Madness to get rid of Harry

[kaz Hirai]

i swear every fucker on here wanted him gone?

think we've all cooled off and thinking a bit clearer now from Harry gifting Arsenal 3rd place and champions league while he Flirted with the FA like a Vegas whore

 

[StartingPrice]

The problem is it isn't just about two top 4 finishes in 3 years, is it.
I am ambivalent on the matter.
On the one hand, he has given us some great memories and got us to places we haven't been in decades.
On the other hand, he, himself, through his own personality (one of the negatives) has dug himself into this position. After we showed loyalty through his court case and heart proedure, he whored himself out for the England job, even though everyone could see his inattentiveness was having a negative affect (and has since tried to take the opposite view, that the management instability is detrimental to the team). The bucked stopped with him for getting us 10 points clear in third, and he was more than happy to bask in that limelight, so he has to also accept the buck stopping with him for the momunemtal capitulation that saw the Goons finish ahead of us, and ultimately cost us millions (no, I know, Chelsea winning the CL wasn't his fault). Under these circumstances, he should have known he couldn't just go back to Levy and demand the same deal that was offered to him when we thought we would lose him to England, because, firstly, the cards were all in his hand then, they aren't now - deal with it Aitch; and, secondly, we had daylight between us and fourth at the time, and his team, for whom he is responsible, through that away. And he shouldn't have went all motormouth in the media about his contract situation while Dan Levy was burying his mother.

In the final analysis, for me, he does need to be either given a contract extension (and won't be too worried at that, as I think he will get back to doing a reasonable job), or he has to be replaced. After everything he (Redknapp) said about having a year remaining being unsettling to the players, he has effectively twisted and if he gets 22 or higher both himself, and everyone on here who want him to remain, has to just accept that. My feeling is that he would have deserved to lead us into the CL again, but that has been taken away from him. And at 65 YO, with a heart problem, and some of his more negative aspect having come to the fore, I can just understand it if Mr Levy decides to act now, and get in a younger manager to, hopefully, give us another bout of stability.

At the end of the day, he has acted in a way that I could understand Levy being pissed, and, under those circumstances, if it were you, would you want to continue to work with the guy?

 

[nferno]

i'm so disapointed no-one on the first page replied with "madness?! this is <insert spurs/sparta pun>"

 

[Stavrogin]

My point is that he should not be considered a long-term option for the reasons given (health/age/history of quitting) - therefore he should not be given a contract extension at this stage.

And also, this was notionally his last year - he should have gone on to England. Everyone expected it, everyone was happy with the scenario. So for him to stay on means we're moving into a new era that no one planned for and which is a compromise of sorts. so awkard. (and not necessarily anyone's fault)

 

[brasil_spur]

I agree, it's like Jol all over again.

I would expect anther Ramos too!

Yeh that worked out really badly for us in the long term, CL football and a piece of Silverware.

 

[bk75]

Ive been a harry fan, he has done wonders for us in a relatively short period of time. But he is too old
school imo and modern football has moved on. He didnt rotate players enough and he was too slow
to react when things were going wrong in matches. He has done great and he has given me some
of my best spurs memories. Who could forget AC Milan, but its time for a younger brighter manager
that can take us forward for the long term. Moyes for me fits the bill and before anyone says but he
is a pragmatist and plays defensive football. I would say with our squad at his disposal he would strike
the right balance between defending and attacking.

 

[Marty]

And also, this was notionally his last year - he should have gone on to England. Everyone expected it, everyone was happy with the scenario. So for him to stay on means we're moving into a new era that no one planned for and which is a compromise of sorts. so awkard. (and not necessarily anyone's fault)

Agree with this.

Harry's 65 and has had a (albeit minor) heart op. That alone is reason to be sceptical about offering him a new deal. In addition to that, he puts his foot in his mouth in front of the press, and he is responsible for overseeing a collapse that would be talked about far more in the press if it hadn't been for Liverpool's demise and the City-United back-and-forth (really, there were an incredible amount of talking points this season...).

If I was Levy I'd tell Harry that he wouldn't be getting a contract before Christmas given the above reasons, and if I was Harry I'd accept that and try to channel that into getting the best possible start to next season so Levy would pretty much have to offer me a new contract. Use it as a motivation tool to the players too, say "if you want me to stay here, do your job on the pitch" (of course that might be a bit risky but players like Bale, VdV and Walker certainly enjoy playing for Harry).

