Player Watch: Marcus Edwards

[Blake Griffin]

Well he had a year of injuries after that(correct me if I'm wrong) which may have easily set him back physically. Or poch also mentioned his confidence which may have taken a hit

Truth is we don't know but we aren't in the position to know as fans, whereas poch is. I don't get what the criticism is suggesting, that poch has some kind of vendetta against Edwards?

i do think poch holds edwards' delay in signing a new deal against him tbh, had he signed this time last year(back when poch seemingly thought he was ready for first team football) then i doubt he'd be in this position now but we'll never know.

 

[Blake Griffin]

Isn't he just back after one long injury or a series of injuries?

he missed oct-jan with an ankle injury and also had his tonsils out at the same time, he's been back playing regularly since february bar one small injury at the end of april/beginning of may.

 

[danielneeds]

Can't understand this one, I really don't see what GKN offers over Edwards apart from being a little bit stronger and French. He doesnt have the dribbling ability or end product of Edwards.

I'd be very frustrated if I was in his position tbh. Especially if I'm captain of a youth team and someone 2 years younger than me is getting opportunities in the first team.

For me the worst thing is that we actually need a player with Edwards abilities in our team. If we had a squad full of players that could take people on then I could understand it. But we're severely lacking in this area so I can't see how it would hurt putting him on the bench tomorrow and bringing him on for 10 minutes.

What's really the worst that could happen?

The worst thing that could happen is that he loses the arrogance and self-confidence that all great players in the final third need. At the moment he's found youth football and international age group football easy, and he believes he can affect any game.

If he's introduced into senior football before he's ready, gets buffeted about and games pass him by, and were to lose that insouciance and belief it's hard to get it back.

There are tonnes of very skillful players low down in the football pyramid who lost it, and sunk without trace.

 

[pffft]

In the circumstances I just caveated, there would be no justification for this response from any fan with a modicum of sense.

Yeah, but it would still leave the ones who don't, and that seems to be quite a lot.

 

[elDiablo]

Was thinking the same. What better way to build confidence by putting in a good performance for the senior team.

Or conversely plays crap and sets him back further....

Not saying I agree, just throwing it out there

Edit: @Streetspur77 said some thing similar so ignore

 

[coyspurs18]

He's less easily knocked off a ball than Alli.

Again, you're comparing Alli playing against grown men to Edwards playing against youth. It's not really apples to apples. I was looking forward to Edwards getting a chance and was hoping he would shine, but as others have said there is clearly more that needs to be done in Poch's eyes.

 

[DEFchenkOE]

The worst thing that could happen is that he loses the arrogance and self-confidence that all great players in the final third need. At the moment he's found youth football and international age group football easy, and he believes he can affect any game.

If he's introduced into senior football before he's ready, gets buffeted about and games pass him by, and were to lose that insouciance and belief it's hard to get it back.

There are tonnes of very skillful players low down in the football pyramid who lost it, and sunk without trace.

He already played in a first team match though. And if that did happen in the 5 or 10 mins game time he was given he should be more determined to work hard and improve.

 

[ardiles]

He's less easily knocked off a ball than Alli.

But Alli has a better punch

 

[DCSPUR]

Admittedly coming back from injury, but I don't think he was ever at the 'fully trusted' stage - just someone used to give Dembele a rest, and currently he's at a standstill.



TOB will be a monster physique wise by the time he hits his 20's, he's someone I'm not surprised Poch will have a thing for and want to mould him as soon as possible.

Nkoudou isn't particularly 'small'. In any case he's on the periphery and gets about 15 mins of football a month on average.

Strongly disagree with this "but I don't think he was ever at the 'fully trusted' stage"
Both playing time, comments from Poch, Winks etc. and ITK suggested a strong belief in young Harry....and remember the devastating reaction from Poch and the team after his injury...

 

[danielneeds]

He already played in a first team match though. And if that did happen in the 5 or 10 mins game time he was given he should be more determined to work hard and improve.

Yeah, but it seems clear they want him to get sharp and dominating in the U23s after missing so much of last year. My hunch is that it's also linked to the physical programme that's aiming to fill out his body this year.

 

[DCSPUR]

3 league starts in the last 43, now can't even get a start in a CM3 over Sissoko. And the only thing Sissoko does better than Winks as a CM is be big.

mate i like your posts a lot but Winks was very much in Poch's thinking when he got injured v Burnley and, as seen in numerous stories, is not back to fitness yet.
"He is a very good prospect, a player who is dynamic and aggressive. He needs time to be consistent but in time he can be one of the best midfielders for England." Poch right after the Winks injury.

