New Stadium Details And Discussions

[davidmatzdorf]

Not quite true though as when the council consulted the residents that would have to move they gave them various options and the residents voted unanimously for the option that razed the whole estate to the ground. It would seem that there is no "tough shit" as they are getting what they want.
Not sure if his source was the same guy but there was a rabble rouser making all sors of claims and protests claiming the community would suffer but that vote pretty much took the wind out of his sails

That's what happened. But there are always 'outraged of N17' types who won't accept that their personal circumstances have to take second place to the overall needs of a community. As I said, they confuse their personal outrage with a valid argument against change.

Incidentally, the residents didn't vote 'unanimously', which would be a 100% vote in favour. There was a convincing majority in favour of the ambitious redevelopment option.

 

[StanSpur]

I understand all that - but did your 40 year London Growth plan forecast a redevelopmenmt of Spurs - and Tottenham ? Did it forecast the dramatic increase in UK population growth froim immigraion in the last 15 years ?

Nobody did. Yes TFL's 40 year plans might have guessed at total population growth - and overall effect on transport - but line by line ? No chance.

Yes it does as it ties in with the government projections and the fact London will grow by the population of Birmingham over the next 15 years or so. We look at the lines in terms of capacity and future demand on a line by line basis - why else do you think we upgrade signalling and fleet? It is to enable higher frequency of service and the ability to shift more and more people. We measure all demand and future - we predict heat displacement as well as asset degredation based on usage etc. Trust me there are a lot of Oxbridge guys working on ensuring the network copes with all growth areas. Unfortunately the Tube is a Victorian invention and thus it is heavily restricted in what we can do to its infrastructure which is why TfL has been expanding over the past 20 years above ground with the DLR and the franchising of the Overground services. This is where the additional growth to the Tottenham area will be serviced through the intro of Overground trains on the West Anglia route, an upgrade in the signalling and therefore the ability to eventually move from 4 to 6 or 8 car trains based on demand in the future. We are planning works to develop seven sisters at the moment and Liverpool Street will get an overhaul in the next few years as the crossrail project ramps up. These interchanges with the overground will give the current and future population of the area a quick and easy route into central London on TfL services. Quite frankly if your concern is simply the residing population then you should also look at areas such as Streatham in the south as they are equally far from a Tube station and growing at a faster rate currently. Should London spend £5-10b extending the Victoria line? Are you willing to have your ticket go up by another 15-20% each year to pay for it? There is a balance that needs to be struck when planning the growth of the transport network and as i said in the case of Tottenham that growth is most effective via overground services.

And in answer to your point about the past, it is not a retrospective so no it isn't looking at the last 15 years (and maybe the investment in growth wasnt a priority back then) it is looking forward based on trends and areas of planned development throughout the city and the outer boroughs such as Croydon (which is in the Mayoral plans due to its enourmous expected growth). TfL have also had a very clear view on the tottenham project for a very long time. We were involved in the World Cup bid team working with Levy and co as the new stadium was part of Englands bid.

 

[worcestersauce]

That's what happened. But there are always 'outraged of N17' types who won't accept that their personal circumstances have to take second place to the overall needs of a community. As I said, they confuse their personal outrage with a valid argument against change.

Incidentally, the residents didn't vote 'unanimously', which would be a 100% vote in favour. There was a convincing majority in favour of the ambitious redevelopment option.

You're right D'm' I must admit I was going to qualify the unanimous with Practically unanimous but either way it was incontestable so I reckon the club can hold its head high.
By the way I'd love a tube extension to Northumberland park but the growth isn't likely to be very high as the other side of the line is nothing but the marshes which won't be built on so I doubt it will come, (that and the fact that SS57 said so).