If he can't accept that we at least want to see how next season starts before offering him a new deal, I can understand Levy wanting to part company with him now.

 

[tototoner]

And also, this was notionally his last year - he should have gone on to England. Everyone expected it, everyone was happy with the scenario. So for him to stay on means we're moving into a new era that no one planned for and which is a compromise of sorts. so awkard. (and not necessarily anyone's fault)

this is a good point

but then why did Levy sit and watch Rodgers go to Liverpool

he would have been perfect for us, a better fit than at the scousers

 

[kazzah9]

Who is this "madness" and why does he want HR out?

 

[tototoner]

couple of decent TOPSPURS articles

http://www.topspurs.com/newsnow/thfccol-130612a.htm?

13th June 2012 - Be careful what you wish for………

I was lying in bed one morning over the Jubilee weekend and stumbled across, on Sky Sports, a Premier League Years programme. You know the one where Sky pluck a random year from their Premier League archive and run a timeline of the title race and relegation battle. The year in question escapes me (though it was the late 90s) and I was lying there wondering which Spurs vintage we would be treated to seeing walloped by the likes of Leicester City or Middlesbrough (I can remember being at WHL for 0-3 embarrassment and actually left after 65 minutes!) and said to the ever suffering wife laying next to me. “If any Spurs fans think Redknapp is clueless then they should be forced to watch every single one of these Premier League Years”.

Lets face it, throughout the Premier League (and a few years before its inception) we have been mediocre at best and sometimes managed to find ourselves in a relegation scrap. Admittedly there have been a smattering of impressive performances but, until the appointment of a certain Henry James Redknapp, the best we could look forward to was the occasional cup run and a new manager every couple of years. At the time of writing rumours of Redknapp’s resignation have been rife and subsequently denied by the man himself and in my daily trawling through the Newsnow pages I am amazed to see the amount of anti-Redknapp hysteria being spewed out. Yes he has his faults, yes he wanted to manage his country (why wouldn’t he?), yes we let third slip through our fingers but the objective of the season was to finish fourth which we achieved. If we hold our nerve, hold on to our best players and tweak the squad just a bit there is no reason why the same can’t be achieved next season and maybe even slightly improve

If this all ends badly for Redknapp and he either walks or gets pushed it could end badly for us. Players will become unsettled and the new manager will have a different take on the way the team should play and the make-up of it. We have seen some of the best football at WHL for many, many years and whilst we have yet to win anything under Redknapp at least we are being entertained. It could be worse, you could be a Villa fan! I, for one, hope Redknapp gets the new contract he deserves and is allowed to carry on the good work done so far.

Up the Lilywhites!!


Casper WelshSpur

http://www.topspurs.com/newsnow/jmdview130612a.htm?

13th June 2012 – Manager update

Being away during silly season is usually a good idea, but the twitter rumour that Redknapp had been dismissed reeled me back in. The rumour, like most football related stuff over the summer turned out to be cobblers turned, more froth to keep the internet sites who deal in this stuff ticking over in advertising revenue, but the denial from Redknapp ended up being quite candid. Read it here http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18418066 the salient bits are below:

"The simple situation is I've got a year left on my contract. It's up to Tottenham whether they want to extend that contract or not.​

"If they don't extend it and I go into my last year, it's not an easy one when players know you've only got a year left.​

"It's not a case of me looking for security. What it's about is players knowing you've only got one year left on your contract and knowing that it doesn't work, basically.​

"I think it's a situation of 'well, he might not be here next year'. You don't let players run into the last year of their contract if you think they're any good and you don't let managers run into the last year of their contract if you think they're any good.​

"It's up to Tottenham. If they think I'm OK and I've done a decent job and deserve an extension, they'll give it to me."​

Its very honest stuff – back me or sack me.
If supporters guessed there was something simmering beneath the surface, its very much in the open now. Spurs first new signing of the summer will be the manager – Redknapp or someone else. No doubt supporters who prefer soppy platitudes over honesty will find reason to be outraged once again.

Given how Spurs form fell apart when the managerial uncertainty occurred after the England position became vacant, Levy would be foolish to let this uncertain situation rumble on into the new season, or very much longer if summer signings bedded in before the start of the season are to happen.

