New Stadium Details And Discussions

[fridgemagnet]

What specifically are they doing? Surely they can't be changing the structure to increase the size of the concourses?!

I'm not 100 percent sure, it's mostly things that were scheduled for the off season anyway. I think it is possibly adding food outlet/s (not kitchens) maybe extra signage towards food outlets on the upper levels; the player family area is being extended into the player carpark area (I think that's what I read)
I'm not sure if the Sky lounge (whatever it's currently called) is being fitted out yet or if we won't find out until the naming rights happens (it's space currently reserved for them I believe)

I'll trawl about and see if I can see anything else. People feel happy to correct me if I'm wrong/misinformed.

 

[SirHarryHotspur]

Sorry if asked before but could someone tell me when the hotel and climbing wall etc are due to begin and finish construction?

As far as I know at the moment no definite news on when it is starting. I believe hotel foundations and basement were completed when the Park Lane stadium car park entrance was constructed which also serves as the entrance to the hotel parking.
Think the last time Levy spoke about finishing the project , hotel etc, was that it was going to be "challenging" in other words the cost.

 

[davidmatzdorf]

As far as I know at the moment no definite news on when it is starting. I believe hotel foundations and basement were completed when the Park Lane stadium car park entrance was constructed which also serves as the entrance to the hotel parking.
Think the last time Levy spoke about finishing the project , hotel etc, was that it was going to be "challenging" in other words the cost.

A couple of things: along with the residential development, I don't think the hotel has detailed planning consent, unless it happened when I wasn't looking.

I have always figured that the club would bring in an experienced residential developer and an experienced hotel developer as partners for those phases of the development. If so, they would be expected to cash-flow a lot, if not all of the development costs. In return, they get a share of the profits or, if the hotel developer is also a hotel operator, the hotel.

 

[worcestersauce]

A couple of things: along with the residential development, I don't think the hotel has detailed planning consent, unless it happened when I wasn't looking.

I have always figured that the club would bring in an experienced residential developer and an experienced hotel developer as partners for those phases of the development. If so, they would be expected to cash-flow a lot, if not all of the development costs. In return, they get a share of the profits or, if the hotel developer is also a hotel operator, the hotel.

That's why the non football side is important too, the more conferences and exhibitions held there the more attractive the hotel will look. How about a package that includes a stay at the hotel and a stadium tour?

 

[spursfan77]

As far as I know at the moment no definite news on when it is starting. I believe hotel foundations and basement were completed when the Park Lane stadium car park entrance was constructed which also serves as the entrance to the hotel parking.
Think the last time Levy spoke about finishing the project , hotel etc, was that it was going to be "challenging" in other words the cost.

I think we are partnering up with lendlease again for it. I wait to be corrected but I think it’s phase 3 of the NLDP. They’ll be sorting out the station and walkway first and god knows how that’s going to go with how it is politically in Tottenham. Fortunately the council are committed to it else we probably would be looking at quite a while before the resi development etc begins. Annoying as the indoor dive tank looks awesome.

 

[davidmatzdorf]

That's why the non football side is important too, the more conferences and exhibitions held there the more attractive the hotel will look. How about a package that includes a stay at the hotel and a stadium tour?

I would expect that kind of thing to feature in the discussions when the club tries invites proposals from hotel operators.

 

[worcestersauce]

I would expect that kind of thing to feature in the discussions when the club tries invites proposals from hotel operators.

If it is I want my cut.

 

[davidmatzdorf]

I think we are partnering up with lendlease again for it. I wait to be corrected but I think it’s phase 3 of the NLDP. They’ll be sorting out the station and walkway first and god knows how that’s going to go with how it is politically in Tottenham. Fortunately the council are committed to it else we probably would be looking at quite a while before the resi development etc begins. Annoying as the indoor dive tank looks awesome.

Have you got a source for the Lend Lease information? I didn't think they were especially popular with Haringey Council at present.

Also, Lend Lease are mainly in construction. If the club wants to develop the housing and hotel directly, they might have a partnership directly with a contractor, but if they want to minimise their exposure to borrowing, I think they would be more likely to involve a hotel operator and a residential developer. Then they all might contract with Lend Lease to build it, but that's a separate matter.

That's unless Lend Lease have got more active as residential developers while I wasn't looking...

P.S The station and walkway are not Phase 3 of the NDP. They aren't the NDP at all.

 

[Wine Gum]

A couple of things: along with the residential development, I don't think the hotel has detailed planning consent, unless it happened when I wasn't looking.

I have always figured that the club would bring in an experienced residential developer and an experienced hotel developer as partners for those phases of the development. If so, they would be expected to cash-flow a lot, if not all of the development costs. In return, they get a share of the profits or, if the hotel developer is also a hotel operator, the hotel.

The Hotel does have detailed Planning Consent which was revised so that the upper floors could be used as serviced Appartments rather than short stay rooms.

I have always considered that the hotel is key to the success of the conference facilities.

 

[SirHarryHotspur]

A couple of things: along with the residential development, I don't think the hotel has detailed planning consent, unless it happened when I wasn't looking.

