Lionel Messi- The Record Breaker

[THFCSPURS19]

and is it only one type of player that can be successful in the PL then? it's just absurd IMO to just assume that a player that has absolutely dominated domestic and European football, broken almost every record going, and walked off the pitch head and shoulders above the best of the rest more times than you could ever care to remember would suddenly lose the ability to do what he does better than just about anyone ever has JUST because he was suddenly up against the might of Aston Villa, Stoke, Everton etc.

the superiority complex surrounding the PL really does astound me sometimes

I agree with you, I'm just saying why Suarez did so well

 

[knilly]

For me Messi is the best player, above Ronaldo and above every other player. His statistics are outrageous.

To say he hasn't proved it in another league is just trying to deflect from his achievements. It's not even as though he plays for his local team.

It's like saying Giggs, Scholes, Gerrard are not great players because they only played in one league and for only one club.

For me I hope he stays at Barca and finishes his career in the way that Giggs did.

 

[GMI]

based on what though? lower down, there's no real definitive way of comparing sides in the bottom half of each table, but I can't see how the likes of West Brom, Hull, or Sunderland are any better or worse than Getafe, Almeria, or Granada for instance. swap both sets of teams over, and you really think there would be that much difference in their finishing positions? the PL just does a MUCH better job of administration, marketing itself as the greatest thing in all of creation, and obviously TV money distribution than in La Liga which creates a bit of an illusion of a difference in competitiveness between the two. but as someone who watches pretty much the same amount of both, there's really not that much difference. top 3 in Spain last season won 82 games between them and lost 14, while the top 3 here won 78 and lost 18. the bottom 3 in Spain won 23 and lost 60, the bottom 3 here won 24 and lost 67. Real and Barca scored 104 and 100 goals respectively, Man City and Liverpool scored 102 and 101. Betis conceded 78 goals, Fulham conceded 85, -42 goals difference to -45....there's really not that much in it.

Slight tangent...but who is the Spanish Spurs?. Traditional club with history and reputation for flair. Also have a tendency to shoot themselves in the foot regularly and are view as softies?

 

[GMI]

[QUOTE="the superiority complex surrounding the PL really does astound me sometimes[/QUOTE]

I recall the shock from the media that Guardiola left Barcelona and didn't come to the Premier Lague. I think City and Chelsea both assumed he wouldbe begging to manage them.

 

[Spurger King]

Slight tangent...but who is the Spanish Spurs?. Traditional club with history and reputation for flair. Also have a tendency to shoot themselves in the foot regularly and are view as softies?

Used to be Atletico until they got their shit together.

 

[goughie1966]

For me Messi is the best player, above Ronaldo and above every other player. His statistics are outrageous.

To say he hasn't proved it in another league is just trying to deflect from his achievements. It's not even as though he plays for his local team.

It's like saying Giggs, Scholes, Gerrard are not great players because they only played in one league and for only one club.

For me I hope he stays at Barca and finishes his career in the way that Giggs did.

Actually Giggs, Scholes and Gerrard aren't 'great' players for exactly the reason you stated. They're good club players, but hardly great. They've all done bugger all at international level too. If you asked 100 football fans to name their top 10 players of all time I'd be amazed if any of those three got into anyone's top 10.

I love Messi too and feel we're lucky to have been around to witness him at his peak. As I've stated earlier he plays football on carpets, with soft boots and with the highest amount of protection from referees compared to players who plied their trade 30 years ago. Would Messi have been so great in the 70's playing on mud baths and being kicked up in the air by thuggish defenders? Who knows. It's difficult to compare.

I think it's better to say he is the greatest of his generation (better than C Ronaldo), as was Pele in his, Maradona in his and Brazilian Ronaldo in his.

Messi's still 104 goals behind the great Jimmy Greaves and 142 behind Gerd Muller who scored an incredible 395 goals from 476 games.

 

[THFCSPURS19]

He's back.

 

[THFCSPURS19]

Scored another hat-trick today. 30 in La Liga this season, 41 in all competitions (in 38 games). He scored it in 11 minutes and now has the record fro the most hat-tricks in La Liga history.

And this pretty much sums up why I think Messi is 'back'.

22 November 2014: Messi 7 goals - Ronaldo 20 goals

8 March 2015: Messi 30 goals - Ronaldo 30 goals

 

[mark87]

Scored another hat-trick today. 30 in La Liga this season, 41 in all competitions (in 38 games). He scored it in 11 minutes and now has the record fro the most hat-tricks in La Liga history.

And this pretty much sums up why I think Messi is 'back'.

22 November 2014: Messi 7 goals - Ronaldo 20 goals

8 March 2015: Messi 30 goals - Ronaldo 30 goals

Yeah but Kane's better innit.

 

[nightgoat]

Actually Giggs, Scholes and Gerrard aren't 'great' players for exactly the reason you stated. They're good club players, but hardly great. They've all done bugger all at international level too. If you asked 100 football fans to name their top 10 players of all time I'd be amazed if any of those three got into anyone's top 10.