With a record of 71 wins in 144 league games and 1.74 points per game Click here for Redknapp at Spurs, the first time three consecutive top 6 finishes for over 50 years etc, not only does Redknapp not have any peers in the modern era, it is also the best record of all Spurs managers http://www.topspurs.com/thfc-managers-index.htm
As the table shows, not only does Redknapp have the best record, apart from the legends Billy Nick, Arthur Rowe and General B he is now the longest serving manager since the war, which should surely quash any of this idiotic ‘disloyal’ stuff and is surely deserving of respect. Redknapp does not ‘love’ Spurs like most of the fans do between the endless bitching/never satisfied moans. Professional people in football rarely have the affection a fan does for their employer, but he has done a good job and seems to be very honest about his motivations and the repercussions around the uncertainty over his contract. Fans should judge footballers by their own standards in everyday life, if you’ve stayed at one place for 20 years forsaking better career opportunities/money, feel free to cast the first stone but if you have, well …. Hmm

The problem is that the England situation/loss of form/4th not being good enough for CL has created a bit of an issue. While Redknapp’s record is excellent, with an old keeper, injury prone centre backs, transfer uncertainty over two best midfielders, and no CL quality strikers on the books – are Spurs in good shape to reproduce the form of the last three seasons next year? Can Spurs afford to remedy these issues on their budget? Is the Harry magic on the wane naturally (as most managers become less effective over time)?

Just because Redknapp has been an excellent manager over the previous four seasons, the upper management at Spurs should (and don’t seem) to harbour any sentiment over the future. Hopefully having learned the lessons from Santini, Ramos and the disaster of the director of football arrangement and how quickly good can go bad, if Spurs are going to replace Redknapp – it has to be with a real top notcher, and backed with a budget to remedy the squad issues identified before.
If there is no money available for squad upgrades, Spurs may be on course for a decline anyway and whoever is in the managers seat has a tough task.

In someways its similar to the Jol situation in 2007 – stick with generational high league finishes (5th/UEFA) or twist for something better. If Spurs can get Mourinho/Guardiola and back them with finance for CL quality players, everyone should welcome the upgrade (as long as the finance is sustainable) but if its Martinez with a bargain budget, perhaps Redknapp & the mini golden era will finally get the respect he deserves with the benefit of hindsight.

And of course, either of those alternatives is better than a summer of uncertainty, no one signing, a poor start and Redknapp sacked after 6-10 games, which has happened four of the last nine seasons under Levy

Spurs need to be bold, keep striving for excellence but only change for an upgrade and not for the sake of it

 

[dav3j]

Totally agree.

We are a top 4 team, challenging for the champions league spot, playing very attractive football. Why would we want to get rid of our most successful manager in decades?

What guarantees have we got that the next manager will be any good? We got rid of Jol to bring in Ramos who was a top manager in Spain. Where did that get us?

Keep Harry at any cost.

Really?! Any cost? Come on, he may have done well for us but to bend over and let that same slimy shit who negotiated Rooney's latest paycheck screw the club over? I think not.

I was prepared to let Arry see his contract out, as if it weren't for Chelski winning that game, 4th would have secured us CL. And of course, that's not taking into account his lack of interest with the club when it looked like he was getting the England job, which is probably grounds for a sacking in itself. He's most certainly not in a position to play hardball and try and grind out a new contract with a new agent. I think he's given Levy enough justification to sack him, I just hope Levy has good replacements lined up.

 

[wcfnw]

Yeh that worked out really badly for us in the long term, CL football and a piece of Silverware.

Good God what sort of twisted logic is that!

While we're at it who was our manager that got us Champions League football?

 

[InOffMeLeftShin]

I think we'll struggle to bring in a coach who will instantly match the success of Harry but I don't think a few skirmishes with the Champions League has ever been Levy's intention. He wants to make Tottenham at the forefront of the footballing world, THE London team, iconic for their image on and off the pitch, iconic state of the art stadium, top training facilities and academy that will produce super-star calibre talent and be the envy of clubs around the world and to have a team that competes at the highest level with a flamboyant and devastating style.