 

[Spursidol]

Yes it does as it ties in with the government projections and the fact London will grow by the population of Birmingham over the next 15 years or so. We look at the lines in terms of capacity and future demand on a line by line basis - why else do you think we upgrade signalling and fleet? It is to enable higher frequency of service and the ability to shift more and more people. We measure all demand and future - we predict heat displacement as well as asset degredation based on usage etc. Trust me there are a lot of Oxbridge guys working on ensuring the network copes with all growth areas. Unfortunately the Tube is a Victorian invention and thus it is heavily restricted in what we can do to its infrastructure which is why TfL has been expanding over the past 20 years above ground with the DLR and the franchising of the Overground services. This is where the additional growth to the Tottenham area will be serviced through the intro of Overground trains on the West Anglia route, an upgrade in the signalling and therefore the ability to eventually move from 4 to 6 or 8 car trains based on demand in the future. We are planning works to develop seven sisters at the moment and Liverpool Street will get an overhaul in the next few years as the crossrail project ramps up. These interchanges with the overground will give the current and future population of the area a quick and easy route into central London on TfL services. Quite frankly if your concern is simply the residing population then you should also look at areas such as Streatham in the south as they are equally far from a Tube station and growing at a faster rate currently. Should London spend £5-10b extending the Victoria line? Are you willing to have your ticket go up by another 15-20% each year to pay for it? There is a balance that needs to be struck when planning the growth of the transport network and as i said in the case of Tottenham that growth is most effective via overground services.

And in answer to your point about the past, it is not a retrospective so no it isn't looking at the last 15 years (and maybe the investment in growth wasnt a priority back then) it is looking forward based on trends and areas of planned development throughout the city and the outer boroughs such as Croydon (which is in the Mayoral plans due to its enourmous expected growth). TfL have also had a very clear view on the tottenham project for a very long time. We were involved in the World Cup bid team working with Levy and co as the new stadium was part of Englands bid.

You clearly have a lot of knowledge of this area, so thanks for sharing.

My only point is that Harringay have published a strategy that shows a Northumberland Park tube station as a 'maybe' in 2025 after the subject has been 'dead' for 5 or 10 years. Whether that is founded on reality or they hope to win a 'political ' battle with Network Rail, I don't know, but I understand your view that the 'professionals' think that its a pipedream and almost certainly not happening.

 

[SpurSince57]

That's what happened. But there are always 'outraged of N17' types who won't accept that their personal circumstances have to take second place to the overall needs of a community. As I said, they confuse their personal outrage with a valid argument against change.

Incidentally, the residents didn't vote 'unanimously', which would be a 100% vote in favour. There was a convincing majority in favour of the ambitious redevelopment option.

It's ironic (not to mention highly amusing) that whilst several on here have accused Lammy of not doing enough to support the NDP, or even of deliberately obstructing it, groups in Tottenham see him as being in Levy's pocket.

What fuels the Nimbyism is the degree of uncertainty as to the extent of redevelopment between the High Road and WHL station. It seems to be a certainty that the Love Lane flats will go, and not before time, but what of the three tower blocks? Is the entire High Road frontage between Whitehall Street and Moselle Street to go in order to accommodate the grand triumphal way (which, curiously, appears on none of the artists' impressions I've seen)? There has even been a rumour that the Peacock Industrial Estate is earmarked for development.

 

[SpurSince57]

You clearly have a lot of knowledge of this area, so thanks for sharing.

My only point is that Harringay have published a strategy that shows a Northumberland Park tube station as a 'maybe' in 2025 after the subject has been 'dead' for 5 or 10 years. Whether that is founded on reality or they hope to win a 'political ' battle with Network Rail, I don't know, but I understand your view that the 'professionals' think that its a pipedream and almost certainly not happening.

For all but a very small number of people, White Hart Lane, Bruce Grove and Tottenham Hale are more convenient and far better-served than Northumberland Park. To the east you've got industrial units and the VL depot, the North-South route and the Marshes, so no-one's going to be developing there. Quite why Haringey are hanging on to this dead duck I have no idea.

 

[worcestersauce]

Do the tower blocks not come under the whole Love lane redevelopment SS57? My understanding is that from the High road back to the railway line all goes, I would hope the council can start going public promoting the scheme big time no that the CPO is sorted so maybe we'll get some more info soon.

 

[StanSpur]

You clearly have a lot of knowledge of this area, so thanks for sharing.

