New Stadium Details And Discussions

[chrissivad]

Am I cynical in thinking the bottom of that statement is a bit sinister? Rather than distancing themselves from the two protests they've effectively advertised them. They also hope they remain peaceful, which should go without saying and is conspicuous by its inclusion.

I have to agree, would be interesting to know if they told Levy that they would call off their protest.

Because all they are doing is taking their name away from it and pushing people to the other protests.

 

[sherbornespurs]

Wasn't it alluded to on another thread that some of them had 'other business' to attend to in Luton this weekend?

Apologies in advance if I'm mistaken, but I'm sure I read it somewhere on here in connection to the proposed demo prior to the Bolton game.

 

[chrissivad]

details on the meeting between WeAreN17 and Levy

http://www.docshare.com/doc/436644/We-Are-N17-Statement-02-11

 

[worcestersauce]

I wonder what the statement meant by :- We feel that we have now contacted the real deal breakers who will be making the final decision.

Did it mean that by the protest they've caught peoples attention or have they contacted them directly? If so have they explained that they are a minority of Spurs supporters or have they lied about that? Can't see that the deal breakers would act on the request of a minority so it seems strange.

 

[Hoowl]

It seems wearen17 still suspect some chicanery regarding the viability of the NDP.

 

[bigturnip]

Full Statement from WeAreN17 regarding their meeting with THFC:

We Are N17 – Notes following meeting with THFC and General Statement regarding We Are N17​

Meeting with Daniel Levy and Donna Cullen of THFC.

On Thursday (3rd February) 2 members of We Are N17 met with Daniel Levy (DL) and Donna Cullen (DC); the following bullet points represent the key issues which were raised; the view of the club and either the comparative view, or response from We Are N17.

• DL indicated that he believed the views of We Are N17 and our overall goal of ensuring the club will not move to Stratford was detrimental to future of the football club.

We Are N17 believe that a move to Stratford would be detrimental in a different way. Whilst the financial considerations relating to building a new stadium may favour a move, we suggested that this should not be ‘at any cost’. DL and DC agreed and said that they’d stay in Tottenham if it were possible but at this time it is not viable to do so. We suggested that staying in Tottenham would not ‘kill’ the club and that other clubs accept the circumstances of their locality. DC mentioned that THFC would remain a London club and we asked at what point within London do you draw the line and where is too far to move; it was said that we are Tottenham Hotspur, not London Hotspur.

• It was agreed that neither party expects the club to have to change its name, regardless of a move.

• The idea of We Are N17’s involvement in any future ‘breakaway’ club was also mentioned and dismissed.

• DL said that he is not interested in selling the club following a move and that he does not believe AEG are interested in buying the club. He also said that he’d be more inclined to sell if the club does not move.

• DL promised a full consultation would be conducted with the fans (We Are N17 requested that this be conducted or at least discussed with an independent body to ensure that it is conducted fairly) and that the consultation can and will be carried out if the club becomes preferred bidder and before any bond/deposit becomes payable to secure the site. DC said that the club’s decision would be influenced by such a consultation.

• DL said that the Northumberland Development Project (NDP) is no longer viable. He said that it had to be retained as an option, however, it has not been viable (despite being continued with) for some time.

We Are N17’s reaction to this news was rather incredulous. We asked at what stage this had been determined and DC responded that it was an accumulation of factors, which began at the point English Heritage made their ‘demands’ and ended with the Section 106 agreement. We appreciated that costs had been added, but suggested that this must have been expected. Furthermore, we expressed surprise that the project had been continued with despite the knowledge it was not viable, and that the fans had been led to believe that it was a viable proposition until recently. DL said the club needed to retain ‘the option’ to develop in Tottenham. We Are N17 simply do not understand this view and despite labouring the point a little in the meeting could not really come to a conclusion. Simply, we do not believe it is an option if it is not viable and cannot understand how it can be suggested otherwise. DL also said that had the club not bid for Stratford they would still be looking for other options. We simply find that a little hard to believe and at this stage think that this is a line that suits the club in a similar way that they have suggested calling the NDP viable was a line that suited the club at that time. They also said, fairly, that having spent a substantial amount of time and money on the project (NDP); that it had to be seen through to conclusion (full planning approval).

• It was raised that we believed the club’s communications with fans to be misleading.

The club did not really argue this point and DC said ‘it suited their purpose’ when asked about the content of the statements released thus far.

