More positive view and a plea to fans ... and a worry ..

[EdmontonJohn]

I wish folks rated players at half-time (or until we let in daft goals). In our group, at half time, everyone thought we were in complete control, there was some excellent passing and phases of closing down, but we lacked incision at key times. The general view was that the team is making progress. The 5 in midefield all did ok (after Lamela's slow start) and Ade put himself about, didn't do too much ... but scored. That, to me is the reality of one half.

We then give away a stupid goal .. and then a little later, gave another away. Two things happened.

1. The players drained of confidence, lost patience and structure.
2. The fans, immediately started demanding we "get the ball forward", "get forward" and generally panicked. Sadly, the players seemed to listen and the gap between the headless checkens running upfield and the defence was too large, we lost shape, we wer Sh*t.

We have a a role to help the team .. we don't. The fans that are vocal and really, really not helping .. its up to them, but it makes us worse. Concentrating on the bad things, rather than seeing the good parts is never going to help a developing team. We will never maximise our points at WHL until we get decent support and calmness. Sure the players have to do it themselves, but they will get more points if we help.

My worry (other than the fans getting Pochetino the sack) is the lack of balance in the squad to fit Pochetino's style ..

1. We need players to play in the 3 behind a striker ... after the first choice what do we have? "Headless chicken" Townsend, right winger Lennon, Exhausted Paulinho? [Oh, why did Sigurdson go when he would suit this system better as an option than the players we kept]
2. Full-backs provide our width and need to be quick .. oh how we need Walker back .. perhaps we are just unlucky with Naughton also out
3. Mason is playing in the key role .. fundamental to the system .. he's doing ok .. but there is NO alternative .. and he's played 4 PL games!!!
4. The centre forward has to be able to link play when players are close to him, but also take long balls/hold up play ... Well, we don't trust Soldadowith long balls and please, watch Kane .. he is slow at running, slow to decide what to do and not very strong. Good finisher, but a slow JD

So, we have to be patient .. we have to let a manager build a squad that fits and that takes years (sadly Levy didn't realise how different 4-2-3-1 for Poch is from 4-3-3 under AVB)

COYS

 

[Larryjanta]

I wish folks rated players at half-time (or until we let in daft goals). In our group, at half time, everyone thought we were in complete control, there was some excellent passing and phases of closing down, but we lacked incision at key times. The general view was that the team is making progress. The 5 in midefield all did ok (after Lamela's slow start) and Ade put himself about, didn't do too much ... but scored. That, to me is the reality of one half.

We then give away a stupid goal .. and then a little later, gave another away. Two things happened.

1. The players drained of confidence, lost patience and structure.
2. The fans, immediately started demanding we "get the ball forward", "get forward" and generally panicked. Sadly, the players seemed to listen and the gap between the headless checkens running upfield and the defence was too large, we lost shape, we wer Sh*t.

We have a a role to help the team .. we don't. The fans that are vocal and really, really not helping .. its up to them, but it makes us worse. Concentrating on the bad things, rather than seeing the good parts is never going to help a developing team. We will never maximise our points at WHL until we get decent support and calmness. Sure the players have to do it themselves, but they will get more points if we help.

My worry (other than the fans getting Pochetino the sack) is the lack of balance in the squad to fit Pochetino's style ..

1. We need players to play in the 3 behind a striker ... after the first choice what do we have? "Headless chicken" Townsend, right winger Lennon, Exhausted Paulinho? [Oh, why did Sigurdson go when he would suit this system better as an option than the players we kept]
2. Full-backs provide our width and need to be quick .. oh how we need Walker back .. perhaps we are just unlucky with Naughton also out
3. Mason is playing in the key role .. fundamental to the system .. he's doing ok .. but there is NO alternative .. and he's played 4 PL games!!!
4. The centre forward has to be able to link play when players are close to him, but also take long balls/hold up play ... Well, we don't trust Soldadowith long balls and please, watch Kane .. he is slow at running, slow to decide what to do and not very strong. Good finisher, but a slow JD