My only point is that Harringay have published a strategy that shows a Northumberland Park tube station as a 'maybe' in 2025 after the subject has been 'dead' for 5 or 10 years. Whether that is founded on reality or they hope to win a 'political ' battle with Network Rail, I don't know, but I understand your view that the 'professionals' think that its a pipedream and almost certainly not happening.

Happy to share, there isnt a lot i can contribute to this site other than info re the Tube! There are a lot of 'wants' for the Tube and polititians for local council often try to push ideas for votes. Again i'll refer to streatham and the council there has been pushing for a Tube station for years. There were plans for a Bakerloo extension south about 30 years ago that may one day be developed and every so often it gets pitched. Northumberland Park may one day become a Tube station however i can say that it won't in the next 10 years and it will take a lot to change for it to happen after that. If there is a decision to extend the Victoria line for several miles north and run a full branch like the Northern line then a business case could be made but right now its not on the cards.

 

[BehindEnemyLines]

Artists renders of the new Hotspur Way: http://www.haringeyindependent.co.u..._views_on_redevelopment_around_Spurs_stadium/

Details of the 3 options (all of which include the demolition ofe everything south of White Hart Lane between the stadium and the station) :
http://www.haringey.gov.uk/highroadwest

 

[spursfan77]

Artists renders of the new Hotspur Way: http://www.haringeyindependent.co.u..._views_on_redevelopment_around_Spurs_stadium/

Details of the 3 options (all of which include the demolition ofe everything south of White Hart Lane between the stadium and the station) :
http://www.haringey.gov.uk/highroadwest

Cheers. There's been some chat previously that the station walkway has to be completed before the stadium, around the time that document surfaced over a year ago. Not sure if that still applies now though.

 

[dovahkiin]

Sandro666:What interests me is where the Club are regarding the tender process, and whether a Main Contractor has been appointed.
edmonton:No, not started yet.

 

[davidmatzdorf]

Sandro666:What interests me is where the Club are regarding the tender process, and whether a Main Contractor has been appointed.
edmonton:No, not started yet.

They wouldn't appoint a contractor (or go out to tender) before knowing the result of the CPO. A tender is only valid for 3 (sometimes 6) months. If the CPO had been refused, the the entire tendering procedure would instantly have turned into a waste of money.

There is rather a lot of detailed design for the development team to wade through, as well as compliance with many of the planning conditions. It's likely that the development team has been working on this whilst waiting for the CPO decision, but not the formal tendering process.

 

[miamispur]

They wouldn't appoint a contractor (or go out to tender) before knowing the result of the CPO. A tender is only valid for 3 (sometimes 6) months. If the CPO had been refused, the the entire tendering procedure would instantly have turned into a waste of money.

There is rather a lot of detailed design for the development team to wade through, as well as compliance with many of the planning conditions. It's likely that the development team has been working on this whilst waiting for the CPO decision, but not the formal tendering process.

Thank you David for all your information and insight.

Do you have a timeframe when we can expect something concrete (pardon the pun)

I as i'm sure many other fans are, feel like a kid on Christmas Eve

 

[SpurSince57]

Do the tower blocks not come under the whole Love lane redevelopment SS57? My understanding is that from the High road back to the railway line all goes, I would hope the council can start going public promoting the scheme big time no that the CPO is sorted so maybe we'll get some more info soon.

No, I don't think anything's settled yet, and the tower blocks certainly appear in a couple of the artists' impressions. According to this, there seem to be several options on the table.

https://www.london.gov.uk/sites/default/files/302OurTottenhamPlanningPolicyWorkingGroupResponse.pdf

You have to scroll down to Page 11 for the relevant bit. OurTottenham are essentially a Spartist group, but they do have a point.

 

[SpurSince57]

Artists renders of the new Hotspur Way: http://www.haringeyindependent.co.u..._views_on_redevelopment_around_Spurs_stadium/

Details of the 3 options (all of which include the demolition ofe everything south of White Hart Lane between the stadium and the station) :
http://www.haringey.gov.uk/highroadwest

One problem with that artist's impression—the grand triumphal avenue comes to a juddering halt at the High Road. I think it's going to have to be elevated, if it ever comes to fruition.

