Player Watch Player Watch: Oliver Skipp

[Flobadob]

Wait, what is your basis for saying that? It's certainly not born out statistically, though statistics are limited. I think Skipp will be a full England international and quite possibly a future captain of the squad. But, Hojbjerg is the better player right now. What we have is an overbored excitement over Skipp, because he is the player people are less used to seeing playing.

But a few choice statistics show:

PEH creates three times as many chances as Skipp via passing.

PEH makes more tackles per 90 and more interceptions.

PEH makes about 5 times as many dribbles and breaks from Midfield as Skipp. Despite being riskier in terms of playing style they both lose the ball by a poor touch or being tackled exactly the same amount.

Passing wise PEH makes more paces, more progressive passes and creates more chances, with a slightly lower pace percentage than Skipp.

Now stats are limited. But the reality, purely from a statistical basis Skipp has done nothing particularly impressive. While Hojbjerg is statistically one of the best midfielders in the league.

Obviously, football is about much more than that. But the statement that it's clear that Skipp is 'absolutely levels above in his all-round game' seems absurd to me. Skipp is playing better than he was at the start of the season, but he has got a long way to go yet. But, I understand how these cycles go, could well be next year it's now Skipp being negatively compared to whoever the new kid around the block is.

Personally, I think PEH is the much better more complete player atm, and frankly terribly underrated even if his season so far is actually better than last season, where people loved him. But, I perfectly can accept that some think Skipp is the better player, but actually your statement is baffling to me. This idea that it's clear.

Been a midfielder my entire life and I know what’s important for the position. You need to compete, you need to be an all-round athlete, you need to react quickly, you need a burst of pace, you need agility to turn away from people, you need to know when to press and when to sit, you need to have a good first touch all the time, you need to get the ball and move it as quickly as possible (not always necessarily forward, forward is better, but moving it quickly is the mentality you need). I think Skipp does all these things better than Hojbjerg does. I think Hojbjerg is more of a goal threat and plays the odd Hollywood pass here and there but other than that he’s not better than Skipp with any of the fundamentals of a top central midfielder. Skipp will improve in those areas as he gains experience, he got forward a lot more for Norwich last season and you can see his confidence in doing that for us is gradually increasing as he adapts to the higher level

 

[C0YS]

All this does is goes to show how deceiving stats can be. Anyone who has watched us under Conte will be able to tell you how much better Skipp has been than Hojbjerg.

Okay, I've watched every game. Yet, I can't tell you that?

Far from it, and I really rate Skipp. But, you see this pattern all the time with fans. Newness and excitement make people see things in a particular light. But, while stats can be deceiving, so can ones own eyes which are full of biases etc. I'm happy for Skipp he is doing well, his ceiling is much higher than Hojbjerg but I think there's a bit of tunnel vision involved with some fans.

 

[Nick-TopSpursMan]

The biggest indicator of how good Skipp is, is how much more open we are when he doesn’t play.

He breaks up so many attacks just by positioning himself in superb ways to stop counters and get us back on the front foot.

In comparison Hojbjerg is a headless chicken who has no positional discipline although he has other strengths.

But for game intelligence, positioning and potential, Skipp is in another league compared to Hojbjerg and we should be finding him the perfect partner.

 

[C0YS]

Been a midfielder my entire life and I know what’s important for the position. You need to compete, you need to be an all-round athlete, you need to react quickly, you need a burst of pace, you need agility to turn away from people, you need to know when to press and when to sit, you need to have a good first touch all the time, you need to get the ball and move it as quickly as possible (not always necessarily forward, forward is better, but moving it quickly is the mentality you need). I think Skipp does all these things better than Hojbjerg does. I think Hojbjerg is more of a goal threat and plays the odd Hollywood pass here and there but other than that he’s not better than Skipp with any of the fundamentals of a top central midfielder. Skipp will improve in those areas as he gains experience, he got forward a lot more for Norwich last season and you can see his confidence in doing that for us is gradually increasing as he adapts to the higher level

Okay, passing is a great example. Hojbjerg makes the third-most passes out of any midfielder in the league.

Hojberg seems to get past other midfielders more than skipp, turn away from more midfielders than Skipp.