So, we have to be patient .. we have to let a manager build a squad that fits and that takes years (sadly Levy didn't realise how different 4-2-3-1 for Poch is from 4-3-3 under AVB)

COYS

I was with you until the nonsense about Kane. Other than that, which I can't forgive, I agree with you

 

[EdmontonJohn]

I really hope you are right about Kane, but fear that a striker has to be quicker (mind and body) than he is .. would love to be proved wrong

 

[Larryjanta]

I really hope you are right about Kane, but fear that a striker has to be quicker (mind and body) than he is .. would love to be proved wrong

7 in 10 says you kind of already have. Also 3 in the prem last season. He should be starting for us IMO, our best striker.

 

[EdmontonJohn]

Sadly not .. JD scored 5 against Wigan

But its the wider picture of the squad structure and the negative fans that worries me .. we all haveviews/preferences for particular players we want to see play; that's fine.

 

[yankspurs]

Mason was our best player in the first half and has done very well in every game he has played, IMO. Very unfair to say he is a problem.

What I think is a problem with this team is the tremendous lack of width on attack and just the plain awful back 4(particularly the right side). Dier has done okay at rb, nothing special. But better than one would expect given this is his first games, pro or youth, in england and he is still very young). Kaboul had one good game all season where we could say he looked like his old self. Other that that, he hasnt looked good at all, IMO. Rose and Vertonghen have been our best defensemen this season, Naughton 3rd best.

The whole interchangeable AM 3 thing is an issue wrt the width. Since they all drift toward the middle no matter what side there on. The only players i saw out wide today were Rose, Kaboul and Adebayor(he always drifts out wide for some reason, always). Also, our attack is the furthest thing from fluid and natural. Just soooo forced. And it has seemed that way in every game regular and pre season, bar city and the pre season tour(hmmmm, anyone else see a common denominator there when you look at the teams????????).

Also, where the hell is ceballos? He really cant get a fucking game or a sub appearance in this shower of shit?

 

[Bobbins]

The idea that 11 professional footballers 'listened to the crowd' and that was why we lost is laughable. They should be good enough at the game and the manager should have enough control over how the team plays to play exactly how they want to, depending on the opposition. If the crowd are demanding the ball go forwards quickly but the manager wants to build up slowly, then the players should be listening to the bloody manager and doing what he says.

And the stuff about Kane is utter garbage, it really is. "A slow JD". Seriously what the fuck are you on about. You could not get two more diametrically opposed footballing styles between the two of them. Embarrassing.

 

[EdmontonJohn]

Mason was our best player in the first half and has done very well in every game he has played, IMO. Very unfair to say he is a problem

Indeed Mason is good, my pointis that he is the ONLY player we have that can play there and we shouldn't be in the position that the KEY role in our team has to be filled by someone who has played just 4 PL games.

 

[spurs9]

I wish folks rated players at half-time (or until we let in daft goals). In our group, at half time, everyone thought we were in complete control, there was some excellent passing and phases of closing down, but we lacked incision at key times. The general view was that the team is making progress. The 5 in midefield all did ok (after Lamela's slow start) and Ade put himself about, didn't do too much ... but scored. That, to me is the reality of one half.

We then give away a stupid goal .. and then a little later, gave another away. Two things happened.

1. The players drained of confidence, lost patience and structure.
2. The fans, immediately started demanding we "get the ball forward", "get forward" and generally panicked. Sadly, the players seemed to listen and the gap between the headless checkens running upfield and the defence was too large, we lost shape, we wer Sh*t.

We have a a role to help the team .. we don't. The fans that are vocal and really, really not helping .. its up to them, but it makes us worse. Concentrating on the bad things, rather than seeing the good parts is never going to help a developing team. We will never maximise our points at WHL until we get decent support and calmness. Sure the players have to do it themselves, but they will get more points if we help.

My worry (other than the fans getting Pochetino the sack) is the lack of balance in the squad to fit Pochetino's style ..

