Midfield options...

[ajspurs]

I think we are really missing him. Sandro patrolling that space in front of the back four waiting to make his move to win the ball back, relying on positional sense and timing, as oppossed to chasing it is making a difference to how we function as well. Winning the ball back and releasing it quickly is key, to use AVB's line here....a quick transition, from defence to attack.

I think with Dembele and Sandro the roles were clearer, with Parker and Dembele its seem to me the roles arn't as defined, or at least it looks that way. They're both trying to do a little bit of everything, hold and tackle, venture forward on the ball etc, obviously playing in midfield anywhere requires all these things at times, but in terms of who's got more responsibility for what ...and the result is we have a sterile midfield at present.

Parker has a lot of experience and is a little terrier, but he's also getting on a bit now. He has always been an all action sort of midfielder, but I would like to see him just hold with the onus being on Dembele to drive us forward more. The problem is I don't think Parker is as good as Sandro at that role....the positioning, timing...knowing when to press more or put in a tackle or when to rely on positional sense and to just, er, hold.

Of course much depends on Dembele having more confidence to drive us forward. The midfield dynamic has to improve before we get down to business for the run in, that's my thoughts anyway.

Parker should be up for playing against his ex Club, so I would still be playing him in all likelihood - just want to see a more functioning central midfield on the ball come Monday.

I've been saying this for ages, even under Harry last season there were times when Parker ventured forward too much for my liking. He's not as good as Sandro when it comes to protecting the defence but for England he played the strict back 4 protection role brilliantly and just leaves the advanced players to do the attacking work and I never knew why he didn't a lot of the time for us. I said in the match thread yesterday too, in a strange way he was seeing way too much of the ball for a DM yesterday, he was playing the deep playmaker role almost, a role that certainly isn't his.

 

[tobi]

Agree with all of that, especially about Parker, or at least his type of player; be it Sandro, Parker or Livermore. You need a destroyer to break up opponents attacks and feed it to the right player to start our own. With Sandro he can do both!

In Sandro's absence we wouldn't need a replacement destroyer if the team was capable of keeping possession whilst working the opposition, unfortunately we don't have the right players for this.

 

[Mr Pink]

I've been saying this for ages, even under Harry last season there were times when Parker ventured forward too much for my liking. He's not as good as Sandro when it comes to protecting the defence but for England he played the strict back 4 protection role brilliantly and just leaves the advanced players to do the attacking work and I never knew why he didn't a lot of the time for us. I said in the match thread yesterday too, in a strange way he was seeing way too much of the ball for a DM yesterday, he was playing the deep playmaker role almost, a role that certainly isn't his.

Yeah exactly mate. The role he played for England is what we need more of him doing now.

 

[sammysammy]

Since the Everton defeat, we have only conceded more than one goal on one occasion - against Leeds in the cup. In 13 out of 14 games we have, at most, conceded one goal. This is almost unheard of for a Tottenham side! There are probably many reasons for this - the form of Lloris and Dawson and the hard work defensively from Lennon and Dempsey - but surely it has a lot to do with two central midfielders sitting deep and making sure we keep possession. We might not be scoring a hatful of goals and it might not be as much fun to watch as the last few seasons but it is really effective.

Clubs like Arsenal and Liverpool have this season had a few games where they have spanked the opposition but they have conceded a lot and looked vulnerable against 'lesser' teams. We have been more consistent and that is partly due to the shape of the team.

Replacing Parker with Holtby would definitely create more goal scoring opportunities - for us and the opposition. In that case it is a little bit like rolling the dice. AVB seems a lot more calculated than that and wants to create a solid platform - and rely on a few exceptional players to win us the game. This is how Mourinho has been so succesful.

 

[Donki]

We have to remember AVB isn't just putting players into positions and telling them to play their own game they are given the instructions to carry out, last night again we had over 60% of the ball which is AVBs game, keep the ball. You keep the ball by playing percentages, and chosing the option with less risk. It might not be as pretty as us Spurs fans would like but its effective, Lyon should be prasied for the disciplined display in the second half, they not only got their players behond the ball but they made very few mistakes and closed us down.

Its funny, Dempsey gets a hard time on here and rightly soo in some instances but when he came on I clearly remmeber 3 chances he had to score, once from a corner which was a great chance and 2 shots, one into the side netting. Why is it these chances are falling to him? Ok he should of done alot better but for the short period of time he was on the pitch he was a goal threat, AVB obviosly sees this or he wouldnt get on.