This is the sort of problem. Hojbjerg is better at the fundamentals than Skipp. Hojbjerg is in fact the very example of a player very good at the fundamentals without anything 'fancy' to make him stand out. Skipp, attributes wise I agree. When he stops being caught out in possession as much, when he builds his personality a bit, becomes more expressive, which he is beginning too. Becomes more consistent, than he could become the best player in the country. But this isn't the case here.

You might know what is important for the position. But it's very odd that the things that you give as examples are all things that you see statistical backing for in terms of Hojbjerg. When you look at first touch, for example, maybe a bit different but Hojbjerg is 5th midfielder in the league in terms of not losing the ball because of a bad touch. Oliver Skipp is 11th so not bad.

So, I dunno how it's clear. Yes stats arent everything, but I am trying to use them to try and carve out what I see, and what I see as a very odd argument even from a visual perspective and I feel that there is just generally a big case of new player bias, and then confirmation bias from that. Which is, tbh, what happened to PEH last season. Again, the irony for me, is PEH is having a better season than the last one, it's just peoples interpretations are different.

 

[Flobadob]

The biggest indicator of how good Skipp is, is how much more open we are when he doesn’t play.

He breaks up so many attacks just by positioning himself in superb ways to stop counters and get us back on the front foot.

In comparison Hojbjerg is a headless chicken who has no positional discipline although he has other strengths.

But for game intelligence, positioning and potential, Skipp is in another league compared to Hojbjerg and we should be finding him the perfect partner.

This.

Skipp is perfect to be the more defensive midfielder in a 2 and I just don’t think Hojbjerg is anywhere near good enough at the things he does better than Skipp. We need creativity and drive from the player next to Skipp and Hojbjerg isn’t good enough, just my opinion. I’m thinking Gravenberch, Milinkovic-Savic, Wirtz, Neuhaus, Ruben Neves type players. We need this kind of player to partner Skipp

 

[Timberwolf]

The biggest indicator of how good Skipp is, is how much more open we are when he doesn’t play.

He breaks up so many attacks just by positioning himself in superb ways to stop counters and get us back on the front foot.

In comparison Hojbjerg is a headless chicken who has no positional discipline although he has other strengths.

But for game intelligence, positioning and potential, Skipp is in another league compared to Hojbjerg and we should be finding him the perfect partner.

Yeah I think one of the key reasons Watford were limited to so few attacks yesterday (along with them blindly hoofing it) was down to Skipp tracking back, covering passing lanes and generally being a nuisance.

Even though he ultimately screwed up a bit 1 on 1 against Joao Pedro, in a game without Skipp, Pedro would've been running straight at the defence as I wouldn't trust any of our other CMs to have got back in the first place.

 

[C0YS]

The biggest indicator of how good Skipp is, is how much more open we are when he doesn’t play.

He breaks up so many attacks just by positioning himself in superb ways to stop counters and get us back on the front foot.

In comparison Hojbjerg is a headless chicken who has no positional discipline although he has other strengths.

But for game intelligence, positioning and potential, Skipp is in another league compared to Hojbjerg and we should be finding him the perfect partner.

No, what is this. PEH possession is the more forward. So he is meant to press. Similarly, in a back 3, both midfielders can press. The space in behind is meant to be covered by the CBs. Skipp, is more of the holder, in most games, sometimes it switches.

But the irony of calling an incredibly analytical player, literally taken out of the youth team of Bayern by Pep because of his ability to interpret a game. Or someone who literally analysis every game he plays in his own time. A headless chicken and unintelligent is one of the most rediculous things I've heard.

Both are players with a lot of intelligence who are able to interpret their roles effectively.

 

[C0YS]

This.

Skipp is perfect to be the more defensive midfielder in a 2 and I just don’t think Hojbjerg is anywhere near good enough at the things he does better than Skipp. We need creativity and drive from the player next to Skipp and Hojbjerg isn’t good enough, just my opinion. I’m thinking Gravenberch, Milinkovic-Savic, Wirtz, Neuhaus, Ruben Neves type players. We need this kind of player to partner Skipp

I think we do need diversity, a different kind of midfielder. Because PEH and Skipp are actually very similar players, though please don't get angry if the player chosen is not the one that you are pinning for if we were to pick one ball-winning player with a more sort of creative one.

The reality however, is that none of those players are likely to partner Skipp Hojbjerg because none of them are particularly Conte like players, it's not what Conte really looks for. Personally, I think Conte probably likes the midfield and sees our issue in breaking teams down more a failing of our fullbacks and front three.