 

[coyspurs18]

Yeah, but it seems clear they want him to get sharp and dominating in the U23s after missing so much of last year. My hunch is that it's also linked to the physical programme that's aiming to fill out his body this year.

Wasn't there some "secret" program Poch used with Kane to bulk him up? At lest I think I remember reading that somewhere....maybe something similar is being done with Edwards. Like many I'd love to see him in action, but not at the risk of injury if he isn't up to it physically.

 

[danielneeds]

Wasn't there some "secret" program Poch used with Kane to bulk him up? At lest I think I remember reading that somewhere....maybe something similar is being done with Edwards. Like many I'd love to see him in action, but not at the risk of injury if he isn't up to it physically.

I know Kane employed his own sprinting coach, and that was before Poch got here.

I doubt Edwards will be bulked up so much, it's the core and lower body, so he can ride tackles and use his butt to shield the ball in the way that little South American players do so well.

 

[mpickard2087]

Strongly disagree with this "but I don't think he was ever at the 'fully trusted' stage"
Both playing time, comments from Poch, Winks etc. and ITK suggested a strong belief in young Harry....and remember the devastating reaction from Poch and the team after his injury...

Poch also at one point had 'strong belief' in the likes of Mason, Carroll, Bentaleb etc (plus non academy kids, for balance). He says a lot of nice things and clearly strikes up great bonds with players to get them playing for him, but he is also a ruthless fucker - he will quickly bin someone if he sees someone he likes more and more in the image of what he wants.

When I said 'Fully trusted' for me that is regular starts in League games, he hasn't reached that stage yet.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

No, he doesn't deserve a chance because the guy who is entrusted with giving out the chances, and who sees enough of him to decide whether he deserves a chance, has decided he doesn't deserve a chance at this moment in time.


He does look like he has more natural ability than Sissoko. But does he have any of the myriad of other things that a top players needs? Pace? Strength? Intelligence?

Yes, it *could* be the launching point for him. But it might just as well not be, and that decision is far better made by the guy who sees him every day than a load of people who read ESPN articles, watch edited Youtube clips and check to see what potential rating he has on Football Manager.

Oakley-Boothe is two years younger, in a position that requires more maturity, and Pochettino has placed trust in him. Clearly, regardless of how much potential Edwards may have, the man who knows him best (and who has a huge amount to gain from his success) doesn't trust him right now. I keep coming back to the comparison because it highlights that there's probably no baffling, weird ulterior motive that Edwards isn't in the squad, the manager just doesn't think he deserves it, or quite possibly doesn't think it's the right thing for Edwards own development; there are plenty of players who are held back until the (nebulous) 'right time', often ones who go right to the top - I've seen coaches at Everton and Barca respectively say that both Rooney and Messi were, ability-wise, good enough to play for the first team from the age of 14, but they kept them back because they didn't want them to get lost as youngsters in the harsh reality of men's football - now clearly Edwards is a great older than that, but he's also a tiny kid; maybe they are holding him back until they are happy that he won't simply get bullied out of games.



Again though, the step up from youth/reserve football is huge, both in terms of quality and intensity.

I do want to clarify again, nothing I've said should be taken as anti-Edwards; I completely understand the desire to see Edwards play, and I was disappointed to read that he wouldn't be in the squad tomorrow. I'm just willing to accept that if he isn't in the squad, there's a good reason for it.

Well I've already explained this, but ok - because, whereas we have all seen enough of the first team to have reasonably informed opinions, that isn't the case with the youth team players. Even those that follow the youngsters closely (I believe this includes you, apologies if I'm wrong) only have an opinion formed on their performances in youth team games, which don't necessarily mean a huge amount when it comes to competitive men's football.

Barring his twenty minute cameo in the League Cup last season, Edwards' experience of first-team football at Tottenham is limited entirely to training, which none of us have access to on a regular basis. So while it's fair enough to question Poch's selection of first-team players - he might be the expert, but you've got your own experience and interpretation of their abilities - with a player like Edwards the discussion is entirely based on ifs and maybes. Essentially no one here has any idea of how he might do in a first-team environment, whereas Pochettino does, because he sees him every day in training. That's the difference - with the youth team players, very few people outside those at the training ground every day have a detailed, relevant knowledge of whether a player like Edwards deserves a chance, it's all hearsay and hype.