1. We need players to play in the 3 behind a striker ... after the first choice what do we have? "Headless chicken" Townsend, right winger Lennon, Exhausted Paulinho? [Oh, why did Sigurdson go when he would suit this system better as an option than the players we kept]
2. Full-backs provide our width and need to be quick .. oh how we need Walker back .. perhaps we are just unlucky with Naughton also out
3. Mason is playing in the key role .. fundamental to the system .. he's doing ok .. but there is NO alternative .. and he's played 4 PL games!!!
4. The centre forward has to be able to link play when players are close to him, but also take long balls/hold up play ... Well, we don't trust Soldadowith long balls and please, watch Kane .. he is slow at running, slow to decide what to do and not very strong. Good finisher, but a slow JD

So, we have to be patient .. we have to let a manager build a squad that fits and that takes years (sadly Levy didn't realise how different 4-2-3-1 for Poch is from 4-3-3 under AVB)

COYS

Disagree with your Kane and Mason comments.

In regards to Squad I think we need to:

- Bring in a wide forward that has pace, skill, can cross and get in behind a defence and finish (Lacazette, Kono or Rodriguez) to replace Lennon.

- Get a Striker that can link play, is strong, aggressive and has pace (Jackson Martinez, Bony or Mitrovic) to replace Ade

- Replace Capoue* with a CM that can defend and play the ball forward quickly (Clasie).

- Replace Dembele with a player that can pass the ball well and has good vision (as well as have good stamina and be hard working.

- Sell Paulinho and recall Pritchard.

-Sell Kaboul & Chiriches and bring in the best, most reliable, most influential and experienced CB we can get.

In the meantime, I think Fazio needs to start with Verts, Stambouli in for Capoue and Soldado in for Ade.

*I know Capoue has looked good this season and that will be an unpopular opinion on here but for me he doesn't offer enough defensively to play with Mason or Dembele replacement and doesn't offer enough in attack to play with Stambouli.

 

[mrlilywhite]

You can talk all day about how negative the fans are, but until you give them reason to be positive, then it will always be the same. It's a sign of a mentally weak team if you can't raise your game at home, and qpr aside, we have not been able to perform against teams that we should be putting to the sword. The fans have a complete right to be negative if we can't beat teams like West Brom or a very poor Newcastle side at home. Last time away against City, we were giving support, and most would say that even after getting turnt over 4-1, the fans respected what they saw as a good effort. We are in disarray at the moment, and the fans feel that, their question is, do the players feel it and try to respond? We will always be fickle, but there are reasons for this and those reasons are beyond fans control, so that will spill out in frustration....As it is now!

 

[EdmontonJohn]

The idea that 11 professional footballers 'listened to the crowd' and that was why we lost is laughable. They should be good enough at the game and the manager should have enough control over how the team plays to play exactly how they want to, depending on the opposition. If the crowd are demanding the ball go forwards quickly but the manager wants to build up slowly, then the players should be listening to the bloody manager and doing what he says.

And the stuff about Kane is utter garbage, it really is. "A slow JD". Seriously what the fuck are you on about. You could not get two more diametrically opposed footballing styles between the two of them. Embarrassing.

Give me strength .. of course they should listen to the manager, but all players are affefcted by crowds ... ask any player who has ever played .. the atmosphere at spurs is bad as soon as something goes wrong

As for Kane .. of course he's not small, and looks different .. the point is that, like JD, so far he has shown a knack of scoring goals .. which is great .. but like JD he has yet to show he can lead the line and act as a lone forward. That's why JD couldn't cope as a lone striker and sadly I worry that Kane can't because his all round play isn't great at all. I am happy for folks to want to give him a try, but my judgement is, like JD he is not good enough to lead a PL team at the level we want to be.

Sigh

 

[EdmontonJohn]

Last time away against City, we were giving support, and most would say that even after getting turnt over 4-1, the fans respected what they saw as a good effort.

Away from home is so diffeent .. spurs away fans are top class, generally exceptional .. sometimes I wonder if we would be better with just our away fans at WHL!!!

