New Stadium Details And Discussions

[Blackrat1299]

Right - "all-seater" requires that everyone who is admitted as a spectator has a defined seat.

Safe-Standing - should it be implemented - would allow stadiums to admit a number of fans who do not have a specific seat to stand in.

That is not "You must remain in your seat at all times."

If you are standing in a seated only stadia, you are by definition not in a safe standing area therefore you are breaking the law. However I understand the quandry of spontaneous standing ie when a goal is scored etc but the law is the law. I would suspect, if those spectators resumed seating again the no action would be taken. Tere is supposed to be NO GREY AREAS in law, but we all know that is not the case.

 

[worcestersauce]

I'm not sure they will lock our seats upright if we go safe standing as I can't recall seeing a ready made way of doing that so my understanding is that the barriers are already there so when it is allowed we just need to stand up and the barriers will stop us falling forward and also give us something handy to lean on, not that anything like that has happened yet but we remain hopeful for the future.

 

[Blackrat1299]

I'm not sure they will lock our seats upright if we go safe standing as I can't recall seeing a ready made way of doing that so my understanding is that the barriers are already there so when it is allowed we just need to stand up and the barriers will stop us falling forward and also give us something handy to lean on, not that anything like that has happened yet but we remain hopeful for the future.

I did read, somewhere, that in germany safe standing is allowed in league matches, but in UEFA controlled games its all seated.

 

[LexingtonSpurs]

If you are standing in a seated only stadia, you are by definition not in a safe standing area therefore you are breaking the law. However I understand the quandry of spontaneous standing ie when a goal is scored etc but the law is the law. I would suspect, if those spectators resumed seating again the no action would be taken. Tere is supposed to be NO GREY AREAS in law, but we all know that is not the case.

I think that is my point - standing in a stadium, is actually not against the law. The laws are designed to ensure every person admitted as a specific seat - and that is where they are permitted to watch the match. The law does not actually require you to sit in your seat.

It breaks a ground-rule - which is what you agree to abide by when you buy your ticket - but that is a civil matter.

 

[chrissivad]

I'm not sure they will lock our seats upright if we go safe standing as I can't recall seeing a ready made way of doing that so my understanding is that the barriers are already there so when it is allowed we just need to stand up and the barriers will stop us falling forward and also give us something handy to lean on, not that anything like that has happened yet but we remain hopeful for the future.

The seats can also be folded up andlocked to allow standing. Tottenhamhave already written to fans buying season tickets warning that an area of the 17,500-capacity South Stand has been earmarked for standing and that it is not suitable for children

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...ert-to-safe-standing-within-an-hour-vc5hfpmsl

 

[LexingtonSpurs]

I'm not sure they will lock our seats upright if we go safe standing as I can't recall seeing a ready made way of doing that so my understanding is that the barriers are already there so when it is allowed we just need to stand up and the barriers will stop us falling forward and also give us something handy to lean on, not that anything like that has happened yet but we remain hopeful for the future.

Given how easily the seats went in - I think they will remove the seats altogether. It is a safety issue if people are standing on the seats - so, when safe standing is implemented, I think the bar is all you will get...

 

[jimbo]

Interesting to see the often selfish attitudes displayed on this site, sadly reflective of society. I guess the guy who ran onto the pitch the other day probably thinks that real fans are so excited they have to run on the pitch and people who don't should stay at home.

By the way I did get up in the lift on Tuesday. A steward saw me taking a long look at the bottom of the stairs and pointed me in the direction of the lift. Had to wait a little as one life was out of action but did get up and it was worth waiting

That is an excellent example of a straw man fallacy. Another would be me saying that you want everyone to sit quietly in their seats for the duration of the game, speaking only in a whisper to your nearest neighbours so as to be considerate of those with sensitive ears. The two are not the same, not even close.

Anyway, I've said my piece on this and will leave it to others.

I am glad that you were able to get to the game and I hope that you enjoyed it. The stairs are a nightmare for my knees, so I'm sure the lift can really make a difference for those with worse mobility issues. Hopefully they'll get them all working for next time.

 

[spursphil]

Rubbi


I thought having the away supporters in the Paxton would effect the atmosphere for the worse but having read your post it could actually improve as the volume will undoubtedly increase in the North with them being next to the away supporters and the Park Lane with its huge pub n terrace should take care of itself

The atmosphere was really good, just what you would hope it would be for a big game.
I did notice those stewards randomly grab people for standing when the whole block was doing the same. There was no trouble in the Paxton until they started making themselves busy. All you had was people really enjoying themselves singing their hearts out for the team.

 

[easley91]

Perhaps you didn't understand that I was presenting an argument, not a serious point or one I necessarily subscribe to.