 

[kernowspur]

Parker's continuously turning first one way and then the other has frustrated me so much since his return that I am now shouting at the television everytime he does it, (much to the wife's amusment). In fact he does it just about everytime he gets the ball, which he is seeing far too much of for his lack of incisive passing ability. He is not the player he was last season and maybe the injury combined which age is having its affect. It has certainly affected Dembele since Sandro's injury.
I am worried that unless we can get back to a more threatening CM combination, which, if he plays, means Parker sits infront of the back four and Dembele pushes forward much more, or a diiferent CM pairing. Otherwise it is going to be a hard last third of the season.

 

[Mr Pink]

Since the Everton defeat, we have only conceded more than one goal on one occasion - against Leeds in the cup. In 13 out of 14 games we have, at most, conceded one goal. This is almost unheard of for a Tottenham side! There are probably many reasons for this - the form of Lloris and Dawson and the hard work defensively from Lennon and Dempsey - but surely it has a lot to do with two central midfielders sitting deep and making sure we keep possession. We might not be scoring a hatful of goals and it might not be as much fun to watch as the last few seasons but it is really effective.

Clubs like Arsenal and Liverpool have this season had a few games where they have spanked the opposition but they have conceded a lot and looked vulnerable against 'lesser' teams. We have been more consistent and that is partly due to the shape of the team.

Replacing Parker with Holtby would definitely create more goal scoring opportunities - for us and the opposition. In that case it is a little bit like rolling the dice. AVB seems a lot more calculated than that and wants to create a solid platform - and rely on a few exceptional players to win us the game. This is how Mourinho has been so succesful.

Sandro was in the side all the way up to the QPR game though. For me the balance was better in the side then. I would argue, other than a good second half against United, we've really been struggling since then. We are grinding out results but we can't rely on Bale to get us over the finishing line. We need to improve on the ball collectively otherwise I fear we might not have enough - no matter the better work ethic and edeavour as a side. We will at some point need to start looking more threatening or we won't have enough goals in us.

The small margins in our game have definitely increased under AVB and they were/are making a real difference but I do worry we might end up drawing too many games if these types of performances keep up. We need the midfield dynamic to click more and Dembele has to be the driving force there. If we can improve in that area, on the ball, I think we'll see more goals.

 

[Mr Pink]

Parker's continuously turning first one way and then the other has frustrated me so much since his return that I am now shouting at the television everytime he does it, (much to the wife's amusment). In fact he does it just about everytime he gets the ball, which he is seeing far too much of for his lack of incisive passing ability. He is not the player he was last season and maybe the injury combined which age is having its affect. It has certainly affected Dembele since Sandro's injury.
I am worried that unless we can get back to a more threatening CM combination, which, if he plays, means Parker sits infront of the back four and Dembele pushes forward much more, or a diiferent CM pairing. Otherwise it is going to be a hard last third of the season.

Totally agree.

 

[onthetwo]

Parker's continuously turning first one way and then the other has frustrated me so much since his return that I am now shouting at the television everytime he does it, (much to the wife's amusment). In fact he does it just about everytime he gets the ball, which he is seeing far too much of for his lack of incisive passing ability. He is not the player he was last season and maybe the injury combined which age is having its affect. It has certainly affected Dembele since Sandro's injury.
I am worried that unless we can get back to a more threatening CM combination, which, if he plays, means Parker sits infront of the back four and Dembele pushes forward much more, or a diiferent CM pairing. Otherwise it is going to be a hard last third of the season.

i agree and would be tempted to give Livermore more game time as i think he offers a bit more going forward. Everton at home last year was a great show from him if i remember rightly.

 

[Mr Pink]

i agree and would be tempted to give Livermore more game time as i think he offers a bit more going forward. Everton at home last year was a great show from him if i remember rightly.

Was at that game against Everton, he was very good. I think some more game time for him should definitely be considered.

*awaits Wheelerdeeler*

 

[SteveH]

Parker has his faults - but his energy in midfield is irreplaceable in the absence of Sandro.

Holtby for me has been caught up/lost in the midfield battle in the last few game. I was very impressed with his debut but he now ends up too get embroiled in the maelstrom of the AVB pressing game. I'm wondering if we are yet the fathom out his best spot. I watched him at Schalke in a 'Parker' role and was not overly impressed he was playing deep and not getting on the ball.

Dempsey, Gylfe and to a lesser extent Holtby do get left behind by the game at times.
AVB system does need very technically gifted players with above average close control and pace.

