Player Watch: Pierre-Emile Højbjerg

[Rosco1984]

It's easy to retain the ball when all you do is pass sideways and backwards.

And hide from getting it when the going gets tough

 

[cliff jones]

I defend him, but would also accept selling him. To be the anchor man in a team with our shocking defence must be fucking exhausting. Right now I am of the opinion that whatever Ange wants (or doesn't) should happen.

looking back he has indeed suffered in this way, and in facing off against three-man midfields most of the time.

I'm not totally against keeping him as one of the two 8s we're being told to expect Ange to deploy but mainly because I want the money spent on Raya and two new CBs more than any other reinforcements this summer.

If the budget doesn't go far enough for Maddison then Hatate could provide something very different, much cheaper.

 

[JacoZA]

There are reasons to criticize PEH, but passing forward does not seem to be one of them.

Plays more progressive passes in the middle and attacking thirds than anyone else in our team (ignore Lucas - he played 2 x 90s):

 

[-Afri-Coy-]

There are reasons to criticize PEH, but passing forward does not seem to be one of them.

View attachment 127837

Plays more progressive passes in the middle and attacking thirds than anyone else in our team (ignore Lucas - he played 2 x 90s):

View attachment 127838

These stats are so misleading, it literally says that PEH is better than KDB at progress passing which we all know is bullshit.

He could also pass the ball 2m ahead of himself and skew these stats. So then what constitutes a true progressive pass? Because it’s definitely more than just the direction the ball is passed in which is what I’m assuming these stats are pointing too.

Some things have to be seen with the eye during matches to have any context, these numbers don’t account for that. PEH is just not a progressive MF overall.

 

[JacoZA]

These stats are so misleading, it literally says that PEH is better than KDB at progress passing which we all know is bullshit.

He could also pass the ball 2m ahead of himself and skew these stats. So then what constitutes a true progressive pass? Because it’s definitely more than just the direction the ball is passed in which is what I’m assuming these stats are pointing too.

Some things have to be seen with the eye during matches to have any context, these numbers don’t account for that. PEH is just not a progressive MF overall.

Progressive passes in these stats are defined as:

Completed passes that move the ball towards the opponent's goal line at least 10 yards from its furthest point in the last six passes, or any completed pass into the penalty area. Excludes passes from the defending 40% of the pitch

In terms of actual yardage, he still passes it forward more than any other midfielder in our team. Which isn't much of a surprise either - he's top 10 in the Premier League for accurate long balls per 90 (across all outfield players).

Also, it does not say he is better at progressive passes than KDB. It says he does it at a higher success rate, which is true - and expected. KDB plays higher risk passes, so naturally less of them will be accurate.

So, sure, context is always important. But to completely dismiss these stats out of hand and say that he is not a progressive MF overall is not accurate.

 

[Whazam]

These stats are so misleading, it literally says that PEH is better than KDB at progress passing which we all know is bullshit.

He could also pass the ball 2m ahead of himself and skew these stats. So then what constitutes a true progressive pass? Because it’s definitely more than just the direction the ball is passed in which is what I’m assuming these stats are pointing too.

Some things have to be seen with the eye during matches to have any context, these numbers don’t account for that. PEH is just not a progressive MF overall.

They are not misleading at all for debunking the ridiculous "he only passes backwards or sideways" argument.

Defining what counts as a progressive midfielder and what the passes up the pitch leads to are different discussions. I don't think anyone has ever argued that PEH is a more productive, chance-creating midfielder than KDB. And that chart isn't arguing it either.

 

[Timberwolf]

How can you say that Bissouma is a better player than Højbjerg when he's hardly played for us ???

I think this Hojbjerg vs Bissouma thing kind of sums up endless debate around whether PEH is good/bad, overrated/underrated and why fans are so divided on him.

There are many ways PEH is better than Bissouma. He scores more goals, gets more assists and, last season, was even better defensively too. These things are all undeniable.

But when Bissouma came back into the team post-injury without the shackles of Conte's system it was instantly clear that he was so much more calm and comfortable in possession that PEH. He had that coolness in his veins and ability to hold the ball under pressure and pick an intelligent and well timed short pass rather than the obvious, telegraphed short pass.

I don't care how many stats people bring up about PEH's passing, you only have to watch the guy play week-in, week-out to see the technical limitations in his game. That's not to say he doesn't have strengths too - he's a jack of all trades and a fantastic professional, neither of which should be underestimated - but he's just not that gifted technically and would look utterly out of place in most elite teams for that reason.

