New Stadium Details And Discussions

[Rocksuperstar]

I remember Levy saying it cannot be expanded a few years back. Think it's weird they don't incorporate future expansion into the design.

Hedging bets, I'd say that football is actually due a slump at some point - being a football fan has only been the single most popular past time for two or three generations, before that they were busy playing war and before that it was... i dunno, pushing a hoop down the High Road with a stick, or chariot racing or something, who cares.

In the US, Baseball was the sport of the people - crowds were big, stadiums were built to house them all, then all of a sudden the popularity started to wane, the money left and they were stuck with behemoth stadiums and only a handful of fans showing up. Now it's considered relatively dull to a lot of Americans, and I fully expect the same to happen to football eventually.

Eventually one of the future generations will find something else to entertain them in big numbers and when the crowds start to slump the money goes away. Levy and Lewis will have half an eye on when the right time to sell up will be, they are a business afterall, and this stadium will see way beyond that, so as long as this is in place and it's not half empty then they've done their job.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

Hedging bets, I'd say that football is actually due a slump at some point - being a football fan has only been the single most popular past time for two or three generations, before that they were busy playing war and before that it was... i dunno, pushing a hoop down the High Road with a stick, or chariot racing or something, who cares.

In the US, Baseball was the sport of the people - crowds were big, stadiums were built to house them all, then all of a sudden the popularity started to wane, the money left and they were stuck with behemoth stadiums and only a handful of fans showing up. Now it's considered relatively dull to a lot of Americans, and I fully expect the same to happen to football eventually.

Eventually one of the future generations will find something else to entertain them in big numbers and when the crowds start to slump the money goes away. Levy and Lewis will have half an eye on when the right time to sell up will be, they are a business afterall, and this stadium will see way beyond that, so as long as this is in place and it's not half empty then they've done their job.

Maybe that's right - possibly for different reasons though i.e. football will remain popular but the viewing experience from the comfort of your own home will just get better and better, to the point that attendances at the games will decline

Dunno though really - It's an interesting topic eh? I wonder what a future VR type match experience could be like?

 

[Japseye]

I think they have simply pushed pretty much the limit that the plot and transport infrastructure will allow... I am sure that they can squeeze a few more (couple of hundred maybe) out of the existing design as they already have but as previously seen this may well not go to supporters but will be made available to either press/corporate/staff...

The safe standing provision is good forward planning and i think would push our capacity up to 70-75k? i am not sure how many extra fans the infrastructure could support beyond this.

 

[Goldman]

I think they have simply pushed pretty much the limit that the plot and transport infrastructure will allow... I am sure that they can squeeze a few more (couple of hundred maybe) out of the existing design as they already have but as previously seen this may well not go to supporters but will be made available to either press/corporate/staff...

The safe standing provision is good forward planning and i think would push our capacity up to 70-75k? i am not sure how many extra fans the infrastructure could support beyond this.

Safe standing shouldn’t actually increase the attendance though?

I thought the idea is you still get a seat, it’s just folded and then locked into position. I don’t think they just cram in more people? Could be wrong...

 

[Phischy]

The roof is another factor. We've had this conversation before, but...

• The roof design selected was one of the most cost efficient.
• Most stadiums have a roof supported by pillars or a cantilever structure, this means you can remove the structure over one stand, build up and add a new roof (Like Old Trafford or the recent expansions at Anfield or the Etihad).
• Our roof design only works on an 'all or nothing' basis, as it requires support from the entire stadium ring.

This means that an expansion involving building up a single stand with another tier wouldn't be possible without making wholesale changes to the design of the roof and replacing it with a new/different one. Whilst this may be possible it's unlikely to ever be financially viable.

This means, depending on whether you believe the chicken or egg came first that either DL was happy to put cost/design first on the roof selected and accept no further capacity increases or (my guess) the site and transport links are already being pushed to their limit in terms of space and ability to move people, so there was never a real possibility of significantly enhancing capacity in future, even if there was the demand, so it was more than acceptable to have a roof which also didn't facilitate expansion.

