Our squad is too old

[spids]

We are completely ok
View attachment 72048

Great visualisation!

 

[BringBack_leGin]

Your melancholy wafts through the corridors of SC like a fat mans fart after a Spanish omelette.

Super excited to see what your next thread is.

 

[Pat Rice Spurs fan]

I want to see box plots for each of the squads involved in the comparison.

Are these like cemetery plots?
Surely our players aren't that old!!!

 

[brasil_spur]

Appreciate the effort OP but I don't agree with this at all.

Id also like to see average age of some of the recent CL and other cup winning teams for comparison.

 

[wirE]

Your post is too long!








But seriously, no........our squad is far from being too old. For starters, I'm not sure how you've arrived at your average figure. Using the same source - and omitting goalkeepers (because, in terms of age, they are judged very differently); those who have left, either permanently or on loan; and those who are very unlikely to feature (most of the recent academy graduates) - I get an average of 24.5. Which is actually quite young.

Besides, there is an all too prevalent myth these days that players who are in their late 20's are past it. Not so long ago, that used to be considered a player's prime.

Genuinely, I don't think we have anything to worry about in this regard.

TL;DR Our squad is too old.

 

[Kiedis]

We've spent the last two transfer windows buying players that are yet to reach their peak age, and Højbjerg is very much in the same category. Hart is what he is, but it's pretty clear that the age profile is something we've been trying to address.

 

[beats1]

Sorry for the clickbait title. But I thought I'd actually do some analysis into this, as I'm trying to find reasons to get excited about this promising new Tottenham Hotspur side, and quite frankly, I am struggling.

Whenever we've had poor seasons before that we have been able to recover from and re-build the team after (examples listed here - https://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/index.php?threads/is-there-a-way-back-this-time.142365/) - I have always been able to take comfort in the fact that we have a young side and a few potentially top class players coming through that could improve and take us to the next level. Looking at our current squad, which dismally failed in its objectives last season, most of the players are either at or very close to their prime age wise, have declined past it, or are most likely never going to be good enough.

This isn't a universal rule, but young players tend to be hungrier, fitter, faster, more able to deal with the demands of the intensity of Premier League football. They also, clearly, have more long term value to a side as they offer more years of potential high quality football if they stay or sell-on value if they don't. ENIC have rarely gone for big name big money signings in their time here but generally speaking they have always made sure to invest in high quality young prospects to keep the machine ticking over. However, that appears to have stopped, and on current analysis I think the situation is now starting to look bleak with our current squad.

Using the data from https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/tottenham-hotspur/leistungsdaten/verein/148 - I looked into the average ages of squads based around the top 20 players ranked by minutes played in all competitions last season. All well and good talking about some great prospect in the U18s but if they're not actually ready for first team football any time soon then they're not really relevant - I want examples of players currently in and around the first team squad. Likewise if you have a 40 year old 3rd choice keeper, that's also not really relevant. What I've found is that our squad generally speaking is older than many of our rivals - meaning that whilst they may well get better next season, unless we act quickly, we may well get worse.

• Arsenal - Average 25.75, Median 26
• Chelsea - Average 25.9, Median 26
• Man Utd - Average 25.95, Median 25.5
• Leicester - Average 26.7, Median 25
• Tottenham - Average 27.25, Median 27.5

Even before we start looking at potential young signings coming into their squads (Werner, Havertz, Gabriel etc), on the basis of this it would appear that our existing players are less likely to improve year on year than theirs. The two outliers to this theory are of course the Premier League's top two, who read as follows:

• Liverpool - Average 27.5, Median 28
• Man City - Average 27.95, Median 26.5

There are three points to consider here. Firstly, that they are packed full of world class players across each position, so that even if some do decline slightly or spend more time injured, there are still world class players throughout. Secondly, I do feel both sides have peaked, in 2019 both felt invincible whereas they have each started to show signs of weakness in 2020 - and without good quality signings this window I expect they would both decline further next season. But lastly, because the cores of the squads have been together for a few years in both cases. If we are to go back to the 2017/18 season when the current squads for both teams really started to take shape (Silva, Walker, Ederson and Laporte joining Man City and then Salah, Van Dijk, Robertson and Alexander-Arnold coming into the Liverpool side), the make-up looks like this:

• Liverpool - Average 24.75, Median 25
• Man City - Average 25.85, Median 26

For historical comparison purposes, looking at some of our old squads when we embarked on successful "new era" seasons, the averages were as follows:

• 2005-06 - Average 24.4, Median 24
• 2009-10 - Average 24.55, Median 24
• 2015-16 - Average 23.8, Median 23.5

But it's not about averages I hear you cry. It's about how good those select few individuals are. We can never replace all of our players at the same time, but if we've got a few stars that come through then we can build the team around them. Sadly, I'm struggling to see it. If you look at Chelsea - they have the likes of Pulisic, Abraham, Mount, Hudson-Odoi, James, Gilmour and Tomori (if he stays), all under the age of 23. If you were to look at our current crop of youngsters, how many would you rate as potentially world class? People expect big things of Tanganga but he's still very raw, and whilst Bergwijn looked promising in flashes (incidentally he did NOT count as one of our top 20 players in minutes played last season), do you think Man Utd would swap him for any of Greenwood, Rashford or Martial who are all of a similar age bracket? Arsenal have a habit of hyping up young players well beyond their actual abilities, but I look at them building a young side with Martinelli, Saka, Tierney, Willock, Nelson, Nketiah etc and can't help but worry that the likely scenario is that some of them become pretty damn good. Skipp and Parrott might also be "highly rated", but neither deemed good enough for the first team this season and neither able to even find a Premier League club willing to take them on loan. Clarke, Sessegnon, Whiteman...all seem miles off the first team, with Foyth and Carter-Vickers seemingly about to be discarded.

We then find ourselves talking about the likes of Alli, Sanchez and Winks as young players as they are still "only" 24, even though they've been around for ages. They could still improve, but it feels like none of them are going to reach the potential we thought they had in 2017. I'd hope Lo Celso and Ndombele (if he ever gets picked) would improve in their second seasons in England. But beyond that our situation looks bleak to be honest. If the likes of Kane, Son and Lucas start to decline now that they've hit that mystical 27/28 age bracket, just like Vertonghen, Dembele, Rose, Alderweireld and Eriksen did, then who is going to step up to the mantle and take their place? Where are the young Ledley Kings, Aaron Lennons, Michael Dawsons, Tom Huddlestones, Gareth Bales, Danny Roses, Kyle Walkers, Harry Kanes and Dele Allis that you can see coming through the ranks to become future superstars that we can build our team around for the next few years? Are we planning on signing any potentially world class youngsters like Eriksen, Modric or Son, or are we only looking at experienced players that can "do a job" like Hojbjerg, or come in as no more than backup like Hart or Wilson?

We once went over two years between Adebayor and Llorente without fielding a single outfield player over the age of 30. But gone are the days where I think of Spurs as an upcoming young side - now it feels we're past our prime, and even at their peak then players like Sissoko, Davies, Aurier and Lamela were never exactly world class. Our squad looks light on numbers with an excess number of games coming up likely to take a battering on their ageing bodies, and quite frankly, things do not look good. Does anyone have a counterpoint to this, and a reason to feel optimistic about the future?

Im old to enough to remember when had the youngest squad everyone on here was telling how we were building something and would win trophies as this group grows up

I always felt we were like arsenal after the invincible got a young squad but struggling to achieve anything, yea we got top 4 and challenged but we never were convincing

I always thing back to when we had this team

Adebayor
VDV
Bale Modric Parker Lennon
BAE - King/Kaboul - Gallas - Walker
Friedel

Had we signed Rossi, I truly believe we would have broken the glass ceiling and be challenging for trophies, had we got CL and signed Hazard, I think we would have kicked on. If we actually made a real bid for Aguerro, we would have been challenging for the title the next season

This team under Poch was always one signing away from possibly kicking on, imo an experienced attacker(RW) or some intelligence in CM. A modric/carrick would have transformed the team or an attacker like Sanchez(I know a crazy signing) who works hard, presses and scores alot.

I think this season we have a lot of players who look older than their age and not in a good way; Alli, Son, Kane and Toby look like newish regs with really high mileages on the clock

That said. I think we will have a really good window but also an unspectacular and uninspiring window.

Hojberg, a player who isn't nothing to shout about but exactly what we need and are desperate for. A striker who actually plays upfront is a game changer

I expect us to do better than the pundits predict and shock a few people. Though it does hurt a little see all these other teams make inspiring attacking signings

 

[C0YS]

Im old to enough to remember when had the youngest squad everyone on here was telling how we were building something and would win trophies as this group grows up

I always felt we were like arsenal after the invincible got a young squad but struggling to achieve anything, yea we got top 4 and challenged but we never were convincing

I always thing back to when we had this team

​

Had we signed Rossi, I truly believe we would have broken the glass ceiling and be challenging for trophies, had we got CL and signed Hazard, I think we would have kicked on. If we actually made a real bid for Aguerro, we would have been challenging for the title the next season

This team under Poch was always one signing away from possibly kicking on, imo an experienced attacker(RW) or some intelligence in CM. A modric/carrick would have transformed the team or an attacker like Sanchez(I know a crazy signing) who works hard, presses and scores alot.

I think this season we have a lot of players who look older than their age and not in a good way; Alli, Son, Kane and Toby look like newish regs with really high mileages on the clock

That said. I think we will have a really good window but also an unspectacular and uninspiring window.

Hojberg, a player who isn't nothing to shout about but exactly what we need and are desperate for. A striker who actually plays upfront is a game changer

I expect us to do better than the pundits predict and shock a few people. Though it does hurt a little see all these other teams make inspiring attacking signings

we did end end up kicking on, ignoring the ifs and buts. The thing is, overachieving always leads to wanting more. We were good enough in both cases to win something, we just didn't

Rossi, in retrospect would have been a terrible signing. The guy has had a lot of injuries, but even ignoring that he had only one top quality season at that point and never had consistency. Pretty sure he'd of flopped, and/or be injured all the time. Sanchez also would have been a terrible signing, he hasn't come close to rediscovering his from and most of those suggestions were never going to be realistic.

We did try really hard for Hazard, and I think had Chelsea not won the CL we would have got him, but they did and he went there instead.

Could have we strengthened? Yes. But Poch's teams were already good enough to win league titles, FA cups and we were very close to wining the CL too. Ultimately, it's always sliding doors, one off games become narratives and once a narrative sticks its hard to shake off.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

I could not disagree more with the OP. I have been concerned that our squad is too young for years. The battle of the bridge - we could have done with a couple of wizened old heads to steer us through an emotional game. The CL final - Liverpool were there for the taking, but we had no experienced winners in the team. I want more experience and more players in their peak years 26-32.

We do have few old 'uns ....
Lloris 33 (great age for a keeper)
Toby 31
Sissoko 31

But finally our young players are maturing into their peak years, the years where really good players win things....
Son 28
Moura 28
Lamela 28
Kane 27
Davies 27
Dier 26
Hjobjerg 25

Supported by a raft of very talented players who in the next two years will mature and get better ....
Wnks 24
Dele 24
Lo Celso 24
Sanchez 24
Ndombele 23
Bergwijn 22
Foyth 22
Sessegnon 20

And with academy prospects to come off the conveyor belt...
Parrot 18
Skipp 19
Cirkin 18

There is a reason Mourinho likes players who are 27+, he wants mature players who are tactically intelligent and ready to win things.

In a perfect world we would be able to replace the older outfield players (Toby and Sissoko) with replacements entering in their peak years, like Skriniar (25) and Brozovic (27) from Inter Milan, and if we did that I would be really excited!

This.
if anything we lack a bit of experienc.

 

[Grapo2001]

Too long, didn't read. But no its not.

 

[rabbikeane]

Its at a good age to deliver

 

[GetKaned]

These young sides that resemble an academy side can at best win trophies for a season. To be consistently winning titles, you need both youth and experience. There was a lot of romanticism in the Pochettino era about developing young talents, spending modestly, playing heavy metal football and all. Its time for a more level headed approach now. If we can't sign players at 27/28, we shouldn't be keeping our 27/28 year old players like Kane then.