• DL suggested that although Haringey had done little wrong, that they could have offered more help during the process for planning the NDP. He also said that EH made it clear they would call in the planning application (the first application) were it not amended; which would have been costly, particularly in terms of time.

• DL was also exasperated at the suggestion the club had not itself searched for public funding towards the NDP, although he did not offer any examples of having done so.

• DL said that his comments regarding moving out of Tottenham in order to expand was not simply in order to maintain a relationship with AEG (who are only interested in the Olympic site). He also said that the AEG involvement was not primarily financial and that their contribution was related to the legacy aspect; he suggested that the club would have been just as able to move to Stratford without AEG’s involvement.

• DL said (despite his recent interview) that there is no other site in mind nor available to move to other that Stratford.

• DC described Stratford as an option we had to allow the club to keep open although DL conceded that it was definitely the club’s first choice and had been for some time (despite statements from the club indicating otherwise).

• DL and DC expressed dismay that there were fans that would be willing to remain at White Hart Lane instead of moving to Stratford. They did not appear to understand the argument that some would prefer to stay than simply move to chase success. It was suggested by We Are N17 that moving to achieve better revenues did not necessarily equate to winning trophies. The number of fans who hold this view was largely dismissed by the club as a minority, although we suggested that many of the fans who did follow were being pulled by the club to Stratford, rather than pushing the club there.

DC asked that we try not to be guided by emotion and DL said that was an argument they couldn’t win. We suggest that emotion is such a strong factor in supporting a football club that it could not be dismissed; certainly not without a fact based argument on the merits of moving or staying. DL and DC raised the new financial fair play rules and mentioned that Tottenham were only 1 of 2 clubs (in their opinion) in the Premier League who currently meet these rules, were they to be introduced tomorrow. A conversation was had over the fans impression of such rules and their real life application when a big club (Manchester United, Chelsea Real Madrid etc) may be threatened with expulsion from Europe, on which the club refused to be drawn into a debate and suggested they would wait and see how they are applied. It was suggested, regardless, that generating increased revenue would be vital. We Are N17 believe the club also have one of the highest levels of gate receipts in the league despite stadium size and that if these regulations did indeed temper the buying power of clubs such as Man City, there is less of a gap to close; conversely if it did not work in that manner, we believe that moving stadium alone would not come close to bridging the financial divide.

• Finally it was mentioned by We Are N17 that THFC have long been one of the highest spenders in the Premier League (until this season) and that over the period the club’s success has not been representative of that outlay.

We recognised that Daniel Levy has done a good job and that, for example, learning from past mistakes and employing a manager such as Harry Redknapp is representative of that. We discussed our belief that given our past outlay and the success of clubs like Manchester United and Arsenal, it is a good manager and stable management that delivers success and that has now been achieved with the appointment of Harry Redknapp. DL asked us how he was expected to tell his manager that there is no money to spend and that in order to keep a manager such as Harry, we need to generate the money to spend on the players he wants. This was accepted, but it was also mentioned that he could leave regardless (England) and that money alone will not build (or to challenge DL’s notion, save) the club.

• We would like to take this opportunity to thank Daniel Levy and Donna Cullen again for their time and what was a very understanding discussion from both parties. We left in no doubt that Daniel Levy is passionate about the club and the move to Stratford, despite our differing views on the merits of such a move.

General Update​

Background to We Are N17

It is important to consider the stance and views of We Are N17, independently of any meeting with the club and the following represents our current position: -

A substantial amount of time has passed since Tottenham Hotspur FC (THFC) initially announced that they had made an ‘expression of wish’ regarding taking over the Olympic Stadium or the site there-of. In a little over 3 months the media have covered the issue in depth and a variety of journalists, football players, club officials and other sports personalities have had their say on the issue. We Are N17 continue to believe that the main groups who will be affected are the supporters of Tottenham Hotspur, West Ham United, Leyton Orient and of UK Athletics and, regardless of what so many individuals say, each of these groups need to be heard and they need to be provided better information regarding the decision making process. Whilst we do not claim to be experts in any given field other than supporting our football club; the time we have spent and individuals we have had the opportunity to meet has helped to offer additional perspective on each of the issues being discussed. We will continue to try and disseminate information regarding the process where possible.

