Loan Watch: Alfie Devine

[carpediem991]

Good luck Alfie. Hopefully he is impressing and making valuable steps forward in his progression.

 

[nicdic]

Feels like a division or two too low, we really really struggle to find good loans for our top talent. Hopefully though at League One level, he'll get 30-40 first team starts this season and that will do wonders for him.

 

[rabbikeane]

I like their kit

 

[littlewilly]

Good piece on the PV official site:

Alfie Devine joins the Valiants on season-long loan

Port Vale Football Club are delighted to confirm that Alfie Devine has joined the club on a season-long loan from Premier League side, Tottenham Hotspur.

www.port-vale.co.uk

 

[bbunc]

All about playing time vs adults. I like it. Seems like PV really sought him out and have a strategy where they want to be seen as place for top tier clubs’ developmental loanees. Have to assume he’ll be a starter and play a ton.

 

[BorjeSpurs]

Thing is though, He only turned 19 last week (feels like he's been here forever), and I;d worry that if a lower end championship club struggles, he wont get on the pitch as the manager starts to favour experienced defensive players over young AM's. More important to me he gets as many competitive minutes as possible, you'd think he'd be a starter and key fixture all year at Port Vale.

I'd agree that we should definitely err on the side of caution to make sure that he plays.

Alfie is such a talent though, and have been so impressive at national youth level - being named player of the tournament at u16 level, instrumental part of the England squad that won the u19 Euro Championship, highest English goal scorer at the U20 World Cup.

I look at other top 6 clubs that were able to give PL minutes for players of similar age (Rico Lewis, Chukwuemeka, Lewis Hall, Harvey Elliot, Garnacho etc). They might be more ready than Alfie is now, but no way the difference should be Top 6 PL minutes vs Port Vale minutes, IMO.

 

[nicdic]

Good piece on the PV official site:

Alfie Devine joins the Valiants on season-long loan

Port Vale Football Club are delighted to confirm that Alfie Devine has joined the club on a season-long loan from Premier League side, Tottenham Hotspur.

www.port-vale.co.uk

Good article

 

[Timberwolf]

I'd agree that we should definitely err on the side of caution to make sure that he plays.

Alfie is such a talent though, and have been so impressive at national youth level - being named player of the tournament at u16 level, instrumental part of the England squad that won the u19 Euro Championship, highest English goal scorer at the U20 World Cup.

I look at other top 6 clubs that were able to give PL minutes for players of similar age (Rico Lewis, Chukwuemeka, Lewis Hall, Harvey Elliot, Garnacho etc). They might be more ready than Alfie is now, but no way the difference should be Top 6 PL minutes vs Port Vale minutes, IMO.

I think it will be interesting to reassess that list of players when they're all, say, 22 or 23.

Like, is Harvey Elliot getting the occasional cup game for Liverpool or coming off the bench for Salah actually better for his long term development than 40+ full games of men's football at a lower level? And while Garnacho and Chukwuemeka are getting games now, that's largely due to injury and they'll be back to being bit-part players before long.

The youth players that actually ended up fully coming through at Chelsea like Mount, James, Tomori and co were the ones that went on lower league loans and got proper consistent game-time week-in, week-out. Unless a young player has a clear route to consistent first-team minutes, I'm not sure keeping them around to play the odd game here or there is actually any better than getting them proper minutes on loan.

Like, I think it's a case-by-case basis thing, and you need to judge each player based on their needs, attitude, position, path to minutes, etc when considering if a loan is the best option. And in Alfie's case I think a loan is definitely what he needs right now.

 

[HildoSpur]

Feels like a division or two too low, we really really struggle to find good loans for our top talent. Hopefully though at League One level, he'll get 30-40 first team starts this season and that will do wonders for him.

Really he needs lots of game time, he wouldn't be guaranteed that in the Championship probably. If he gets regular first team football it will be a valuable loan.

 

[Yiddo100]

Not too worried at the level he’s at now, probably the right call, if he does well then come January we’ll probably be looking at a championship loan for him anyway.

 

[BorjeSpurs]

I think it will be interesting to reassess that list of players when they're all, say, 22 or 23.

Like, is Harvey Elliot getting the occasional cup game for Liverpool or coming off the bench for Salah actually better for his long term development than 40+ full games of men's football at a lower level? And while Garnacho and Chukwuemeka are getting games now, that's largely due to injury and they'll be back to being bit-part players before long.

The youth players that actually ended up fully coming through at Chelsea like Mount, James, Tomori and co were the ones that went on lower league loans and got proper consistent game-time week-in, week-out. Unless a young player has a clear route to consistent first-team minutes, I'm not sure keeping them around to play the odd game here or there is actually any better than getting them proper minutes on loan.

Like, I think it's a case-by-case basis thing, and you need to judge each player based on their needs, attitude, position, path to minutes, etc when considering if a loan is the best option. And in Alfie's case I think a loan is definitely what he needs right now.