Now I am not saying that is ever going to be easy to do especially as we aren't a multi-billionaires play thing but that I believe is still his vision. For that to work it has to be a long term system and structure, it has to be a coach invested in developing an ethos, a style of football, a mentality throughout the side. If Levy has no belief in Harry doing that for the next ten years and has already lost hope in Harry making us significantly better in the short term than now is as good a time as any to move on (if he has a coach lined up who meets all the criteria).

That's not me saying I want Harry to leave, just trying thinking out loud what might be going through Levy's mind if the relationship with Harry has broken.

 

[ultimateloner]

The problem is it isn't just about two top 4 finishes in 3 years, is it.
I am ambivalent on the matter.
On the one hand, he has given us some great memories and got us to places we haven't been in decades.
On the other hand, he, himself, through his own personality (one of the negatives) has dug himself into this position. After we showed loyalty through his court case and heart proedure, he whored himself out for the England job, even though everyone could see his inattentiveness was having a negative affect (and has since tried to take the opposite view, that the management instability is detrimental to the team). The bucked stopped with him for getting us 10 points clear in third, and he was more than happy to bask in that limelight, so he has to also accept the buck stopping with him for the momunemtal capitulation that saw the Goons finish ahead of us, and ultimately cost us millions (no, I know, Chelsea winning the CL wasn't his fault). Under these circumstances, he should have known he couldn't just go back to Levy and demand the same deal that was offered to him when we thought we would lose him to England, because, firstly, the cards were all in his hand then, they aren't now - deal with it Aitch; and, secondly, we had daylight between us and fourth at the time, and his team, for whom he is responsible, through that away. And he shouldn't have went all motormouth in the media about his contract situation while Dan Levy was burying his mother.

In the final analysis, for me, he does need to be either given a contract extension (and won't be too worried at that, as I think he will get back to doing a reasonable job), or he has to be replaced. After everything he (Redknapp) said about having a year remaining being unsettling to the players, he has effectively twisted and if he gets 22 or higher both himself, and everyone on here who want him to remain, has to just accept that. My feeling is that he would have deserved to lead us into the CL again, but that has been taken away from him. And at 65 YO, with a heart problem, and some of his more negative aspect having come to the fore, I can just understand it if Mr Levy decides to act now, and get in a younger manager to, hopefully, give us another bout of stability.

At the end of the day, he has acted in a way that I could understand Levy being pissed, and, under those circumstances, if it were you, would you want to continue to work with the guy?

I think this is a very emotional perspective and irrelevant. What matters is whether he is the best man available for the next 3 years. Talking about whether he had been loyal/being selfish/backing the wrong horse etc should have no bearing on this (because this is what you'd expect from a man of his position; everyone wants to optimise); what we need is someone who would give us the performances we want, not a 'nice loyal guy' (loyalty gets you nowhere in sport).

Therefore unless we get someone better i can't see a reason for ditching him. The candidates mooted so far (Martinez/Moyes) are not as good so shouldn't be considered. Age isn't an issue because theres no reason why he can't work for the next 3 years.

 

[Eric_s]

Absolute madness I say! It's Harry for crying out loud and it took an eternity for a Harry thread to be started.
The lot of you show no respect to our best manager for the last 20 years.

 

[Eric_s]

Yeh that worked out really badly for us in the long term, CL football and a piece of Silverware.

Fully agree. It's turn out good which is why Spurs fans are torn apart again at the prospect of change.

 

[SNAFU_Clarke]

how long is long term? the average duration of a managerial spell in the premier league is currently running at about 2 years according to the LMA. redknapp is currently the 5th longest serving manager in the premier league and 9th in all 4 divisions.

personally i don't see his age as an issue at all really. the fact that he has quit before now really isn't a factor in my opinion. i'd be interested to hear why you think it is. his health issues could be a factor, but i'd have thought he either has been given a clean bill of health or he hasn't. i think if there were concerns about his health we would have let him go before now.

 

[SNAFU_Clarke]

And also, this was notionally his last year - he should have gone on to England. Everyone expected it, everyone was happy with the scenario. So for him to stay on means we're moving into a new era that no one planned for and which is a compromise of sorts. so awkard. (and not necessarily anyone's fault)

that's not true though is it? he had a contract with a year left on it. it was expected that he'd be here to honour it at the time it was signed.

 

[Piaki]

you don't know what you have till its gone
kEEP HIM!!!

 

[SNAFU_Clarke]

I think he's given Levy enough justification to sack him.

Such as...