When you look at our attendances at Wembley, I think we all have to accept that 62k is the right number to regularly have a full or near full house and in London, with so many clubs competing for bums on seats, even if our global appeal increases, we can't expect demand for tickets for an average PL game to get significantly higher. As has been suggested popularity of anything is cyclical. Sometimes the cycles take decades or even a century to go from peak to trough, but football was on its knees (compared to today) in the 70s and 80s and for whatever reason it will fall from grace again one day.

 

[Phischy]

Safe standing shouldn’t actually increase the attendance though?

I thought the idea is you still get a seat, it’s just folded and then locked into position. I don’t think they just cram in more people? Could be wrong...

It will. The seats used for safe standing are smaller/narrower on the basis that those in that area will choose to stand, the seat is really just in case someone wants to have a sit for 10 mins or so. If my memory serves I think if it's ever allowed it will increase capacity by around 5k and will involve the lower half of the South Stand only.

 

[Hotspur88]

The roof is another factor. We've had this conversation before, but...

• The roof design selected was one of the most cost efficient.
• Most stadiums have a roof supported by pillars or a cantilever structure, this means you can remove the structure over one stand, build up and add a new roof (Like Old Trafford or the recent expansions at Anfield or the Etihad).
• Our roof design only works on an 'all or nothing' basis, as it requires support from the entire stadium ring.

This means that an expansion involving building up a single stand with another tier wouldn't be possible without making wholesale changes to the design of the roof and replacing it with a new/different one. Whilst this may be possible it's unlikely to ever be financially viable.

This means, depending on whether you believe the chicken or egg came first that either DL was happy to put cost/design first on the roof selected and accept no further capacity increases or (my guess) the site and transport links are already being pushed to their limit in terms of space and ability to move people, so there was never a real possibility of significantly enhancing capacity in future, even if there was the demand, so it was more than acceptable to have a roof which also didn't facilitate expansion.

When you look at our attendances at Wembley, I think we all have to accept that 62k is the right number to regularly have a full or near full house and in London, with so many clubs competing for bums on seats, even if our global appeal increases, we can't expect demand for tickets for an average PL game to get significantly higher. As has been suggested popularity of anything is cyclical. Sometimes the cycles take decades or even a century to go from peak to trough, but football was on its knees (compared to today) in the 70s and 80s and for whatever reason it will fall from grace again one day.

VAR

 

[Lilbaz]

Safe standing shouldn’t actually increase the attendance though?

I thought the idea is you still get a seat, it’s just folded and then locked into position. I don’t think they just cram in more people? Could be wrong...

Depends what type of safe standing you use. Dortmunds capacity increases a fair bit when in safe standing mode. Celtics doesn't i believe.

 

[Hengy1]

Safe standing shouldn’t actually increase the attendance though?

I thought the idea is you still get a seat, it’s just folded and then locked into position. I don’t think they just cram in more people? Could be wrong...

1 seat = half a safe standing seat

I think

 

[Japseye]

It will. The seats used for safe standing are smaller/narrower on the basis that those in that area will choose to stand, the seat is really just in case someone wants to have a sit for 10 mins or so. If my memory serves I think if it's ever allowed it will increase capacity by around 5k and will involve the lower half of the South Stand only.

Think they have identified other areas that could also be converted to safe standing, think it was being discussed on SSC a while back but could be wrong

 

[danielneeds]

The roof is another factor. We've had this conversation before, but...

• The roof design selected was one of the most cost efficient.
• Most stadiums have a roof supported by pillars or a cantilever structure, this means you can remove the structure over one stand, build up and add a new roof (Like Old Trafford or the recent expansions at Anfield or the Etihad).
• Our roof design only works on an 'all or nothing' basis, as it requires support from the entire stadium ring.

This means that an expansion involving building up a single stand with another tier wouldn't be possible without making wholesale changes to the design of the roof and replacing it with a new/different one. Whilst this may be possible it's unlikely to ever be financially viable.