I think we probably agree on the topic overall in terms of Alfie needing a loan and play week-in, week out.

However, the players you mention are all different to Devine in terms of the level they got to play at. Mount, James & Tomori all played in the Championship as teenagers.

Elliot is not getting the occational cup game or coming off for Salah, he started 18 PL games and was subbed in for another 14 games last season. Garnacho has got minutes in every PL game since he made his first start for United (excluding 1 game he sat on the bench an entire game after an ankle injury). Chukwuemeka has started both games this season, scoring in the process, keeping a lot of expensive players on the bench.

Harvey White was also 19 when he joined a mid-table side in League 1 in Portsmouth, and I personally think that Devine's talent is closer to the names above than White.

 

[kmk]

Not too worried at the level he’s at now, probably the right call, if he does well then come January we’ll probably be looking at a championship loan for him anyway.

It’s a season long loan. He can’t move again in January unless Port Vale agree.

 

[funkycoldmedina]

Feels like a division or two too low, we really really struggle to find good loans for our top talent. Hopefully though at League One level, he'll get 30-40 first team starts this season and that will do wonders for him.

It's a fine line though isn't it. From his perspective a season of him excelling and playing every week will do wonders for him mentally. Most teams in the championship will see him as strength in depth or he'll be playing in a crap team. I get what you're saying though

 

[Timberwolf]

I think we probably agree on the topic overall in terms of Alfie needing a loan and play week-in, week out.

However, the players you mention are all different to Devine in terms of the level they got to play at. Mount, James & Tomori all played in the Championship as teenagers.

Elliot is not getting the occational cup game or coming off for Salah, he started 18 PL games and was subbed in for another 14 games last season. Garnacho has got minutes in every PL game since he made his first start for United (excluding 1 game he sat on the bench an entire game after an ankle injury). Chukwuemeka has started both games this season, scoring in the process, keeping a lot of expensive players on the bench.

Harvey White was also 19 when he joined a mid-table side in League 1 in Portsmouth, and I personally think that Devine's talent is closer to the names above than White.

Yeah fair point about Elliot - didn't realise he'd played that many games last season so I'm sure that was great for his development, although this season with their signings he'll be back to scrapping for minutes. I suspect that will also be the case for Chukwuemeka and Garnacho once United and Chelsea's business is done and/or their squads are fit.

I guess my overriding point is - a young player often needs consistent starts (or at least a regular minutes) to truly develop and if they can't get that at a top club then a loan can be better. Skipp's a prime example - he was getting the odd game here or there under Jose and Poch but it was the Norwich loan that really pushed him on not the random minutes or occasional starts at Spurs. And I wonder if that could end up being the case with some of the names you mention, even if they're getting some reasonable game-time now. Like is 1000 minutes at a top PL team better for a player's development than 3000 or 4000 mins at a lower level team?

Overall sounds like we're in agreement about Devine though, and if there was a Championship team that would give him guaranteed minutes I'd be all over that too.

 

[markt]

May be a league lower than expected, but hope it means he will be first choice and guaranteed starts (subject to him performing of course).

I wouldn't knock league 1 too much. If he gets used to physicality and used to playing every week in competitive football it could be a huge part of his development. Also hoping with his ability he can really shine in that league and grow in confidence.

 

[robotsonic]

Hopefully he smashes it for a few months and we can move him up a division in January if all has gone well. Good luck to the lad

 

[beats1]

Really bad loan imo, I fear he may get the shit kicked out of him and definitely won't be playing football that suits him

Ive seen the standard in league 1 and imo the league has gone backwards in he last 5 years. More bruisers than before as the good teams have gone up

 

[$hoguN]

Good luck to the lad, hopefully we can move him to a Championship club in January

 

[N'Obody]

Really bad loan imo, I fear he may get the shit kicked out of him and definitely won't be playing football that suits him

Ive seen the standard in league 1 and imo the league has gone backwards in he last 5 years. More bruisers than before as the good teams have gone up

I think it may be a good thing as it will help him get used to being a more physical player. We already know he has great technical ability already. If he can add that bit of steel and be able to handle the physical side of the game.

He could really become something special. Sometimes players need that tough love to excel to another level and he well definitely become a man playing with men in league one.

If this loan goes well. He could come back ready to challenge for a position in the squad for sure.

 

[McFlash]

Really bad loan imo, I fear he may get the shit kicked out of him and definitely won't be playing football that suits him

Ive seen the standard in league 1 and imo the league has gone backwards in he last 5 years. More bruisers than before as the good teams have gone up

He's young but he can take care of himself, remember the Drinkwater incident a while back?
I don't think he'll have any problems playing in L1 and a full season of proper tough, mens football will be good for his development. As long as he plays week in, week out.