New Stadium Details And Discussions

[danielneeds]

And Levy has repeatedly stated that the money for the stadium is 'hedged' and completely seperate from the money for squad development.

Of course Levy is going to say that though, he does need to get the fans to back the project, especially getting it through the planning.

In reality, I still think building it will meaning a tightening of the belt.

 

[Chris12345]

Delievered late, and so over budget that in order to pay for itself it needs to be rented out for American Football matches and other such events just weeks or even days before important matches.

That's got nothing to do with the construction cost... Multiplex (?) had a fixed contract, so in fact, the FA got an unbelievably good deal!

 

[SpunkyBackpack]

In fact i seem to remember that the FA had a clause in it that fined Multiplex a set amount for every week it was late, ended up being a hell of a problem for the contractors, less so the FA.


(please note: i may have made this fact up by accident)

 

[Mr-T]

In fact i seem to remember that the FA had a clause in it that fined Multiplex a set amount for every week it was late, ended up being a hell of a problem for the contractors, less so the FA.


(please note: i may have made this fact up by accident)

Seem to remember something similar myself, perhaps we should have a clause like this as our stadium will be very time-critical.

 

[SpurSince57]

That's got nothing to do with the construction cost... Multiplex (?) had a fixed contract, so in fact, the FA got an unbelievably good deal!

That's true, but the downside is that the project went way over schedule; for a club, that would be disastrous.

 

[Chris12345]

Although, we'll have 75% of our stadium left... the FA had 0% of Wembley left...

 

[StartingPrice]

1) Of course Levy is going to say that though, he does need to get the fans to back the project, especially getting it through the planning.

In reality, 2) I still think building it will meaning a tightening of the belt.

1) I think you are seeing cockroaches in every crack and crevice:wink:;
2) This is just supposition...but, for the sake of argument, if we have a young and exciting squad (as we do) AND the percentage of our revenues going into squd building is slightly reduced, but our revenues our increasing due to success on the pitch (e.g. CL qualifiation), and, then, increased stadium capacity, how much will we notice it in the short term:shrug: How much will we benefit from it in the longer term:shrug:

 

[Aero]

All building contracts (that have been put together properly) will have a programme included in the contract. From that the builders performance is measured and if they are in delay through no fault but their own then they will be liable for damages.

 

[worcestersauce]

I think people are forgetting that the FA is an organisation run by commitee holding a bunch of competing egos whereas the club is a company with all the business acumen required to know when and how to rip the arse out of contractors who are falling behind; it wasn't the basic original contract that upfucked the Wembley project it was the lack of arse ripping during the build allowing it to drift.

 

[danielneeds]

1) I think you are seeing cockroaches in every crack and crevice:wink:;
2) This is just supposition...but, for the sake of argument, if we have a young and exciting squad (as we do) AND the percentage of our revenues going into squd building is slightly reduced, but our revenues our increasing due to success on the pitch (e.g. CL qualifiation), and, then, increased stadium capacity, how much will we notice it in the short term:shrug: How much will we benefit from it in the longer term:shrug:

I don't agree with Gibbsy, I think the stadium is essential, but the fundamental fact is that there is going to have to be a major loan taken out to pay for a large part of it. What do loans mean?....Interest. Its just basic business sense, that even with the increased revenue, we will have to tighten the belt to make sure we pay it back sooner rather than later, so that the club is not sure feeding the banks in the way United are at the moment.

 

[StartingPrice]

I don't agree with Gibbsy, I think the stadium is essential, but the fundamental fact is that there is going to have to be a major loan taken out to pay for a large part of it. What do loans mean?....Interest. Its just basic business sense, that even with the increased revenue, we will have to tighten the belt to make sure we pay it back sooner rather than later, so that the club is not sure feeding the banks in the way United are at the moment.

I haven't read the stadium plans with a fine toothcomb, and I'm not a business person (so I am sure there are folk who can do that more competently than I could). But...what I recall Dan Levy saying is: The money for he stadium is already in place; that the debt loan will be a relatively small one (no where near the full cost of the stadium); that the interest would be (relatively) easily manageable; and that the money for the stadium was hedged and would in no way impact upon funds set aside for squad building.

I am guessing that the fact the word was that 'Arry has Levy's backing to buy a 'special player' (which I suppose to mean a record transfer fee) suggests this is true.

LikeI said, I have no experience in the business worl, whereas Mr. Levy hs vast experience at a very high level. I actually believe that when he began hi tenure as Chairman and identified his long-term strategic goals, the new stadium would have been high on the list. I see no reason to view this project as strictly amateur night. And while I will literally plutz if it a falls arse-about-tit-wise, I don't actually have the presumption right now to try to pull apart the plans based on long-trm strategic goals, of expert business people. The only evidence I have ATM is that, whereas I have questioned some of Levy's decisions pertaining strictly to football (and the ethics of implementing some of those decision - re: BMJ), he has delvered an exciting young team and CL football.