EDIT: Sorry only replied to the second part of your post, although it stands as a reasonable answer to the first part too - TOB is now training regularly with the first team, so presumably Poch is seeing enough in him to think he can handle it. Which raises the question - how often is Edwards training with the first team? If he's standing out at youth level then he would be training with the first team regularly and getting the chance to show he deserves to be there...maybe he isn't taking that chance.

We don't see any players train, yet we all spend hours and hours on here debating the merits of who gets picked and how they are played, every game on here. Why does the "we don't see him train" only apply to academy kids ?

We understand that playing U23, U19, U18 and similar international levels isn't the same as playing first team games, but it's not a different sport either, and it doesn't count for nothing as you seem to suggest. We can still form good, reliable opinions if we watch these players play many 90 minutes at these levels.

What Edwards has is unique for this squad and pretty unique in football. It doesn't require him to be huge physical specimen, and he's been playing against bigger kids, and adults (in U23's) for the last few years, what he lacks in strength he makes up for in balance.

As for the old chestnut about ruining kids by playing them too early, it's just a hackneyed cliche that has very little baring on reality, it would only ruin them if they didn't get the right support, they weren't mentally and emotionally strong enough anyway. They will make mistakes, but then, all players do, it's how they will learn and grow as players. As long as the coaches work with them and the fans show understanding, it should not be an issue. Far, far more kids careers have been ruined by not being given a chance than by being given a chance too early.

 

[dagraham]

What Edwards has is unique for this squad and pretty unique in football. It doesn't require him to be huge physical specimen, and he's been playing against bigger kids, and adults (in U23's) for the last few years, what he lacks in strength he makes up for in balance.

I can't profess to having seen Edwards play youth football, but from what I've seen in his brief first team cameo, pre season minutes and video footage is that it's plain to see he is exactly the type of player we are missing.

Of course the argument of whether he's physically developed enough for PL minutes is valid, but as you say, unless given a chance we'll never know and you have to wonder if he's fit and can't get a chance against Barnsley at home then when conceivably will he?

 

[coys200]

Have to say he looks bang average tonight.getting really bullied against a physical Swansea team.Proving poch point tbh.Always this nagging doubt that he's just too small.

 

[Trix]

We don't see any players train, yet we all spend hours and hours on here debating the merits of who gets picked and how they are played, every game on here. Why does the "we don't see him train" only apply to academy kids ?

We understand that playing U23, U19, U18 and similar international levels isn't the same as playing first team games, but it's not a different sport either, and it doesn't count for nothing as you seem to suggest. We can still form good, reliable opinions if we watch these players play many 90 minutes at these levels.

What Edwards has is unique for this squad and pretty unique in football. It doesn't require him to be huge physical specimen, and he's been playing against bigger kids, and adults (in U23's) for the last few years, what he lacks in strength he makes up for in balance.

As for the old chestnut about ruining kids by playing them too early, it's just a hackneyed cliche that has very little baring on reality, it would only ruin them if they didn't get the right support, they weren't mentally and emotionally strong enough anyway. They will make mistakes, but then, all players do, it's how they will learn and grow as players. As long as the coaches work with them and the fans show understanding, it should not be an issue. Far, far more kids careers have been ruined by not being given a chance than by being given a chance too early.

Like who, and how can you back up that statement?

 

[tot]

regardless of where we all stand on this, have to admit this is gonna take a lot of maturity for him to deal with. imagine knocking on the door last year, being on the verge, getting a couple injuries and now not making the squad to face a championship side in the league cup. when you think a guy like sissoko, gkn have/will be taking minutes in spots he could fill. when hes seeing a teammate in TOB leapfrog him, when tonight hes playing in front of a few people when by next month, if given the chance, he could be playing in front of a full wembley, with the likes of kane, lloris and the other first teamers, against other premier league players hes looked up to for years. guy is almost 19, a baby but its not crazy for a boy his age to break through.

thats part and parcel of being a young player. but this is a special case, not just for his talent, but how long this dream has been a very realistic thought on his mind. teams will be trying every trick they can they turn his head and make him sour. its a balancing act for poch here.

 

[Trix]

I can't profess to having seen Edwards play youth football, but from what I've seen in his brief first team cameo, pre season minutes and video footage is that it's plain to see he is exactly the type of player we are missing.

Of course the argument of whether he's physically developed enough for PL minutes is valid, but as you say, unless given a chance we'll never know and you have to wonder if he's fit and can't get a chance against Barnsley at home then when conceivably will he?

Again the coaching staff see him up against Premier league players every single day