 

[Spursidol]

No, I don't think anything's settled yet, and the tower blocks certainly appear in a couple of the artists' impressions. According to this, there seem to be several options on the table.

https://www.london.gov.uk/sites/default/files/302OurTottenhamPlanningPolicyWorkingGroupResponse.pdf

You have to scroll down to Page 11 for the relevant bit. OurTottenham are essentially a Spartist group, but they do have a point.

On Page 11 this campaigning group complain that everyone was given 3 options - and as the overall Tottenham plan for mass development was voted for by the majority of residents in Tottenham, which I think this means that all those tower blocks are going.

This group then go on to demand further investment in a number of towerblocks rather than them being demoilished and replaced by other housing - and indeed other sections of the document demand lots of invrestment in the existing businesses and housing ie no/minimal change from the current businesses and housing. So I think this group want to re-run the consultation process as they didn't like the result

In any society, there will be a proprtion opposing change, and this group appear to be all the ones who do not want change

 

[Led's Zeppelin]

There's a fantastic amount of good information in this thread. Thanks everyone.

 

[Achap]

No, I don't think anything's settled yet, and the tower blocks certainly appear in a couple of the artists' impressions. According to this, there seem to be several options on the table.

https://www.london.gov.uk/sites/default/files/302OurTottenhamPlanningPolicyWorkingGroupResponse.pdf

You have to scroll down to Page 11 for the relevant bit. OurTottenham are essentially a Spartist group, but they do have a point.

Thanks for the link. I couldn't help but read the entire document in the voice of Shop Steward Fred Kite (Peter Sellers), in 'I'm All Right, Jack', (one for the oldies!)

This pompous, self-important, self-appointed group are no strangers to dissemination of scaremongering misinformation. Their dire predictions of "thousands" of local residents being forced out of the Borough to the Midlands or the North of England due to 'gentrification', is just alarmist claptrap.

They want to champion the residents of Love Lane (most of whom approved of the Council's Regeneration Plans) against the evil Capitalists who are going to throw them out of their splendid dwellings onto the street to fend for themselves. But the lie is given to their propaganda by this document, which proposes eminently fair treatment for the residents affected:

http://www.haringey.gov.uk/final_qanda_for_secure_council_tenants_9_may.pdf

I almost wish I lived in the block in Love Lane mooted for demolition, in light of the comprehensive arrangements being made for them to relocate locally and comfortably.

 

[BehindEnemyLines]

One problem with that artist's impression—the grand triumphal avenue comes to a juddering halt at the High Road. I think it's going to have to be elevated, if it ever comes to fruition.

Pretty sure the High Road will be closed on match days.

 

[SpurSince57]

Thanks for the link. I couldn't help but read the entire document in the voice of Shop Steward Fred Kite (Peter Sellers), in 'I'm All Right, Jack', (one for the oldies!)

This pompous, self-important, self-appointed group are no strangers to dissemination of scaremongering misinformation. Their dire predictions of "thousands" of local residents being forced out of the Borough to the Midlands or the North of England due to 'gentrification', is just alarmist claptrap.

They want to champion the residents of Love Lane (most of whom approved of the Council's Regeneration Plans) against the evil Capitalists who are going to throw them out of their splendid dwellings onto the street to fend for themselves. But the lie is given to their propaganda by this document, which proposes eminently fair treatment for the residents affected:

http://www.haringey.gov.uk/final_qanda_for_secure_council_tenants_9_may.pdf

I almost wish I lived in the block in Love Lane mooted for demolition, in light of the comprehensive arrangements being made for them to relocate locally and comfortably.

Oh, I agree. They're Socialist 'Worker' types who have attached themselves to community groups and are basically shit-stirring and scaremongering. Perhaps the fact that the Love Lane flats look as if they've been transplanted to Tottenham from Kaliningrad makes them feel nostalgic.

However, there's a degree of uncertainty here that enables them to exploit people's concerns. Does 'Love Lane' refer to that one small block or the three towers as well? I think we established many pages back that the Love Lane residents would be offered flats in the Cannon site development, but clearly the demolition of the towers would affect a great many more people; how, and where, would they be accommodated? We also know that Spurs were let off the affordable housing provision, a point with which OurTottenham will make hay.