Player Watch Player Watch: Son Heung-min

[Monkey Bastard Hands]

Could literally destroy South Korean football and sport in general to ruin their best athlete in history’s career in his prime, what kind of message would it send to anyone looking to develop South Korean talent and young Koreans themselves, it’s not the same as musicians.

I live in Singapore at the moment and it's the same here. There is currently a young kid at Fulham who is Singaporean and by all accounts is the best footballer Singapore has ever had, and recently the Deputy Prime Minster praised France's World Cup victory by saying that their football system encourages and supports developing young peoples strengths. However, despite the requests of the kid and his family to defer his National Service (which like Korea is for 2 years and mandatory for all males) the government has contradicted this position and have refused the deferment. The attitude in Asia is that it's very much country first - all personal/individual interests are secondary when it comes to the strength and progress of the nation. It's very different culturally compared to the west, but everyone here just accepts that it's a part of life and to serve the country is something that's expected of them.

 

[dtxspurs]

FT
Japan beat UAE 1-0

When is the final?

 

[zicomerc]

When is the final?

12.30 Saturday 1st September, same time as Leicester vs Liverpool.

 

[aussie spur]

It's on! Dokdo Islands map on the Korean change room wall for sure.

On the age thing, there is another thread on here detailing the Korean military service requirements. The first post is a very long explanation of the situation and it is grim for him if it goes as it is supposed to.

Basically he must start at 27 unless he gets a discretionary extension, which would be controversial (but not impossible) . And cos he did not finish high school he can't do proper military stuff and instead will have to do care work (old people etc) 6 days a week which means that he won't even be able play football for one of the military teams.

But that doesn't matter now cos he hopefully will be winning this tourney. Cmon Son!

 

[Streetspur77]

The message would be that everybody is considered equal and have to do their duty in protecting their country.

I live in Singapore at the moment and it's the same here. There is currently a young kid at Fulham who is Singaporean and by all accounts is the best footballer Singapore has ever had, and recently the Deputy Prime Minster praised France's World Cup victory by saying that their football system encourages and supports developing young peoples strengths. However, despite the requests of the kid and his family to defer his National Service (which like Korea is for 2 years and mandatory for all males) the government has contradicted this position and have refused the deferment. The attitude in Asia is that it's very much country first - all personal/individual interests are secondary when it comes to the strength and progress of the nation. It's very different culturally compared to the west, but everyone here just accepts that it's a part of life and to serve the country is something that's expected of them.

This is from an Freelance writer Roy Ghim who’s written about military service for Korean athletes

“Additionally General Ki Chang-Su, the current minister of Korea’s Minister of Manpower Association talked openly about the possibility of granting a special deferment of the draft until his Spurs playing days are over. It goes back to the projection of perceived soft diplomatic power: if the image of Korea is somehow tarnished by Son forcibly yanked from playing Champions League ball to be relegated to working a desk job (not to denigrate desk jobs – they have their importance to running a civil society) Seoul may act decisively to circumvent this from negative image-making headlines about Korea. There have always been Korean players who have to circumnavigate in and around mandatory service and have shifted their careers for better or worse because of it (think Lee Geun-Ho not moving to Europe after winning the Asian Player of the Year in 2013 or Hwang In-Beom getting service out of the way despite his young age of 21). There has not been anyone with as high a profile as Son who had to return from Europe to forcibly end a European football career – nothing remotely like it…yet.”

And this is an extract of his quotes from an sbnation article, I recommend reading it as he talks about the impact on Korean sport in the future, if they ruin the career of their best export

https://www.sbnation.com/platform/a...heung-min-korea-asian-games-tottenham-hotspur

“I’ll wager that the Korean public will be more sympathetic to Son’s hypothetical deferment bid because he’s more decorated (than Park Chu-young),” he said. “It’s an educated guess, but the public won’t go apeshit this time around.”

Ghim has also spoken with Korean expats who used to serve in the military.

“It’s unscientific polling ground,” he says. “But all of them have been enthusiastic about the idea of Son and other footballers having some flexibility with conscription, à la deferment. Rationally, deferment shouldn’t be a controversial issue. A 35-year-old footballer retiring from the Prem is still 1,000 times more fit than the average 28-year-old conscript.”

All I’m saying it’s not as clear as people are making out and really we know very little about how Korea’s military conscription works, what the public will accept, and what they’ll do in Son’s case. Anyway hopefully it will be a mute argument in a few days!

 

[Timberwolf]

I know what you mean but to most Koreans it's not that bad. Same as the Chinese. Students- what do you expect? Same with the elderly who remember occupation.

I went to the Korea v Japan friendly in Seoul about six years ago, a few rows behind us were a few dozen comfort women swinging handbags at the riot police- was quite a set to!

Come on Sonny!

You're right about students and old people being extreme but the propaganda is pretty mad out there. Imagine if every Barclays bank had huge wall-spanning murals of an island we were fighting the French over, if the first thing you heard after getting of the plane at Heathrow was a loudspeaker telling you the French were dickheads. Thankfully we don't need this kind of propaganda as everyone already knows that about the French, but even if you personally didn't really care, it'd still be in the back of your mind.