It's why reason Bayern let him go and he ended up at Saints and then was fought over by a 7th placed Spurs and Everton rather than being sought after by the big(ger) boys. If he was better on the ball he wouldn't be here.

He's a great squad option to have and has a lot of strings to his bow, but I think as a team we probably have a bit of a glass ceiling as long as PEH is a nailed starter in such an important part of the pitch. Dier got away with it as a CDM because Dembele did the work of 1.5 midfielders but we don't have a Modric/Dembele level midfielder to partner PEH so his shortcomings will hold us back IMO.

 

[JacoZA]

I think this Hojbjerg vs Bissouma thing kind of sums up endless debate around whether PEH is good/bad, overrated/underrated and why fans are so divided on him.

There are many ways PEH is better than Bissouma. He scores more goals, gets more assists and, last season, was even better defensively too. These things are all undeniable.

But when Bissouma came back into the team post-injury without the shackles of Conte's system it was instantly clear that he was so much more calm and comfortable in possession that PEH. He had that coolness in his veins and ability to hold the ball under pressure and pick an intelligent and well timed short pass rather than the obvious, telegraphed short pass.

I don't care how many stats people bring up about PEH's passing, you only have to watch the guy play week-in, week-out to see the technical limitations in his game. That's not to say he doesn't have strengths too - he's a jack of all trades and a fantastic professional, neither of which should be underestimated - but he's just not that gifted technically and would look utterly out of place in most elite teams for that reason.

It's why reason Bayern let him go and he ended up at Saints and then was fought over by a 7th placed Spurs and Everton rather than being sought after by the big(ger) boys. If he was better on the ball he wouldn't be here.

He's a great squad option to have and has a lot of strings to his bow, but I think as a team we probably have a bit of a glass ceiling as long as PEH is a nailed starter in such an important part of the pitch. Dier got away with it as a CDM because Dembele did the work of 1.5 midfielders but we don't have a Modric/Dembele level midfielder to partner PEH so his shortcomings will hold us back IMO.

Some very good points.

I would add to this that Hojbjerg and Bissouma are different players, and while they could be employed in the same area of the pitch it should be for different reasons (with varying levels of success if not done in this manner).

To me, personally, this is the crux of the debate around PEH. He is clearly very good at a set of things (if people wish to ignore stats, that's up to them - there's a $750 million industry that would suggest they do mean something). It's a set of things that doesn't work in every team/system though. Might mean that he is a limited player, if he is unable to add to his game, and may not be suitable for the systems we want to play. In which case, he should be sold. (Or, as you say, be used as backup or rotation option. Possibly a horse for a very specific course.)

 

[Timberwolf]

Some very good points.

I would add to this that Hojbjerg and Bissouma are different players, and while they could be employed in the same area of the pitch it should be for different reasons (with varying levels of success if not done in this manner).

To me, personally, this is the crux of the debate around PEH. He is clearly very good at a set of things (if people wish to ignore stats, that's up to them - there's a $750 million industry that would suggest they do mean something). It's a set of things that doesn't work in every team/system though. Might mean that he is a limited player, if he is unable to add to his game, and may not be suitable for the systems we want to play. In which case, he should be sold. (Or, as you say, be used as backup or rotation option. Possibly a horse for a very specific course.)

Yeah, as you say, I think a lot of it comes down to what we want/need from a midfielder. A lot of people are saying "yeah well Jose and Conte rate him so he MUST be amazing" ignoring the context of a) they both play pragmatic, counter attacking football where retaining possession high up the pitch is far less important and b) both had pretty limited options in midfield, Jose especially, while under Conte his biggest competition Bissouma clearly didn't adapt well to his style of play in the slightest.

What Ange values in his midfielders is likely very different to what Conte and Jose wanted so that will be the true test of PEH's usefulness to us next season.

As for the stats thing, yeah I completely agree that stats are hugely useful and valid, but I also think that when cherry-picked and taken out of context you can use them to sell almost any narrative you want about a player. And watching PEH week after week for 3 seasons tells me that the passing stats people keep quoting are not telling you the whole story about his possession/passing game.

 

[Albertbarich]

Lots coming out in support of PEH but how many of you would turn down £20m for him with two years left?

Decent player well suited to a mid table counter attacking team

I would, actually I'd laugh at that offer.

Here is a guy loved by Mourinho and Conte, who has played almost every minute for us in the past few seasons as a crucial part of the team in a leadership role and a key player for his country.

When you see how much players like ward-prowse could be going for them it should put some perspective on what his worth.