"Scholes is undoubtedly the greatest midfielder of his generation." - Zinedine Zidane

"Paul Scholes is a role model. For me – and I really mean this – he's the best central midfielder I've seen in the last 15, 20 years." - Xavi

 

[tonyc]

"Scholes is undoubtedly the greatest midfielder of his generation." - Zinedine Zidane

"Paul Scholes is a role model. For me – and I really mean this – he's the best central midfielder I've seen in the last 15, 20 years." - Xavi

Assume Xavi wasn't talking about his tackle timing ability...

 

[CornerPinDreamer]

Actually Giggs, Scholes and Gerrard aren't 'great' players for exactly the reason you stated. They're good club players, but hardly great. They've all done bugger all at international level too. If you asked 100 football fans to name their top 10 players of all time I'd be amazed if any of those three got into anyone's top 10.

I love Messi too and feel we're lucky to have been around to witness him at his peak. As I've stated earlier he plays football on carpets, with soft boots and with the highest amount of protection from referees compared to players who plied their trade 30 years ago. Would Messi have been so great in the 70's playing on mud baths and being kicked up in the air by thuggish defenders? Who knows. It's difficult to compare.

I think it's better to say he is the greatest of his generation (better than C Ronaldo), as was Pele in his, Maradona in his and Brazilian Ronaldo in his.

Messi's still 104 goals behind the great Jimmy Greaves and 142 behind Gerd Muller who scored an incredible 395 goals from 476 games.

.. also neither Messi nor CRonaldo seem to have been able to lead their teams to world cup glory.. I think that is also a factor when comparing against Maradona for example..

 

[Lifeson]

.. also neither Messi nor CRonaldo seem to have been able to lead their teams to world cup glory.. I think that is also a factor when comparing against Maradona for example..

He had the hand of god though..

 

[worcestersauce]

Round of applause for growth hormones and steroids
Great player but I just keep coming back to the fact that Roberto Soldado Scored 25, 27 & 30 goals in his three seasons with Valencia.

 

[ohtottenham!]

Round of applause for growth hormones and steroids
Great player but I just keep coming back to the fact that Roberto Soldado Scored 25, 27 & 30 goals in his three seasons with Valencia.

Err...are we comparing Messi to Soldado? I don't remember Bobby ever terrorizing United, City or Arsenal, even Chelsea except they tried to kick Messi off the park and mark him with their entire back four. You're just comparing leagues and not looking at players and what they actually do on the field. Messi could play in any league and still be the best player!

 

[worcestersauce]

Err...are we comparing Messi to Soldado? I don't remember Bobby ever terrorizing United, City or Arsenal, even Chelsea except they tried to kick Messi off the park and mark him with their entire back four. You're just comparing leagues and not looking at players and what they actually do on the field. Messi could play in any league and still be the best player!

What I am saying is that a player that scored 30 goals in the Spanish league can't buy a goal in the Prem and that Messi wouldn't be breaking every record if he played in the Prem, it is easier to score goals in Spain you only have to look at Ronaldo's comparisonms to confirm that.
I also have a problem calling a player surgically enhanced and brought up on a diet of steroids the greatest ever player.

 

[Shadydan]

What I am saying is that a player that scored 30 goals in the Spanish league can't buy a goal in the Prem and that Messi wouldn't be breaking every record if he played in the Prem, it is easier to score goals in Spain you only have to look at Ronaldo's comparisonms to confirm that.
I also have a problem calling a player surgically enhanced and brought up on a diet of steroids the greatest ever player.

If Barca played in the Premiership you can put your house on Messi breaking records just like he is now.

 

[worcestersauce]

If Barca played in the Premiership you can put your house on Messi breaking records just like he is now.

I'd take that bet.
He would be a great player and score lots of goals but he wouldn't be breaking records like he is now.
Top scorers in the prem are Chelsea and City with 57 and 59 respectively in 28 games.
So far Barca have scored 4 goals on five occasions, 5 goals on six occasions, 6 goals on four occasions and 8 goals once, I didn't bother counting the three's and two's and that was just league and Copa del Ray thats 82 goals in 16 matches, I just don't see that happening in Engalnd, Barcelaona or anyone else and its daft to suggest it would.

 

[Ribble]

I also have a problem calling a player surgically enhanced and brought up on a diet of steroids the greatest ever player.

What? He's not got bionic legs you know!

As for the steroids, they were medical therapy which he needed regardless of being a football player, he was just lucky to be talented enough for Barca to pay for it. He's still only 5'6"-ish, and he's hardly comparable to CRonaldo or Bale in terms of physique now is he?

 

[worcestersauce]

What? He's not got bionic legs you know!

As for the steroids, they were medical therapy which he needed regardless of being a football player, he was just lucky to be talented enough for Barca to pay for it. He's still only 5'6"-ish, and he's hardly comparable to CRonaldo or Bale in terms of physique now is he?

I know they were medical but someone's body doesn't differentiate whether its for medical or cheating reasons it responds the same way and I am not saying he is a cheat I am saying it helped.
I am not saying he wasn't talented enough and I am not saying he isn't a great footballer I am saying he can't be called the greatest ever and that the stats are meaningless because he palys for Barcelona in Spain and that they would not be in any way comparable if he played in the English Premier league.