 

[idontgetit]

If I see another comment about AVB's "4-3-3" I think my head will explode

 

[Bobbins]

Give me strength .. of course they should listen to the manager, but all players are affefcted by crowds ... ask any player who has ever played .. the atmosphere at spurs is bad as soon as something goes wrong

As for Kane .. of course he's not small, and looks different .. the point is that, like JD, so far he has shown a knack of scoring goals .. which is great .. but like JD he has yet to show he can lead the line and act as a lone forward. That's why JD couldn't cope as a lone striker and sadly I worry that Kane can't because his all round play isn't great at all. I am happy for folks to want to give him a try, but my judgement is, like JD he is not good enough to lead a PL team at the level we want to be.

Sigh

The atmosphere at the Lane is what it is and the players are going to have to learn to deal with it, because it's not going to get any better until they do, and until they show some fucking bollocks and look like they give a flying fuck. It should still have little to no bearing on their performance. They need to grow up and ignore it if a few boos and cries of frustration are going to mean they lose to the worst team in the league every week.

Kane has been (correctly) regularly compared to Sheringham in his playing style and preferred position. Was he similar to JD too? A striker doesn't have to lead any lines to be good, and it doesn't make them similar to Defoe, either. Defoe's got more in common with Leroy Lita than he has Teddy Sheringham. No-one is saying Kane should be the automatic first choice and we don't need anyone else either, so I don't even understand why you're questioning a 20 year old boy's ability to lead the line for a top PL team, when it's not what anyone's asked him to do, it's not where or how he plays, and we all want a new striker as well.

 

[JerryGarcia]

Can't blame the fans for todays result but at around 80mins we could have really done with making some noise. Levy needs to drop the ticket prices or something, anything to liven up the atmoshpere would help. Not that there's a real chance of Levy dropping prices but that's the kind of thing that would get him some good will.

 

[EdmontonJohn]

JerryG, you are right .. we can't blame the fans .. it is the players .. but we can try and help and to do that something to get a more lively atmosphere (like our away fans) would really help .. and make the stadium better to be in!

 

[JerryGarcia]

JerryG, you are right .. we can't blame the fans .. it is the players .. but we can try and help and to do that something to get a more lively atmosphere (like our away fans) would really help .. and make the stadium better to be in!

I totally agree with that part of your post, I don't understand why they don't get the 1882 movement set up for league games! Is the drummer Europa League only too?

 

[EdmontonJohn]

Kane has been (correctly) regularly compared to Sheringham in his playing style

I don't know who compares him .. Sheringham's awareness and linking of play was top draw .. the only real comparison with Kane is his lack of pace!

As you also say .. Kane isn't meant to be automatic first choice, i agree and I like the lad .. but its just we do not have the strikers to fit Pcoh's system .. that's my point .. we do not have a squad that fits and that is my worry ... and that was my point

 

[Bobbins]

I don't know who compares him .. Sheringham's awareness and linking of play was top draw .. the only real comparison with Kane is his lack of pace!

As you also say .. Kane isn't meant to be automatic first choice, i agree and I like the lad .. but its just we do not have the strikers to fit Pcoh's system .. that's my point .. we do not have a squad that fits and that is my worry ... and that was my point

Clive Tyldsley mentioned on Thursday night just how many people at the club and at England u-21 level have compared him to Sheringham. It's also happened on here, a lot.

He has the same footballing intelligence, the same head for finding space, the same ability in the air, the same ability to drop off the lead striker and play in the areas around the D.

If you can't see the comparison the only assumption must be that you never actually saw Teddy play.

 

[EdmontonJohn]

If you can't see the comparison the only assumption must be that you never actually saw Teddy play.

Well, i did, just about every home game he played .. and maybe folks watching Kane in U21/reserves see it .. but in all the home games Kane has played for the first team he has shown nothing like Sheringham ....

He'll probably get some games, he won't do well and you'll be slating him .. whatever .. its all rather missing the point of my original post .. and showing why too many spurs fans just keep looking for the next new toy in hope of some miracle ..