However, seeing as you're here... You struggle with all aspects of going to a game. I can't give you my seat on the train, though if you asked me to and were obviously struggling I would. I can't carry you up the steps either, and I'm afraid I'd have to draw the line there regardless. So how do you manage? I suspect you just get on with it, without complaining (until you come on here), knowing that it will be difficult for you but that you want to be there. Fair play to you for that, I'd be the same - having had some pretty serious injuries myself I know what long-term pain feels like.

So there you are, in the stand - presumably arriving early so you can minimise the effect of transport congestion, make sure you have plenty of time to negotiate the stairs at your own speed, and to ensure you can have a long sit down before kick-off to recover.

The game kicks off and everyone around you stands up - perhaps you stand with them initially, but you can't manage it for long and have to sit down. Perhaps the people around you notice and try to help you, perhaps not. You stand when you can, sit when you must - but you're still there.

Otherwise, have you considered the disabled section?

It is not a long-term permanent thing. I won't go to a game again until fully recovered post surgery, which may be several months into next season. I'm a stubborn person so will suffer in silence when in pain. I don't have anything obvious on me that screams injury. I also have anxieties that make it difficult for me to ask for help. I am not going to go into everything here, because it's rather personal. To keep it short, I have had a rather difficult period and one of the very few things that has got me through and kept me going is Tottenham Hotspur. The buzz of Tuesday night was something that has kept me going in a dark time. Going to the ground before surgery next Thursday was something I wanted to do. First few games while I could just about manage. Should I have done it, knowing the injury? Maybe, maybe not. But you do only live once and the first CL game at the new ground is only once in a lifetime.

 

[Lilbaz]

I think that is my point - standing in a stadium, is actually not against the law. The laws are designed to ensure every person admitted as a specific seat - and that is where they are permitted to watch the match. The law does not actually require you to sit in your seat.

It breaks a ground-rule - which is what you agree to abide by when you buy your ticket - but that is a civil matter.

If it was up to the clubs why do they keep on petitioning for a change to the rules? Why not just let fans stand? Because they will lose their health and safety certificate if they don't enforce the seating rule.

 

[worcestersauce]

The seats can also be folded up andlocked to allow standing. Tottenhamhave already written to fans buying season tickets warning that an area of the 17,500-capacity South Stand has been earmarked for standing and that it is not suitable for children

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...ert-to-safe-standing-within-an-hour-vc5hfpmsl

Yes but despite what the Times says I saw no evidence of a simple locking system on my seat, I may be wrong and I will investigate further on Saturday.
I went to the Werder Bremen CL match a few years back and they were individual barriers on each seat which could be raised to accomodate standing which may have locked the seat too but in our stadium the barriers are permanently in place so I'm not sure anything changes.

Given how easily the seats went in - I think they will remove the seats altogether. It is a safety issue if people are standing on the seats - so, when safe standing is implemented, I think the bar is all you will get...

I very much doubt that, I can't see them taking the seats out altogether and storing them just to put them back in again for rugby and NFL fixtures among other things. Besides it would spoil the look of the stand.

I did read, somewhere, that in germany safe standing is allowed in league matches, but in UEFA controlled games its all seated.

That may be the case but I didn't see anybody sitting where we were when we played over there.

 

[LexingtonSpurs]

If it was up to the clubs why do they keep on petitioning for a change to the rules? Why not just let fans stand? Because they will lose their health and safety certificate if they don't enforce the seating rule.

Increase in capacity = more tickets, more stadium spending.

Away fans stand for 90 minutes - has any stadium lost its health and safety certificate as a result? The two are not related.

 

[Lighty64]

I'm sympathetic to those who can't stand, I genuinely am. But, the atmosphere is better with standing. It's more active, more involved and it helps create the intimidating environment that will benefit us in games. I hate watching football sitting down, it seriously tarnishes my experience. You don't want your enjoyment sacrificed, and I don't want mine to be either - is it not fair to say that we should be able to find a way for all to have the best experience, not just one group or the other?

The way the tickets are done obviously needs to change in my opinion. If you need to sit for 90 mins you should be able to get a ticket in a stand where that is the norm. But equally, I don't think it's unreasonable to also have a section of the ground where standing is more acceptable (obviously continuous standing is not necessarily good, but let's say more frequent standing for want of a better phrase).

At the moment it feels like two factions trying to force their needs/preference on the other and there should be room for all. Obviously there are people who want to experience the atmosphere of the South Stand - regardless of the sitting/standing issue I'm not keen on this idea that you 'experience' it, if you're there then you should be a contributing part of it. It's a collective.



