll:

Matt C. - I was one of the first on this site (I believe) to make the comparison between Ledders and Paul McGrath (and not just in the drunken-antic stakes:grin. I then came to the conclusion that the game has fundamentally changed since then and McGrath had truly tremendous players covering for him.

People, please, this is not a sadistic personal atack on the beloved Ledders. I have suggested that as well as ambassadorial and coaching roles he should keep his player registration. Just concerned that in the medium to long term we may be harming ourselves for the (more-and-more) occasional short-term salves.

 

[TopSpurMan]

I have to say the love affair with Ledders is irksome at times - he is not the player he was and if he were treated as a squad player who plays when fit then so be it and no in this respect he has not held us back provided the powers that be did not rely on him getting fit and never bought a world class centre back. we all knew 2 seasons back we needed a top class defence so we buy darren? now someone somewhere either thought that the defence as was great or relied on ledders getting fit.

harry has already said it is a miracle that the man is playing. so now we have the facts - he is an excellent player that can occasionally play - ok does that make him captain material?

no of course not we need a strong captain on the pitch that can praise those doing well and boll**k those shirking. presferably organise the defence and make an excellent defensive unit - keeper and back 4

playing partnerships if you like - can ledders contribute to that? well not if he is not there, not if he is not traning

ask yourselves would anyone buy him? so what is his resale value?

enough said

 

[shelfsideyid]

As a Spurs fan who loves & respects Ledders' & agrees had he not had his injury problems he would have been a England great as well as the Tottenham great which he undoubtedly has been.........

But the long term benefits of a settled CB pairing ( particularly a pair as good as Daws/Seb) now outweighs the short term gain of playing King as & when he's fit.

 

[jonnyp]

I stopped at "Ledley King was a wonderful player". He has proven again and again that he can still compete at the highest level, so is still is a wonderful player. I think the Arsenal game was one of very few where he has been very poor. But as long as he can still perform when he does play, then i dont see a problem. I think of him more like a squad player now though. If he's fit then great, but we need to be sure we have good backup, which we do now. I dont think we're in that situation where we need King to be fit anymore. Bassong and Dawson are putting together a great partnership now. And King and Woodgate are the experienced centre backs that Naybet was several years ago.

If he starts performing badly on a regular basis then i'd say its time to let him go (or for him to retire). But that time is not now.

Completely agree. What an idiotic article.

 

[Sputic]

I keep hearing that we need a settled defence but we haven't had that this season and we still have a good defensive record. Even top the league Chelsea rotate Carvalho and Alex most weeks.

Except we have had a 'settled defence' this season. Settled doesn't mean that you never make changes. Apart from a couple of games where Woodgate featured it's been two of Dawson, King and Bassong ever since Daws came back from injury.

Besides 'settled defence' is one of those meaningless cliches that people like to hang on to for some reason. Like 'top 4 material' and 'world class' and 'balanced midfield'. So we have to put up with listening to this nonsense.

King's the best centre half at the club and should therefore play when he's fit until such time as he is unable to play often enough to justify his wages. We haven't reached that point yet so Ledley is still a going concern.

 

[StartingPrice]

Except we have had a 'settled defence' this season. Settled doesn't mean that you never make changes. Apart from a couple of games where Woodgate featured it's been two of Dawson, King and Bassong ever since Daws came back from injury.

Besides 'settled defence' is one of those meaningless cliches that people like to hang on to for some reason. Like 'top 4 material' and 'world class' and 'balanced midfield'. So we have to put up with listening to this nonsense.

King's the best centre half at the club and should therefore play when he's fit until such time as he is unable to play often enough to justify his wages. We haven't reached that point yet so Ledley is still a going concern.

1) "Settled defence" is nlt a meaningless cliche. Actually it is something that observers have been, er, observing for many, many years. Observers observered teams dominating the football scene for over a decade at time (Liverpool, United) WITH a "settled back four", and rthen, when that "settled back 4" was disrupted (for whatever reason) the defence began to fall apart, and results began to to awry. It hasn't 'just been invented' - please try to accept that your asssertion that 'it has just been invented' was 'just invented':grin:

2) No-one has ever suggested that Ledders isn't 'the best centre half at the club'. In fact, most posters, myself included, have gone to extraordinary lengths to voice their admiration for King as a player and his level of ability - largely because of the outraged berratting that any suggestion that Ledders is 'on his last legs' (if you'll pardon the pun) seems to inevitably engender.

3) Please, try to understand, the sentiment we are voicing is not based only on Ledley's ability to only play one game a week, but also by his inability to trin, which inevitably makes him susceptible to further (and complicating) injuries - like his recent hamstring. There is aklso the fact that Woodgate is constantly injured, meaning we are left with two (let's face it) back-up defenders, and Ledders, who can't train, and is susceptible to further injuries.

No-one WANTS to see the man retire, for goodness sake. And no-one who suggests we need to look at further options supports ledley or the tema less than you do. We are just being pragmatic. The fac tis that having a settled defence does make a difference, we will never have one while Ledley is automatic first-choice the moment he is even half-fit, and he may well do himself some permanent damage (have you considered that). As I have said several timers, my personal preference would be to give him an ambassadorial role, induct him into the cvoaching staff, and retain his playing registration so he can still play when called upon - surely no-one could suggest that is disrespectful:shrug: But some of us have been 'observing' over recent seasons how relaiance on Ledley has been blighting our progress. His return to fitness was put back and back, so that no replacement was bought, and now we run the risk of never having a settled thing (which is actually something to strive for - otherswise why would so many footballing people, who make a living from it, put such emphasis on it:shrug becusae he will never be fit, but still MUST (in the imperative) be included in the team whenever even half fit (whenever that is).

 

[si_yidarmy]

One of the players, Dawson I think, explained how they all totally respect him and understand that if he's fit he plays because he's absoultely world-class. So not really worried about effect on morale.

The rest of it we already know

i second this... best defender in the world i say on his day! no doubt about it! I say let him continue as a spurs legend and even if he plays one game a season, i would let him stick around....just reduce his wages perhaps

 

[WexfordTownSpur]

Ledley when fit is still one of the top 4 or 5 CBs

Nuff said:shrug: