Player Ratings v Villa

[jezz]

FWIW, both Alli and Kane said after the game that the ball was meant for Kane, not Lamela.

Also, it's arguable that the narrative from some that everything he does is overhyped is actually bigger than the overhyping that does happen. Of course, the same people will dismiss his game changing contributions because he can't control the ball and he sometimes misplaces passes. Although they're usually the same people that bizarrely seem to prefer controlling games than winnning them anyway.

I Personally I thought it was for Lamela but if Dele says it was for Kane then that's a fantastic pass by him.
I thought the first assist was brilliant but the second one was an eye of the needle pass, kudos.
Plenty to learn young Dele but he's gonna be some player in a couple of years.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

FWIW, both Alli and Kane said after the game that the ball was meant for Kane, not Lamela.

Also, it's arguable that the narrative from some that everything he does is overhyped is actually bigger than the overhyping that does happen. Of course, the same people will dismiss his game changing contributions because he can't control the ball and he sometimes misplaces passes. Although they're usually the same people that bizarrely seem to prefer controlling games than winnning them anyway.

Is it arguable? Can you find anyone who has said everything he does is overhyped? Or is that supercilious bollocks and really everyone has acknowledged the good things but are also stating an awareness of, and even giving real examples of, some over-hyping?

I think everyone has acknowledged the good things he is bringing, haven't seen anyone say otherwise, have you? Can you quote them if you have?

 

[glospur]

Is it arguable? Can you find anyone who has said everything he does is overhyped? Or is that supercilious bollocks and really everyone has acknowledged the good things but are also stating an awareness of, and even giving real examples of, some over-hyping?

I think everyone has acknowledged the good things he is bringing, haven't seen anyone say otherwise, have you? Can you quote them if you have?

Wow, you're really carrying that, aren't you? I thought you would have recognised exaggeration to make a point, after all it's one of your go to methods. In any case, the point I was making is that it seems that there's more people pointing out that he's overhyped than people overhyping him. Just have a look in his thread or any of the recent posts you've made about him. What was that absolute fucking nonsense you were posting about the relationship between the hyping Dele Alli and xenophobia? Oh wait, yeah, exaggeration.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

FWIW, both Alli and Kane said after the game that the ball was meant for Kane, not Lamela.

Do you have a theory on how Kane actually knew what Alli was thinking when he passed that ball ?

 

[glospur]

Do you have a theory on how Kane actually knew what Alli was thinking when he passed that ball ?

Yeah hold on, I'll just give him a quick call and ask him why he said that he knew the ball was meant for him.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Wow, you're really carrying that, aren't you? I thought you would have recognised exaggeration to make a point, after all it's one of your go to methods. In any case, the point I was making is that it seems that there's more people pointing out that he's overhyped than people overhyping him. Just have a look in his thread or any of the recent posts you've made about him. What was that absolute fucking nonsense you were posting about the relationship between the hyping Dele Alli and xenophobia? Oh wait, yeah, exaggeration.

Have you got any examples of anyone saying purely "everything he does is over hyped" yet ? And have you counted up how many actually think that some of what he does is over hyped and how many are over hyping ?

If you read again you'll maybe understand how the topic developed - but here's a brief synopsis: from the pundit/media over hype of Alli, to the general media pundit over hype of English players to the media/pundit stated preference for English players to be given opportunity to English pundit media denigrating foreign ownership, foreign managers, foreign players (and their "cheating") to xenophobia.

 

[glospur]

Do you have a theory on how Kane actually knew what Alli was thinking when he passed that ball ?

It probably doesn't suit whatever ridiculous point you were trying to make with this question, but Kane talks about in the video attached to this article. But I guess because the omniscient Bus-Conductor doubts it we must dismiss what the man himself says.

http://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/new...i-and-harry-kane-reflect-on-villa-win-140316/

 

[Riandor]

Well I gave MOTM to Kane for the two goals, sometimes I think that's the lazy journalist option, but I like the work-rate to boot.

I have read a lot of positive things about our FB's Walker and Rose. Food for thought, are they genuinely better this season than in others? OR, has a system been put in place that utilises their strengths and dilutes their deficiencies? Yeah yeah, you can lazily say both if you like.

I say though that Walker is still just as prone to mistakes and Rose equally so. Both have looked great and poor at different times this season. The difference is both see fitter and more up for it and more so, the Dier set-up essentially allows them to focus on being the players they are and the team benefits.

If anything, Dier is almost a sacrificial lamb in all this and all credit to him for making it work so well.

Edit: @mattspurs it's possible you've misunderstood (my probably poorly phrased) point

 

[glospur]

Have you got any examples of anyone saying purely "everything he does is over hyped" yet ? And have you counted up how many actually think that some of what he does is over hyped and how many are over hyping ?

If you read again you'll maybe understand how the topic developed - but here's a brief synopsis: from the pundit/media over hype of Alli, to the general media pundit over hype of English players to the media/pundit stated preference for English players to be given opportunity to English pundit media denigrating foreign ownership, foreign managers, foreign players (and their "cheating") to xenophobia.

Are you incapable of basic comprehension? I acknowledged that I was exaggerating (In case you're unsure and you still don't understand, it's defined by dictionary.com as magnifying something beyond the limits of truth; overstate; represent disproportionately), in the OP in response to the statement that 'people here are super overhyping him' - a statement, incidentally, that is also a massive exaggeration, although strangely you're not interrogating that poster; probably because they didn't once take issue with the pretentious, obnoxious drivel that you regularly post. But as a general feel, it seems as though there are more people saying he's overhyped than people that are guilty of actually overhyping him, but yadda yadda, count up all the times it's happened, whatever.

But yeah, tenuous links that are not examples of xenophobia. Xenophobia is the motivation behind right wing groups like Britain First etc, or the reason why people want to ban Muslim immigration or deny people the right to seek asylum, not the local English media preferring local English players. Once again, exaggeration.

 

[eViL]

I watch all the games to and to many times I fall into the trap of seeing a player make a mistake and generalising there play on that incident.
Personally I think Lamela should be more greedy around the box, he should shoot more.

I agree, which is down to that lack of attacking aggression I think. It's a balance. Maybe we'll see it next year, maybe this is as good as it gets.. I really can't tell where we're at with his development.

 

[chrissivad]

Walker was epic, out of interest does anyone keep a tally of who wins these polls? Would be an interesting thread, I am too lazy to start it!

this is the one i started:
http://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/index.php?threads/spurs-community-motm-awards.121849/

 

[Bus-Conductor]

It probably doesn't suit whatever ridiculous point you were trying to make with this question, but Kane talks about in the video attached to this article. But I guess because the omniscient Bus-Conductor doubts it we must dismiss what the man himself says.

http://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/new...i-and-harry-kane-reflect-on-villa-win-140316/

Just freeze the picture when Alli makes the pass to Kane. If it was meat for him it was a poor choice because there are players blocking that pass - it's incredibly fortunate it gets through. I personally think Kane is being kind to his mate, and there's nothing wrong with that, but I'm pretty sure Alli was trying to play in Lamela. I gave Alli credit in my original post for his part, deliberate assist or not.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Are you incapable of basic comprehension? I acknowledged that I was exaggerating (In case you're unsure and you still don't understand, it's defined by dictionary.com as magnifying something beyond the limits of truth; overstate; represent disproportionately), in the OP in response to the statement that 'people here are super overhyping him' - a statement, incidentally, that is also a massive exaggeration, although strangely you're not interrogating that poster; probably because they didn't once take issue with the pretentious, obnoxious drivel that you regularly post. But as a general feel, it seems as though there are more people saying he's overhyped than people that are guilty of actually overhyping him, but yadda yadda, count up all the times it's happened, whatever.

So you were exaggerating. But actually you weren't ?

 

[sloth]

I agree with you @glospur , almost from the moment he got in the side there's been this annoying sub-conversation about Alli, and how he's over-rated, and over-hyped, and that if he wasn't English he wouldn't be getting the praise he gets etc. Many, for weeks, were leaving him out of the side, and every time he went on to produce something which won the match, it was despite him being basically average, or at best a curious phenomena, to be placed in the context of his otherwise bang average performances. That he continues to produce the goods is confounding and he at least makes most people's starting 11 these days.

Look at @Bus-Conductor 's post above. Alli produces a quality ball in a tricky situation which lays a goal on a plate for Harry, and, if Harry hadn't got it, would have laid a goal on a plate for Lamela as well, and what's the analysis? He didn't mean it, and if he did mean it, it was shit (even though it led to a goal), because he shouldn't have been meaning it there, because it shouldn't have made it to Kane (even though it did).

Meanwhile, you have many of the very same people showing enormous tolerance to another of our players in Lamela, over more than one season (which if you think about it is a very good thing, and we should do it more). For me it's double standards. Let's be generous to Lamela and Alli!

Here are some interesting comparative stats for Lamela and Alli:

Lamela: 3 goals, 5 assists, 2 key-passes per game, 0.2 through-balls, 2.2 tackles, 0.9 interceptions, whoscored rating 7.03, 2,103 motm votes Spurs Community, eight motm awards Spurs Community

Alli: 7 goals, 8 assists, 1.5 key passes per game, 0.2 through-balls, 2.2 tackles, 2 interceptions, whoscored rating 7.30, 993 motm votes Spurs Community, three motm awards Spurs Community

https://www.whoscored.com/Teams/30
http://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/index.php?threads/spurs-community-motm-awards.121849/

 

[glospur]

Just freeze the picture when Alli makes the pass to Kane. If it was meat for him it was a poor choice because there are players blocking that pass - it's incredibly fortunate it gets through. I personally think Kane is being kind to his mate, and there's nothing wrong with that, but I'm pretty sure Alli was trying to play in Lamela. I gave Alli credit in my original post for his part, deliberate assist or not.

Keep clutching at those straws. You're wrong, just acknowledge it for once.

So you were exaggerating. But actually you weren't ?

Haha honestly, how do you not understand the distinction between the OP and the sentence you bolded?

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I agree with you @glospur , almost from the moment he got in the side there's been this annoying sub-conversation about Alli, and how he's over-rated, and over-hyped, and that if he wasn't English he wouldn't be getting the praise he gets etc. Many, for weeks, were leaving him out of the side, and every time he went on to produce something which won the match, it was despite him being basically average, or at best a curious phenomena, to be placed in the context of his otherwise bang average performances. That he continues to produce the goods is confounding and he at least makes most people's starting 11 these days.

Look at @Bus-Conductor 's post above. Alli produces a quality ball in a tricky situation which lays a goal on a plate for Harry, and, if Harry hadn't got it, would have laid a goal on a plate for Lamela as well, and what's the analysis? He didn't mean it, and if he did mean it, it was shit (even though it led to a goal), because he shouldn't have been meaning it there, because it shouldn't have made it to Kane (even though it did).

Meanwhile, you have many of the very same people showing enormous tolerance to another of our players in Lamela, over more than one season (which if you think about it is a very good thing, and we should do it more). For me it's double standards. Let's be generous to Lamela and Alli!

Here are some interesting comparative stats for Lamela and Alli:

Lamela: 3 goals, 5 assists, 2 key-passes per game, 0.2 through-balls, 2.2 tackles, 0.9 interceptions, whoscored rating 7.03, 2,103 motm votes Spurs Community, eight motm awards Spurs Community

Alli: 7 goals, 8 assists, 1.5 key passes per game, 0.2 through-balls, 2.2 tackles, 2 interceptions, whoscored rating 7.30, 993 motm votes Spurs Community, three motm awards Spurs Community

https://www.whoscored.com/Teams/30
http://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/index.php?threads/spurs-community-motm-awards.121849/

There are two facets to this and you don't seem to have a very good understanding of either, or you are deliberately misrepresenting what people are saying.

Firstly you are talking about what people are saying on here (SC) about both these players (Alli & Lamela). But you are fabricating a narrative to suit your purpose. You are trying create a narrative in which people on SC have never acknowledged the negatives of Lamela and have only lauded the positives and are doing the exact opposite for Alli. Now, I can't speak for everybody and every single post but the general consensus that I have read on here is actually been nothing like that. From the get go the very best most people have said about Lamela is (to paraphrase) "he's erratic, error prone, can look like a gazelle that's had a PCP enema but he does create quality chances often and he is the most tenacious and best presser of our forwards so given those attributes and the other options available he just about justifies his place". Now this is pretty much exactly what people are saying about Alli (Again I paraphrase) "he has real presence, character and produces moments of quality such as assists and goals but the rest of his play is erratic and can be careless but given his qualities and the other options is justifying his place. And both have been described as young players who have potential scope to improve.

I really don't see what your issue is with the "general" consensus of either of those views. Both are accurate and honest assessments of these players.

The second facet, which was actually the topic I raised in this thread, which you seem to have conveniently ignored is the perception and narrative created and extolled by the media - and I'm really glad you brought up Lamela in your post because he, and the comparison with his media treatment and Alli's is a perfect example of what I (and others) was talking about. In fact, I even gave you a cast iron example - just watch Sky's program and listen - of the disparity in bullshit pundit narrative between these two players. For almost his entire time with us, despite the similarity in contribution - worth to our team etc - Lamela has been routinely scorned and described as a "failure", whereas Alli has been declared marvellous wonder bread almost unanimously by the media & pundits.

In the examples I gave you from Sunday's Sky coverage Lamela plays Kane clean through, 1v1 on the keeper. Not maybe, not perhaps, no ambiguity. The pundit says something like "I think that was the wrong ball, Eriksen was in more space the other side". A minute later Alli fails with an attempt to play Lamela through and the commentator says something like "lovely ball". Then I gave another example of Alli trying to dribble and losing the ball and the pundit again says "Delli Alli, lovely feet". But we've seen a thousand times Lamela do the same and the pundit say things like "It's just not happening for Lamela".

The difference in media narrative is not just a little disproportionate it is almost polar opposite and it can effect the perspective of fans, as it clearly has you.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Keep clutching at those straws. You're wrong, just acknowledge it for once.

You really think he was trying to play that to Kane not Lamela ? If he was it was daft as Hutton is directly between him and Kane. Either way, you can see why most of us and most of their team mates (according to the Kane interview you posted) thought it unlikely can't you ?

 

[glospur]

You really think he was trying to play that to Kane not Lamela ? If he was it was daft as Hutton is directly between him and Kane. Either way, you can see why most of us and most of their team mates (according to the Kane interview you posted) thought it unlikely can't you ?

View attachment 22456

Nah you're right, I forgot, you're the omniscient genius without a shred of humility and we should definitely take your word over the word of the players involved.

 

[Blake Griffin]

wow, close poll.

does my motm table no favours though, someone vote for kane or walker please

edit: thank you to whoever voted, kane it is