I'd say a starting point would be double you valuation at 40 million

 

[fecka]

Lots coming out in support of PEH but how many of you would turn down £20m for him with two years left?

Decent player well suited to a mid table counter attacking team

A laughably low offer imo. Should be a minimum of 30m if he's sold, probably even more.
He's a good player who's been asked to do things that aren't to his strengths and has been run into the ground repeatedly.
I have a lot of time for PEH and think he deserves respect.

While I think we can and should upgrade on PEH, if we don't get any good offers for him, I still think he can do a good job as an 8 under Ange.

 

[kd2000]

If we get Maddison, bentantcur and Bissouma fit then he doesn't start, good squad player at best, but if we can get good money for him and keep Skipp and Sarr then can see him being the one sold.

It would be great if we could get them 3 as a starting midfield and also add Devine to Skipp and Sarr to also encourage and promote youth.

 

[spursfan77]

Would we miss him, if we sold him?

No, is my reckoning. On that basis he should go.

(I didnt want us to sign him in the first place FWIW and he hasnt been as bad as I expected, just an easy player to upgrade on and doesnt seem to suit the new manager at all).

 

[CheeseGromit]

The chart does not indicate where the start point of the passing is . It is far more difficult to progressve pass in the final third of the pitch than in he defence third. For example by dropping back and picking the ball up from the goalkepper on the edge of the area it is unlikely that the ball would be passed backwards very ofet. if in the final third it is entirely possible the attack needs to be switched and therefore a side or backward pass is called for.

 

[Scot-Spur]

Personally would prefer he goes “if” it means we can get a more balanced midfield.

I would like something like Skipp and Biss as the 6’s. Then Bentancur, Maddison, Scott and Sarr as the 8’s.

That would give us a well rounded set of midfielders. Plus Maddison can play off either wing if needed.

Selling PEH could go a good way to paying for Scott or a significant chunk of Maddison.

 

[CheeseGromit]

It is about the type of mf players the managers want to suit his system They have to compliment each other. Im not sure Hojbjerg suits Postegolou style but thats only my interpretation Hojbjerg is however a decent prem player but maybe not right for the new style

 

[rawhide]

They are not misleading at all for debunking the ridiculous "he only passes backwards or sideways" argument.

Defining what counts as a progressive midfielder and what the passes up the pitch leads to are different discussions. I don't think anyone has ever argued that PEH is a more productive, chance-creating midfielder than KDB. And that chart isn't arguing it either.

“Facts are meaningless. You can use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true.” Homer J Simpson.

 

[cliff jones]

I would, actually I'd laugh at that offer.

Here is a guy loved by Mourinho and Conte, who has played almost every minute for us in the past few seasons as a crucial part of the team in a leadership role and a key player for his country.

When you see how much players like ward-prowse could be going for them it should put some perspective on what his worth.

I'd say a starting point would be double you valuation at 40 million

that might well be Levy's starting point! Let's see what the market says... and whether he's willing to go or not... strikes me as a proud dude, would probably go if not wanted / anyone decent comes in

 

[S17PUR]

Has there been any talk of interest in him from anyone at all? I've seen it mentioned several times that he'd be relatively easy to move on and that we'd get a good fee for him, but I'm not sure who would actually buy him?

That's not to criticise him as a player and particularly as a leader. I think he's no doubt a positive influence in the dressing room, I just can't see any foreign sides paying a big fee for him and the only PL teams that might would likely be in the bottom half of the table - and would he be prepared to take a step down? I could see him at Brentford but I don't know if he could see himself there.

Edit: just seen the Bayern links. I'm choosing not to believe them and so my point stands.

 

[Whazam]

Has there been any talk of interest in him from anyone at all? I've seen it mentioned several times that he'd be relatively easy to move on and that we'd get a good fee for him, but I'm not sure who would actually buy him?

That's not to criticise him as a player and particularly as a leader. I think he's no doubt a positive influence in the dressing room, I just can't see any foreign sides paying a big fee for him and the only PL teams that might would likely be in the bottom half of the table - and would he be prepared to take a step down? I could see him at Brentford but I don't know if he could see himself there.

Edit: just seen the Bayern links. I'm choosing not to believe them and so my point stands.

Not sure how much truth it is in the Bayern links. I think Romano and that Plettigoal dude said there's nothing concrete from Bayern, but Gold mentioned their interest again yesterday (or the day before that) in an article. Romano did say there were interest from teams from both EPL and Bundesliga though.

I could see a few top teams be interested in him as a squad player, but a Brentford would make a lot more sense imo. Not at bad suggestion at all.