I have always figured that the club would bring in an experienced residential developer and an experienced hotel developer as partners for those phases of the development. If so, they would be expected to cash-flow a lot, if not all of the development costs. In return, they get a share of the profits or, if the hotel developer is also a hotel operator, the hotel.

Maybe wrong but I thought the whole plan including hotel/residential was passed by Haringey planning ref HGY/2015/3000 on 15/04/2016. If it wasn't passed then Spurs are in big trouble as the first thing new Haringey leader Councillor Joseph Ejiofor mentioned when he first visited the stadium (in his red shirt !! ) was the lack of affordable housing in the tower block development so if it went to Haringey planning now very much doubt it would be passed.
Spurs have already been involved in affordable housing but not sure where the funding came from for that https://www.newlon.org.uk/2015/11/25/cannon-road-opening/

PS. Extract on Haringey Site, not sure about the bit which says "submitted at a later date" so possibly there could be problems.

On 16 December 2015 Haringey Council’s Planning Sub-Committee resolved to grant planning permission to Tottenham Hotspur to update their proposals for the stadium and the remainder of the site. This new permission was issued on 15th April 2016 by the Council and consented a larger stadium than that previously approved (61,000 seats rather than 56,250) and approved more flats on the wider site (579 rather than 285). Other changes approved include a new club store and museum described as ‘The Tottenham Experience’, an extreme sports centre, a 180 bedroom hotel, a community medical centre and new public square. (Some details of the various buildings granted planning permission will be submitted by Tottenham Hotspur at a later date as part of the planning process.) The Council also granted Listed Building Consent for the demolition of three locally listed buildings and works to the Grade II Listed Warmington House on the same date.

 

[davidmatzdorf]

Maybe wrong but I thought the whole plan including hotel/residential was passed by Haringey planning ref HGY/2015/3000 on 15/04/2016. If it wasn't passed then Spurs are in big trouble as the first thing new Haringey leader Councillor Joseph Ejiofor mentioned when he first visited the stadium (in his red shirt !! ) was the lack of affordable housing in the tower block development so if it went to Haringey planning now very much doubt it would be passed.
Spurs have already been involved in affordable housing but not sure where the funding came from for that https://www.newlon.org.uk/2015/11/25/cannon-road-opening/

PS. Extract on Haringey Site, not sure about the bit which says "submitted at a later date" so possibly there could be problems.

On 16 December 2015 Haringey Council’s Planning Sub-Committee resolved to grant planning permission to Tottenham Hotspur to update their proposals for the stadium and the remainder of the site. This new permission was issued on 15th April 2016 by the Council and consented a larger stadium than that previously approved (61,000 seats rather than 56,250) and approved more flats on the wider site (579 rather than 285). Other changes approved include a new club store and museum described as ‘The Tottenham Experience’, an extreme sports centre, a 180 bedroom hotel, a community medical centre and new public square. (Some details of the various buildings granted planning permission will be submitted by Tottenham Hotspur at a later date as part of the planning process.) The Council also granted Listed Building Consent for the demolition of three locally listed buildings and works to the Grade II Listed Warmington House on the same date.

I thought the 15/04/2016 consent was amended detailed consent for Phases1 & 2 and amended outline consent for Phase 3. I'd have to read the decision notice to be sure.

 

[SirHarryHotspur]

Assuming Spurs get the flats built they will be asking serious money for them , here's a current asking price for a new build flat at Tottenham Hale, surprised me ..https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-60988209.html

 

[coys200]

Should definitely be some decent money in the 585 flats to be built. Could be £300-400m minus building costs.

 

[C0YS]

Assuming Spurs get the flats built they will be asking serious money for them , here's a current asking price for a new build flat at Tottenham Hale, surprised me ..https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-60988209.html

That surprised you? Its pretty cheap for London. Just the market is crazyyyy

 

[C0YS]

Assuming Spurs get the flats built they will be asking serious money for them , here's a current asking price for a new build flat at Tottenham Hale, surprised me ..https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-60988209.html

The average price for a place. Tottenham is about £400k, cheap for londkn. New builds will cos more and the example you showed is a pretty good property so will be even more!

 

[Wine Gum]

I thought the 15/04/2016 consent was amended detailed consent for Phases1 & 2 and amended outline consent for Phase 3. I'd have to read the decision notice to be sure.

HGY/2015/3000 - Proposed demolition and comprehensive phased redevelopment
for stadium (Class D2) with hotel (Class C1), Tottenham Experience (sui generis),
sports centre (Class D2); community (Class D1) and / or offices (Class B1); housing
(Class C3); and health centre (Class D1); together with associated facilities including
the construction of new and altered roads, footways; public and private open
spaces; landscaping and related works. Details of "appearance" and "landscape"
are reserved in relation to the residential buildings and associated community and /
or office building. Details of "appearance" and "scale" are reserved in relation to the
sports centre building. Details of "appearance" are reserved in relation to the health
centre building. Proposal includes the demolition of 3 locally listed buildings and
includes works to a Grade II Listed building for which a separate Listed Building
application has been submitted (Ref: HGY/2015/3001). The proposal is EIA
development. Application Granted 15th April 2016.