We Are N17 have actively researched the issues involved in this move and have looked to try and dispel many of the myths and assumptions which have been allowed to gather around this issue. Tottenham Hotspur have recently been forced to concede that the suggestions they made over the conduct of Haringey Council in this process were unfounded. We believe mis-information and sensationalism over costs have also contributed to the general confusion over this issue.

As the decision regarding the preferred bidder has once again been delayed and we are aware that Spurs’ fans in particular are looking for both some kind of resolution and some kind of action; We Are N17 would like to take this opportunity to outline where we stand and our plans at the present time.

Key Issues

• We do not believe that a move to Stratford or site of the Olympic Stadium would be in the best interests of THFC.

It is clear that the ‘interests of THFC’ is a subjective issue and dependent on whether you choose to place the commercial success of the club ahead of the sentimental reasons for supporting a football club. We accept that it is likely a move would be in the commercial best interests of the club, but would always argue that many fans did not choose to, nor have they remained supporters of THFC based on the ability of the club to generate money. Football clubs are expected to achieve success based upon their circumstance; a club based in a poor area with no history of success has to accept that it will be far more challenging to succeed. It can be argued that Manchester United and Liverpool are not based near the corporate and financial hot-spots like Canary Wharf and yet they have achieved vast success; Arsenal too have not felt the need to return south. Conversely, despite being the 3rd largest spenders in the Premier League era prior to this season, our success has not been comparable.

• We believe that Tottenham Hotspur, through their communications, have been misleading and have made public statements intentionally lacking factual information and instead using suggestive language in an effort to influence the opinion of fans; using the closed nature of the bidding process for the Olympic Stadium as a smokescreen.

This is backed by the fact that Spurs initially were keen to point out that no ‘bid’ had been made for the Olympic Stadium. This process has now progressed to the point that Daniel Levy has chosen to inform us that the Northumberland development Project (NPD) is no-longer viable. During this time, THFC persistently advised that no consultation was possible as there was not yet two genuine options; they also suggested that the NPD was viable until recently and intentionally allowed fans to believe that the Olympic Stadium was a second choice or back-up option. Daniel Levy has since claimed to have taken fan polls regarding a move, although we have yet to speak to a fan involved in such a poll, nor have the results of such a survey been published.

Group Update & Plans

In terms of our plans, we do not intend to protest at the Bolton match, this weekend and as ever we do not want to influence the team on the pitch.

One of the many reasons we are reserved about protesting outside the club, or regarding any protests directed at the club’s board is that we believe that this is effectively a lost cause, with the decision of the board both made and unlikely to be changed. The recent Sky Sports News interview suggested this, and our recent meeting confirmed what we believed.

For this reason once we know when the Preferred Bidder announcement is likely to take place, if it does not go as we hope, we plan to organise a protest outside city hall, which is focused on the decision makers themselves. This may well be coupled with protests within the ground, such as a sit in protest after a game, if the supporters of this group indicate that they are in favour of taking such action and would choose to participate.

We are keen to hear from all fans, particularly those who have signed the petition, regarding your opinion on how best to proceed as well as from those who do not support the group, regarding your thoughts on the potential move.

Links:

http://www.wearen17.co.uk
http://www.petitiononline.co.uk/petition/say-no-to-stratford-hotspur/434
http://twitter.com/wearen17
http://twitter.com/wearen17
Contact:

For fan, press and all other enquiries please email We Are N17: [email protected]

 

[Kendall]

Absolutely nothing of note comes out of that. Waste of time.

 

[DFF]

Absolutely nothing of note comes out of that. Waste of time.

It beggars belief that Levy even grants these dimwits the time of day.

 

[Samson]

We're not going to win the OS, are we?

I think the West Ham bid is either going to be a financial disaster or they will overtake us pretty swiftly. I really hope it's the former. And I really hope Levy is lying about the NDP.

 

[worcestersauce]

We're not going to win the OS, are we?

I think the West Ham bid is either going to be a financial disaster or they will overtake us pretty swiftly. I really hope it's the former. And I really hope Levy is lying about the NDP.

Hope for the former expect the latter.

 

[StartingPrice]

I am neither in favour of the OS, nor of taking a hardline attitude. There are a few things DL says that I find quite difficult to swallow - largely regarding the ongoing viability or otherwise, ofthe NDP. At the same time, I find N_17, and those who think like them to be niave and, dare I say it, driven by emotion to the point of absolute blindness - particularly in regard to finance, success, team building and the necessity of a considerably larger stadium.