This means, depending on whether you believe the chicken or egg came first that either DL was happy to put cost/design first on the roof selected and accept no further capacity increases or (my guess) the site and transport links are already being pushed to their limit in terms of space and ability to move people, so there was never a real possibility of significantly enhancing capacity in future, even if there was the demand, so it was more than acceptable to have a roof which also didn't facilitate expansion.

When you look at our attendances at Wembley, I think we all have to accept that 62k is the right number to regularly have a full or near full house and in London, with so many clubs competing for bums on seats, even if our global appeal increases, we can't expect demand for tickets for an average PL game to get significantly higher. As has been suggested popularity of anything is cyclical. Sometimes the cycles take decades or even a century to go from peak to trough, but football was on its knees (compared to today) in the 70s and 80s and for whatever reason it will fall from grace again one day.

I think the speed that this roof went up was also a factor. A traditional cantilever one would have put a lot of time on the stadium build, non?

 

[spids]

Maybe that's right - possibly for different reasons though i.e. football will remain popular but the viewing experience from the comfort of your own home will just get better and better, to the point that attendances at the games will decline

Dunno though really - It's an interesting topic eh? I wonder what a future VR type match experience could be like?

I personally hope to see hologram projections in my lifetime. This really lends itself to sports. Imagine having a large surface (e.g. the size of a dining room table) and onto that surface the pitch (or tennis court or boxing ring etc.) is projected in 3D. You could move to any view point you wanted as the match unfolded.

 

[ryantegan]

I personally hope to see hologram projections in my lifetime. This really lends itself to sports. Imagine having a large surface (e.g. the size of a dining room table) and onto that surface the pitch (or tennis court or boxing ring etc.) is projected in 3D. You could move to any view point you wanted as the match unfolded.

You could flick sissoko at your leisure, I love it

 

[Lilbaz]

I personally hope to see hologram projections in my lifetime. This really lends itself to sports. Imagine having a large surface (e.g. the size of a dining room table) and onto that surface the pitch (or tennis court or boxing ring etc.) is projected in 3D. You could move to any view point you wanted as the match unfolded.

I hope to see computers directly communicating to our brains. Sight, sound and all our other senses are just electrical signals that are interpreted by our brains. You could record the signals in a footballers brain and transmit them into yours and you could be that player, just not having control.

 

[beats1]

Safe standing shouldn’t actually increase the attendance though?

I thought the idea is you still get a seat, it’s just folded and then locked into position. I don’t think they just cram in more people? Could be wrong...

Depends, on the ratio clubs will use, Celtic use a 1 seat to 1 person ratio whereas in Germany they use 1 seat to 1.6 person ratio iirc

 

[Hoopspur]

It will. The seats used for safe standing are smaller/narrower on the basis that those in that area will choose to stand, the seat is really just in case someone wants to have a sit for 10 mins or so. If my memory serves I think if it's ever allowed it will increase capacity by around 5k and will involve the lower half of the South Stand only.

I read about the German system that you get 3 standing positions for every 2 seats.

 

[Spurs 1961]

Think they have identified other areas that could also be converted to safe standing, think it was being discussed on SSC a while back but could be wrong

I think you are right. I am sure when checking the interactive map a couple of others areas came up as future proofed for safe standing

 

[Phischy]

I read about the German system that you get 3 standing positions for every 2 seats.

Ah, sure, similar principle, just not everyone gets a seat rather than smaller, probably makes more sense and I just read the ratio thing as smaller seats rather than more people than seats!

 

[Phischy]

I think you are right. I am sure when checking the interactive map a couple of others areas came up as future proofed for safe standing

That's interesting, I am out of date on my info there then!

 

[Spurs 1961]

That's interesting, I am out of date on my info there then!

What surprised me is that they didn't show as highlighted on the map but when trawling around I came across at least one other area but not sure where. I will look later