It's really not that bad, I was easily able to hop over the seats when I accidentally returned to the wrong row after half time. No danger of starting a human avalanche.

so when you hopped over the seat, and you made no contact with the person in that seat? you also hopped over and never fell, well done. the difference next time is if you knock him flying his fall could effect the 20 rows in front

 

[Lilbaz]

Increase in capacity = more tickets, more stadium spending.

Away fans stand for 90 minutes - has any stadium lost its health and safety certificate as a result? The two are not related.

What they were petitioning was for 1 to 1 safe standing meaning no increase to capacity. Same as celtic use.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/45341192

 

[Lilbaz]

so when you hopped over the seat, and you made no contact with the person in that seat? you also hopped over and never fell, well done. the difference next time is if you knock him flying his fall could effect the 20 rows in front

Lighty if it was as dangerous as you suggest the ground wouldn't be open. People going to their seat might kill everyone if they stumbled.

 

[eViL]

If you are standing in a seated only stadia, you are by definition not in a safe standing area therefore you are breaking the law.

You aren't though. There's no laws or rules that say you have to sit, only that the club have to provide each ticketed admission with an allocated seat.

 

[worcestersauce]

so when you hopped over the seat, and you made no contact with the person in that seat? you also hopped over and never fell, well done. the difference next time is if you knock him flying his fall could effect the 20 rows in front

It really isn't that dangerous mate, to be honest by putting in seats they made standing safer that's the irony.

 

[jimbo]

so when you hopped over the seat, and you made no contact with the person in that seat? you also hopped over and never fell, well done. the difference next time is if you knock him flying his fall could effect the 20 rows in front

It was at half time, so there was room. The bloke in the row I was in gave me a hand to help me get my leg over, as it were. If I'd fallen over I'd have gone straight down on the flat floor of the row where my seat was. Nowhere near enough force to send anyone flying, I'd need a run up for that, and to overcome the effect of gravity with enough momentum to take me past the backs of the seats in front. The space between seats is good, the floor space around them is good. There really is no issue of someone taking a tumble and clearing out several rows. Even Andre the Giant with a running start would struggle to take out 20 rows of people.

One of my colleagues is a Leeds fan, now he had a phone video from their game at Reading, one of their fans climbed up the stanchion and was basically swinging off the roof of the stand above. Then he fell. Everything goes quiet for a moment before he jumps up again and carries on the "let's go fucking mental, let's go fucking mental" chant.

So as long as we don't take things to that extreme, it will be fine.

 

[Lilbaz]

You aren't though. There's no laws or rules that say you have to sit, only that the club have to provide each ticketed admission with an allocated seat.

It is nor illegal in the fact that you cannot be arrested for standing, but it is a law that the club can lose their entertainment licence if they do not crack down on persistent standing.

• The legislation relating to standing in football grounds derives from section 11 of the Football Spectators Act 1989: ‘The Secretary of State may, by order, direct the licensing authority to include in any licence to admit spectators to any specified premises a condition imposing requirements as respects the seating of spectators at designated football matches at the premises; and it shall be the duty of the authority to comply with the direction.’

 

[Lighty64]

Perhaps you didn't understand that I was presenting an argument, not a serious point or one I necessarily subscribe to.

However, seeing as you're here... You struggle with all aspects of going to a game. I can't give you my seat on the train, though if you asked me to and were obviously struggling I would. I can't carry you up the steps either, and I'm afraid I'd have to draw the line there regardless. So how do you manage? I suspect you just get on with it, without complaining (until you come on here), knowing that it will be difficult for you but that you want to be there. Fair play to you for that, I'd be the same - having had some pretty serious injuries myself I know what long-term pain feels like.

So there you are, in the stand - presumably arriving early so you can minimise the effect of transport congestion, make sure you have plenty of time to negotiate the stairs at your own speed, and to ensure you can have a long sit down before kick-off to recover.

The game kicks off and everyone around you stands up - perhaps you stand with them initially, but you can't manage it for long and have to sit down. Perhaps the people around you notice and try to help you, perhaps not. You stand when you can, sit when you must - but you're still there.

Otherwise, have you considered the disabled section?

Jimbo, the only seats in the disabled section you don't have to stand are in the South Stand. I went to the Legends and Palace games, going to the Huddersfield, all in the North middle. the minute anything happens that gets bums off seats you have no choice if you want to see it yourself. I was originally there for Man C, but got a transfer to the South after mentioning the probs (to late for Huddersfield). In future everytime I attempt to get tickets I will apply for the South. a lot further to walk, less disabled facilities but I'll be able to help create extra to the atmosphere, see the game, and be in less pain doing so