This hasn't really cleared any suspicion away formthe former, or painted a more reasonable facade on the latter, I am afraid. For whom, I wish they would give serious consideration to the fact that if the Spammers get the OS and it is a success, we would become the 4th team in London - a mere cipher (something like MilwallEek); and consider the many thousands of fans on the season - ticket waiting list who don't have the option of saying "I have my season ticket...I don't care if staying in Tottenham means no increased capacity".

 

[ethanedwards]

Wasn't it alluded to on another thread that some of them had 'other business' to attend to in Luton this weekend?

Apologies in advance if I'm mistaken, but I'm sure I read it somewhere on here in connection to the proposed demo prior to the Bolton game.

You are not mistaken, I think when the subject was raised, it was a can of worms nobody wanted to open.

 

[SpurSince57]

Wasn't it alluded to on another thread that some of them had 'other business' to attend to in Luton this weekend?

Apologies in advance if I'm mistaken, but I'm sure I read it somewhere on here in connection to the proposed demo prior to the Bolton game.

You mean, you can be a Spurs supporter and an Islamic Fundy Mentalist? Weird, but stranger things happen at sea, I guess.

 

[MattyP]

I was walking to the Lane today, soaking up the walk from Seven Sisters as I don't know how many more years I'll be doing it and it suddenly dawned on me.

The NDP will never happen.

Levy's comments that it is financially not viable can only have the effect of increasing any interest rate that any bank would charge us on any loan we may wish to take in order to finance the project, should it go ahead.

I'm not prepared to give up on it yet, but those comments can only have the effect to make it even more expensive.

 

[bigturnip]

I am neither in favour of the OS, nor of taking a hardline attitude. There are a few things DL says that I find quite difficult to swallow - largely regarding the ongoing viability or otherwise, ofthe NDP. At the same time, I find N_17, and those who think like them to be niave and, dare I say it, driven by emotion to the point of absolute blindness - particularly in regard to finance, success, team building and the necessity of a considerably larger stadium.

This hasn't really cleared any suspicion away formthe former, or painted a more reasonable facade on the latter, I am afraid. For whom, I wish they would give serious consideration to the fact that if the Spammers get the OS and it is a success, we would become the 4th team in London - a mere cipher (something like MilwallEek); and consider the many thousands of fans on the season - ticket waiting list who don't have the option of saying "I have my season ticket...I don't care if staying in Tottenham means no increased capacity".

I'm on the season ticket waiting list and I do say "I don't care if staying in Tottenham means no increased capacity"

 

[bigturnip]

I was walking to the Lane today, soaking up the walk from Seven Sisters as I don't know how many more years I'll be doing it and it suddenly dawned on me.

The NDP will never happen.

Levy's comments that it is financially not viable can only have the effect of increasing any interest rate that any bank would charge us on any loan we may wish to take in order to finance the project, should it go ahead.

I'm not prepared to give up on it yet, but those comments can only have the effect to make it even more expensive.

Quite right, whether the NDP was viable or not, it probably isn't now given that Levy has spent the last few weeks talking it down. Who is going to buy naming rights for a stadium that the chairman of the club thinks won't work and who is going to lend money to the project?

Levy's position is completely untenable as chairman if he loses the OS bid, he has basically backed the club into the corner of the OS or nothing. For me nothing would give me greater pleasure than waving him goodbye right now, he is using our club as a pawn in one of his financial games.

 

[DFF]

Quite right, whether the NDP was viable or not, it probably isn't now given that Levy has spent the last few weeks talking it down. Who is going to buy naming rights for a stadium that the chairman of the club thinks won't work and who is going to lend money to the project?

Levy's position is completely untenable as chairman if he loses the OS bid, he has basically backed the club into the corner of the OS or nothing. For me nothing would give me greater pleasure than waving him goodbye right now, he is using our club as a pawn in one of his financial games.

:rofl:

You are a complete and utter joke. You're doing the N17'ers no favours whatsoever. Stop living up to your name.

 

[bigturnip]

:rofl:

You are a complete and utter joke. You're doing the N17'ers no favours whatsoever. Stop living up to your name.

But if Levy doesn't win his bid for the OS, he will have spent £60m-70m on the NDP, he will have single handedly talked the NDP out of being an option and he will have failed in acquiring a larger stadium, from a purely business perspective do you honestly believe he would be able to continue as chairman?