Conte like workmanlike midfielders, not fancy pancy ballplayers like Ruben Neves. If we move to a midfield 3, yes then there is space for a Ruben Neves type. But there is a reason Kessie and McKennie are who we are being linked too, both players not stylistically that far away from PEH and Skipp (bit more drive maybe).

 

[DogsOfWar]

The point of playing Skipp and PEH in the middle together is to allow us to control that area, along with three at the back.
And if you control the central area of the pitch you control the game as this then forces teams back into their own third or into trying to play wide, at which point they run into Son/Moura and our high up the pitch wing backs.
It's up to the wing backs, wide attackers, and striker to score.

It was similar to when we had Wanyama and Dembele playing together. They created practically nothing but were the base that allowed the side players to perform.
The difference was we didn't need three at the back because we had Jan and Verts so could use Eriksen as a spare man to create in the middle.

If we had turned up yesterday with a 'creative' three of Winks, PEH, and Ndombele the opposition wouldn't have sat back as we would have been a lot easier to play through and we'd have found ourselves in a much tougher game.

The problem isn't Skipp and PEH playing together, it's the attacking five not creating quite enough.

 

[Flobadob]

The point of playing Skipp and PEH in the middle together is to allow us to control that area, along with three at the back.
And if you control the central area of the pitch you control the game as this then forces teams back into their own third or into trying to play wide, at which point they run into Son/Moura and our high up the pitch wing backs.
It's up to the wing backs, wide attackers, and striker to score.

It was similar to when we had Wanyama and Dembele playing together. They created practically nothing but were the base that allowed the side players to perform.
The difference was we didn't need three at the back because we had Jan and Verts so could use Eriksen as a spare man to create in the middle.

If we had turned up yesterday with a 'creative' three of Winks, PEH, and Ndombele the opposition wouldn't have sat back as we would have been a lot easier to play through and we'd have found ourselves in a much tougher game.

The problem isn't Skipp and PEH playing together, it's the attacking five not creating quite enough.

I feel the problem is we aren’t getting the ball forward to them quick enough though and I wouldn’t lose Skipp’s defensive and ball winning skills for the world. So we need to address that somehow

 

[THE SPURSBOY]

The games with arse and Chelsea will show how he is progressing. Partey kante and Jorginho is the level he needs to attain to

 

[DogsOfWar]

I feel the problem is we aren’t getting the ball forward to them quick enough though and I wouldn’t lose Skipp’s defensive and ball winning skills for the world. So we need to address that somehow

I agree with what you say but, for me, the cost of the upgrade compared to the improvement puts it right down the priority list.
I believe we need a second striker, a creative RWB to replace Doherty, and a technically proficient wide man who can create/score goals to fix the creative issues/create some depth on the bench.

If we can pick up the likes of Kessie on a free then I think we should pull the trigger as I believe he would rotate well with PEH but I think the budget should be prioritised on the creative players first.

 

[bigfrooj]

The games with arse and Chelsea will show how he is progressing. Partey kante and Jorginho is the level he needs to attain to

Partey? Lol

 

[Aphex]

Skipp in good company

 

[PLTuck]

 

[ultimateloner]

I think his quality is average across the PL.
But he is only 21, and playing in a position that requires experience.
He may yet become better than PL-average, and we are also short in CM options.
Good timing for him, as he is getting the mins and exposure to develop.
We need players with an emotional link to us and I hope he has that.

 

[Joshua]

I think his quality is average across the PL.
But he is only 21, and playing in a position that requires experience.
He may yet become better than PL-average, and we are also short in CM options.
Good timing for him, as he is getting the mins and exposure to develop.
We need players with an emotional link to us and I hope he has that.

He’s statistically been one of the better CMs in Europe this season let alone the prem. He doesn’t have a very aesthetically pleasing technique though which is why he may not pass the eye test. But in terms of what he’s delivering he’s been excellent.

 

[EireYid]

He's looking quality playing in a midfield with Hojberg and Winks. I'd love to see him in a midfield with a couple of top quality midfielders. Huge potential.

 

[Joshua]

Proper. What a player.

 

[Delboy75]

Loved seeing him more advanced that was a proper box to box midfield performance. He’s to good to be left shuffling around as a CDM. Said it very early on there’s shades of Bryan Robson about him. If he plays that position he will start scoring and then people will really start talking about him. A real gem that will be integral for the next decade.