Amendment to Hotel:

Non-material amendment following a grant of planning permission HGY/2015/3000: proposed removal of 90 day restriction (Condition D16) to allow operation of hotel serviced apartments as C3, rather than C1 Use Class. Consequential amendments to Conditions A4, A7 and D1.

http://www.planningservices.haringey.gov.uk/portal/servlets/ApplicationSearchServlet?PKID=308860

There is a document on the Portal with the estimated hotel construction costs.

 

[davidmatzdorf]

HGY/2015/3000 - Proposed demolition and comprehensive phased redevelopment
for stadium (Class D2) with hotel (Class C1), Tottenham Experience (sui generis),
sports centre (Class D2); community (Class D1) and / or offices (Class B1); housing
(Class C3); and health centre (Class D1); together with associated facilities including
the construction of new and altered roads, footways; public and private open
spaces; landscaping and related works. Details of "appearance" and "landscape"
are reserved in relation to the residential buildings and associated community and /
or office building. Details of "appearance" and "scale" are reserved in relation to the
sports centre building. Details of "appearance" are reserved in relation to the health
centre building. Proposal includes the demolition of 3 locally listed buildings and
includes works to a Grade II Listed building for which a separate Listed Building
application has been submitted (Ref: HGY/2015/3001). The proposal is EIA
development. Application Granted 15th April 2016.

Amendment to Hotel:

Non-material amendment following a grant of planning permission HGY/2015/3000: proposed removal of 90 day restriction (Condition D16) to allow operation of hotel serviced apartments as C3, rather than C1 Use Class. Consequential amendments to Conditions A4, A7 and D1.

http://www.planningservices.haringey.gov.uk/portal/servlets/ApplicationSearchServlet?PKID=308860

There is a document on the Portal with the estimated hotel construction costs.

Thanks for extracting that from Haringey's grumpy planning search facility.

Details of "appearance" and "landscape" are reserved in relation to the residential buildings and associated community and /
or office building. Details of "appearance" and "scale" are reserved in relation to the sports centre building. Details of "appearance" are reserved in relation to the health centre building.

Those are the bits that remain "outline", i.e., there are reserved matters that require a further submission. "Outline" isn't quite the same thing as "reserved matters", but they're close enough.

I don't see any reserved matters that refer to the hotel, so I guess that's been approved in detail.

 

[coys200]

HGY/2015/3000 - Proposed demolition and comprehensive phased redevelopment
for stadium (Class D2) with hotel (Class C1), Tottenham Experience (sui generis),
sports centre (Class D2); community (Class D1) and / or offices (Class B1); housing
(Class C3); and health centre (Class D1); together with associated facilities including
the construction of new and altered roads, footways; public and private open
spaces; landscaping and related works. Details of "appearance" and "landscape"
are reserved in relation to the residential buildings and associated community and /
or office building. Details of "appearance" and "scale" are reserved in relation to the
sports centre building. Details of "appearance" are reserved in relation to the health
centre building. Proposal includes the demolition of 3 locally listed buildings and
includes works to a Grade II Listed building for which a separate Listed Building
application has been submitted (Ref: HGY/2015/3001). The proposal is EIA
development. Application Granted 15th April 2016.

Amendment to Hotel:

Non-material amendment following a grant of planning permission HGY/2015/3000: proposed removal of 90 day restriction (Condition D16) to allow operation of hotel serviced apartments as C3, rather than C1 Use Class. Consequential amendments to Conditions A4, A7 and D1.

http://www.planningservices.haringey.gov.uk/portal/servlets/ApplicationSearchServlet?PKID=308860

There is a document on the Portal with the estimated hotel construction costs.

Not sure if you can knock the basement cost off that as it’s already been built in the stadium cost. Anyway even if you can it shows there isn’t a great deal of profit in the hotel initially if any. It seems much more like a PR/vanity part of the project. But what those figures do show is roughly how much the 585 flats may cost. If the hotel build is roughly £50m without basement. There’s 4 towers for the flats of similar size. So maybe at a guess the overall construction of the flats maybe £150m. Should leave a very healthy profit.

 

[therhinospeaks]

Assuming Spurs get the flats built they will be asking serious money for them , here's a current asking price for a new build flat at Tottenham Hale, surprised me ..https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-60988209.html

Lots more developments been approved in Tottenham Hale towards the stadium which will be in similar ball park.

 

[SirHarryHotspur]

Lots more developments been approved in Tottenham Hale towards the stadium which will be in similar ball park.

Assume these developments were passed by the previous Labour administration at haringey Council as you can hardly call an asking price of £675,000 as affordable housing . Don't know what it's like now but under the old mortgage lending guidelines it was 5 times salary , that means an income of in excess of £100,000 per year to get anywhere near borrowing the amount to buy these places. Be just Spurs luck to have a property crash while we are building the flats.