The way I see it he currently has all his eggs in one basket, he's taking one massive gamble and praying it pays off and the problem I have with that is what he is gambling with is not just another business, he is gambling with the future of one of the most important things in my life, my football club.

I sincerely hope he loses his gamble as it means it would secure the future of Tottenham Hotspur, at least until there's another harebrained idea of trying to destroy the club by taking it away from it's home.

Regardless of what side of the Stratford debate you are on, surely you can agree that Levy has completely dismissed the idea of the NDP in favour of the OS and that he is now putting everything behind it. In my opinion it's a decision that he will live or die by (not literally, but as chairman).

 

[DFF]

But if Levy doesn't win his bid for the OS, he will have spent £60m-70m on the NDP, he will have single handedly talked the NDP out of being an option and he will have failed in acquiring a larger stadium, from a purely business perspective do you honestly believe he would be able to continue as chairman?

The way I see it he currently has all his eggs in one basket, he's taking one massive gamble and praying it pays off and the problem I have with that is what he is gambling with is not just another business, he is gambling with the future of one of the most important things in my life, my football club.

I sincerely hope he loses his gamble as it means it would secure the future of Tottenham Hotspur, at least until there's another harebrained idea of trying to destroy the club by taking it away from it's home.

Regardless of what side of the Stratford debate you are on, surely you can agree that Levy has completely dismissed the idea of the NDP in favour of the OS and that he is now putting everything behind it. In my opinion it's a decision that he will live or die by (not literally, but as chairman).

Quite a bit of the cost is land that he can sell - albeit at a much reduced price if we move - that will be by far and away offset by the savings and increased commercial revenues (ooh blasphemy) if we move away.

"I sincerely hope he loses his gamble as it means it would secure the future of Tottenham Hotspur"

No, it would secure the future of Haringey. You're confusing the two. It would in all likelihood condemn THFC, you know, the football club, to another couple of decades of mediocrity or worse. I understand if you live in the area, like SS57, but otherwise, you lot are basically Little Tottenhamers.

 

[sloth]

Quite right, whether the NDP was viable or not, it probably isn't now given that Levy has spent the last few weeks talking it down. Who is going to buy naming rights for a stadium that the chairman of the club thinks won't work and who is going to lend money to the project?

Levy's position is completely untenable as chairman if he loses the OS bid, he has basically backed the club into the corner of the OS or nothing. For me nothing would give me greater pleasure than waving him goodbye right now, he is using our club as a pawn in one of his financial games.

Stop being such a twonk mate.

The only reason there's any prospect at all of the NDP is because of Levy's financial wizardry in solving the conundrum of how to run a Premier League club without a sugar daddy, from a mid-table base of no CL and be profitable enough to consider borrowing £400m and it not be utterly crazy and still be knocking on the door of the top echelons of the club game.

The only person, imo, who's had a greater impact on his club in the last two decades is Arsene Wenger and he was starting from a place of far more potential than Levy was.

On the NDP itself. It isn't viable for a club like Spurs, owned by ENIC, without a sugar daddy, to borrow £450m for a stadium development in Tottenham. The OS is viable for all the reasons you've fought tooth and nail to deny since day one (in that at least you've been shown to be totally incorrect).

However it is simply wrong to imagine that because it is unviable for ENIC it was wrong to go down the path. If we hadn't we wouldn't have planning permission etc. As it is we're a club with a large waiting list, a too small stadium, but plans and planning permission to build a new one. If we don't get the OS, Levy's goal will be to sell the club to someone who can afford the NDP as a vanity project. He's far more likely to do so as things stand than he was previously.

The really depressing thing for me - contrary to what most think I'm sure - is that selling out to nasty billionaire torturer or murderer would really be the death of the club. I know fans don't care where the money comes from, but I do.

I also know that most think there's no difference between the way Utd or Arse have done it and the way Chelsea or City have, but I do. I think that the fans are completely irrelevant to City and Chelsea, they have nothing to do with the success of the club, they're just a bunch of gurning loons leering on from the side-lines. Their club has been stolen from under them and been turned into like nothing so much as the latest must have accessory in the Blillionaire play-boy's club.

That's the terminal event our club's soul. We'll go on supporting it, but somewhere down the track we'll all of us who remember the club before the billionaire era will realise the club we used to love is no more.