 

[danielneeds]

I haven't read the stadium plans with a fine toothcomb, and I'm not a business person (so I am sure there are folk who can do that more competently than I could). But...what I recall Dan Levy saying is: The money for he stadium is already in place; that the debt loan will be a relatively small one (no where near the full cost of the stadium); that the interest would be (relatively) easily manageable; and that the money for the stadium was hedged and would in no way impact upon funds set aside for squad building.

I am guessing that the fact the word was that 'Arry has Levy's backing to buy a 'special player' (which I suppose to mean a record transfer fee) suggests this is true.

LikeI said, I have no experience in the business worl, whereas Mr. Levy hs vast experience at a very high level. I actually believe that when he began hi tenure as Chairman and identified his long-term strategic goals, the new stadium would have been high on the list. I see no reason to view this project as strictly amateur night. And while I will literally plutz if it a falls arse-about-tit-wise, I don't actually have the presumption right now to try to pull apart the plans based on long-trm strategic goals, of expert business people. The only evidence I have ATM is that, whereas I have questioned some of Levy's decisions pertaining strictly to football (and the ethics of implementing some of those decision - re: BMJ), he has delvered an exciting young team and CL football.

Everything you are saying is true, and I trust Levy in matters money too.
All saying is that I don't believe everything he is saying about the financing of the project, the details of which have been sketchy at best. He's not stupid though, and knows that we won't be able to fill a 56,000 stadium with a rubbish team. Even supposedly top business men f*uck up though, Lehman Brothers anyone? Nevertheless, in Levy i trust though.

 

[Stoof]

I don't agree with Gibbsy, I think the stadium is essential, but the fundamental fact is that there is going to have to be a major loan taken out to pay for a large part of it. What do loans mean?....Interest. Its just basic business sense, that even with the increased revenue, we will have to tighten the belt to make sure we pay it back sooner rather than later, so that the club is not sure feeding the banks in the way United are at the moment.

That's not generally how big business loans work though. It's not like paying off your overdraft.

A loan facility will be [x] amount for [y] number of years, and split into tranches for each phase of the development (as Matty has said). It's not a case of drawing down £400 million from the get-go.

As a side note, in the same way that other financing works: you pay it off quicker, you'll still pay a fee. In this market, the bank will win whichever way you look at it.

You probably know all this of course, so apologies if I'm patronising.

 

[Lilbaz]

Match day revenue will increase from £1m to £3m with the new stadium according to our financial figures. That is where the money will come from. If we pay back £1m per home game a season (roughly £25m a year) then we are still £1m better off. Yes the loan will probably be over 20 years.
Secondly the interest we pay back will be about 5-6% a year as this loan is based on assets (the new stadium) Man Utd payed 17-18% on about £200m of their debt because it wasn't covered by assets. This is why it spiralled out of control.

 

[whitelightwhiteheat]

Heard from someone on Facebook that the plans were rejected again, is that right? Or is he just spouting old news?

 

[Krafty]

Heard from someone on Facebook that the plans were rejected again, is that right? Or is he just spouting old news?

Its doubtful any government department would make a decision that quickly!

 

[There's always next year]

Everything you are saying is true, and I trust Levy in matters money too.
All saying is that I don't believe everything he is saying about the financing of the project, the details of which have been sketchy at best. He's not stupid though, and knows that we won't be able to fill a 56,000 stadium with a rubbish team. Even supposedly top business men f*uck up though, Lehman Brothers anyone? Nevertheless, in Levy i trust though.

Lehmann Brothers f*ucked up due to greed

 

[whitelightwhiteheat]

Its doubtful any government department would make a decision that quickly!

That's what I thought! Whoever posted it must have been behind the times and commenting on the fact we've had to change things for this recent application.

 

[gibbs131]

But...what I recall Dan Levy saying is: The money for he stadium is already in place; that the debt loan will be a relatively small one (no where near the full cost of the stadium); that the interest would be (relatively) easily manageable; and that the money for the stadium was hedged and would in no way impact upon funds set aside for squad building.

Can you back that up?

Why are we in debt if we have 200 million behind the sofa?

 

[DC_Boy]

Can you back that up?

Why are we in debt if we have 200 million behind the sofa?

hi Gibbsy

in what way are in debt? - sure we have a net debt of about £80m i believe - but that's offset by assets of over £200m -probably more like £300m

most companies AFAIK carry a bit of debt - certainly most football clubs do

i must admit I'm not at all clear as to who owns the properties around spurs that are currently being demolished - is it THFC or a holding company?

but we've got a new training ground on the go now and a stadium looking like it's going to get the green light soon too - without racking up much debt, and compared to our assets the debt is small and manageable ATM

it may spiral out of control of course - but i do have faith in Levy and ENIC that that won't happen

i would expect the minute we get planning permission our shares will rise in value

i think we can use that increased value to raise more money against the company to help build the stadium - via some kind of rights issue or other type of initiative, debenture stock or whatever

I don't know all the ins and outs but that's what i expect -

plus sponsorship, naming rights, deals with hotels, supermarkets, selling flats etc etc all to offset the cost

as a country we are slowly coming out of recession - ENIC are committed to this project - Joe Lewis can easily afford to underwrite the whole venture himself - he won't of course - but once we're building he has to back the stadium to some extent if we get in trouble, because it makes long-term sense to do so