Dont see Clint and definitely Gylfe making the grade long term - sadly.

 

[Supersi32]

Dembele has a great engine, strong defensively, can glide past people and has wonderful technical ability. He just doesn`t have any passing range of note, it annoys me that recently he seems content to keep popping it off to Parker instead of driving on himself, because we when he does we all know what he can do.

 

[Mr Pink]

Dembele has a great engine, strong defensively, can glide past people and has wonderful technical ability. He just doesn`t have any passing range of note, it annoys me that recently he seems content to keep popping it off to Parker instead of driving on himself, because we when he does we all know what he can do.

I wouldn't go that far, but we do need to see more forward first time passes, and more give and goes etc. The ball he played for Adebayor in the home leg was a beaut.

I know what you mean though, we need more progressive passing as opposed to passive passing.

 

[onthetwo]

Dembele has a great engine, strong defensively, can glide past people and has wonderful technical ability. He just doesn`t have any passing range of note, it annoys me that recently he seems content to keep popping it off to Parker instead of driving on himself, because we when he does we all know what he can do.

if i was AVB i would personally bollock him (or set SF on him) after every match if he didnt have at least 3 shots on goal. Until that shot he wasnt creating anything with his passes or with his own shots in which case hes just a slightly more mobile Parker which i think is a big reason why we create so little at the moment. (Come back RatFace....we still love you!)

 

[Supersi32]

I wouldn't go that far, but we do need to see more forward first time passes, and more give and goes etc. The ball he played for Adebayor in the home leg was a beaut.

I know what you mean though, we need more progressive passing as opposed to passive passing.

Dembele could have put Bale clean through on at least 3 occassions last nite, either he didn`t see the pass or didn`t have the speed of thought to execute it, don`t get me wrong I really like Dembele but just now his reluctance to surge forward is giving Parker way to much of the ball. The one time Dembele takes responsibility last night and bang, he has to do that far more often, and play further forward. I will add, Dembele is absolute quality defensively too.

 

[double0]

Parker has finally been worked out by some who continually proclaimed him to be the best DM voting him footballer writers etc etc since slice bread, the 3 point turns followed by the around the world in 80 days has started to wear thin.

Don't get me wrong Parker does work extremely hard like Dawson you can't question their commitment, BUT on the ball his a trojon. Dembele's form has tailed off since Parker's been in the team for me he see's far to much of the ball (Parker) dwells for to long on it and doesnt release Dembele quickly enough whereas Sandro did.

Now in certain situation's in game play I'd love AVB to try Carroll. I honestly believe Dembele is strong enough to cover CM-even when he'd scored that goal against Lyon he was chasing back and intercepting ball and with Carroll alongside I see that combination working much better in certain situation when we need a bit of craft.

 

[Mr Pink]

Dembele could have put Bale clean through on at least 3 occassions last nite, either he didn`t see the pass or didn`t have the speed of thought to execute it, don`t get me wrong I really like Dembele but just now his reluctance to surge forward is giving Parker way to much of the ball. The one time Dembele takes responsibility last night and bang, he has to do that far more often, and play further forward. I will add, Dembele is absolute quality defensively too.

Not only did he ingore Bale's run, Lennon also got frustrated with him. Its not that he doesn't have any sort of passing range, although its certainly not his strength, its more his decision making that needs looking at.

Parker is seeing too much ball, its quite apparent and Dembele isn't driving anyhwere near enough from those deep central areas. Whether its intrustions, a lack of confidence or the two of them just not blending and understanding their roles and each others game yet - I'm not sure, but it needs to change if we want to look more dynamic going forward.

 

[nicdic]

I'd bring Livermore in. Never got why he gets so much stick. Always happy to receive the ball, sets a much higher tempo and is willing to try a forward pass.

 

[shyfx2k2]

I'd bring Livermore in. Never got why he gets so much stick. Always happy to receive the ball, sets a much higher tempo and is willing to try a forward pass.

True. The only time he got stick was when he was paired with Sandro...which was awful but wasn't his fault. Think it's worth a try.

 

[Mr Pink]

I'd bring Livermore in. Never got why he gets so much stick. Always happy to receive the ball, sets a much higher tempo and is willing to try a forward pass.

I thought he was good last season, well there was certainly some good performances in his twenty odd apperances....notably at home to Everton and United.

This season, partnering Sandro, it didn't work. The balance wasn't right at all and of course he became the scapegoat. I think we should definitely try him to see how we go, at least to have a look at another option if the same problems persist.