What I'm basically saying is I'm sure the Korean team don't hate all Japanese people and aren't completely brainwashed, but they'll definitely use the history as motivation and be more pumped up than usual, especially as it's a final.

 

[Lilbaz]

This is from an Freelance writer Roy Ghim who’s written about military service for Korean athletes

“Additionally General Ki Chang-Su, the current minister of Korea’s Minister of Manpower Association talked openly about the possibility of granting a special deferment of the draft until his Spurs playing days are over. It goes back to the projection of perceived soft diplomatic power: if the image of Korea is somehow tarnished by Son forcibly yanked from playing Champions League ball to be relegated to working a desk job (not to denigrate desk jobs – they have their importance to running a civil society) Seoul may act decisively to circumvent this from negative image-making headlines about Korea. There have always been Korean players who have to circumnavigate in and around mandatory service and have shifted their careers for better or worse because of it (think Lee Geun-Ho not moving to Europe after winning the Asian Player of the Year in 2013 or Hwang In-Beom getting service out of the way despite his young age of 21). There has not been anyone with as high a profile as Son who had to return from Europe to forcibly end a European football career – nothing remotely like it…yet.”

And this is an extract of his quotes from an sbnation article, I recommend reading it as he talks about the impact on Korean sport in the future, if they ruin the career of their best export

https://www.sbnation.com/platform/a...heung-min-korea-asian-games-tottenham-hotspur

“I’ll wager that the Korean public will be more sympathetic to Son’s hypothetical deferment bid because he’s more decorated (than Park Chu-young),” he said. “It’s an educated guess, but the public won’t go apeshit this time around.”

Ghim has also spoken with Korean expats who used to serve in the military.

“It’s unscientific polling ground,” he says. “But all of them have been enthusiastic about the idea of Son and other footballers having some flexibility with conscription, à la deferment. Rationally, deferment shouldn’t be a controversial issue. A 35-year-old footballer retiring from the Prem is still 1,000 times more fit than the average 28-year-old conscript.”

All I’m saying it’s not as clear as people are making out and really we know very little about how Korea’s military conscription works, what the public will accept, and what they’ll do in Son’s case. Anyway hopefully it will be a mute argument in a few days!

If there is a possibility of a public backlash they wont do it. No politician would put his neck on the line if he doesn't have to.

 

[JCRD]

WOOOOOOHOOOOOOOO If he wins the cup - can we count it as a trophy for us? I mean I think I'm gonna take it as us winning a cup in all honesty

 

[Lilbaz]

WOOOOOOHOOOOOOOO If he wins the cup - can we count it as a trophy for us? I mean I think I'm gonna take it as us winning a cup in all honesty

Do whatever makes you happy. Think most of us will be well chuffed if they win.

 

[Locotoro]

Do you have a link to that? Because most reports are all over the place when it comes to nailing down the actual deadline.

Wiki says the following:
Military service must be completed between 18 and 35 years old.

And on exemptions:
By winning a gold medal at the Asian Games he's still expected to do four weeks of basic military training and engage in sports field for 42 months. After that, they are automatically placed on the reserve roster, and are obligated to attend a few days of annual military training for six years. In practice, after athletes finish their four weeks of basic military training, they are able to continue their own sports career during the 34 months of duty

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription_in_South_Korea

 

[LexingtonSpurs]

Wiki says the following:
Military service must be completed between 18 and 35 years old.

And on exemptions:
By winning a gold medal at the Asian Games he's still expected to do four weeks of basic military training and engage in sports field for 42 months. After that, they are automatically placed on the reserve roster, and are obligated to attend a few days of annual military training for six years. In practice, after athletes finish their four weeks of basic military training, they are able to continue their own sports career during the 34 months of duty

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription_in_South_Korea

Sorry. Wiki is not terribly reliable when it comes to codified laws from other jurisdictions - particularly when they don't cite to any original sources.

The two cites they do use for that assertion do not actually list the age of 35.

 

[Gareth88]

Sorry. Wiki is not terribly reliable when it comes to codified laws from other jurisdictions - particularly when they don't cite to any original sources.

The two cites they do use for that assertion do not actually list the age of 35.

There are definetly ways to get out or defer military service, my Mrs is Korean and her brother found a loophole where if he is over a certain weight he cant be taken in. This wont help Son but with a win against Japan he can come back to us and all of this worrying would be in vein. I think they really dont care if your famous or not. Ufc fighters, actors and musicians have all been taken in mid career.

 

[Timberwolf]

There are definetly ways to get out or defer military service, my Mrs is Korean and her brother found a loophole where if he is over a certain weight he cant be taken in. This wont help Son but with a win against Japan he can come back to us and all of this worrying would be in vein. I think they really dont care if your famous or not. Ufc fighters, actors and musicians have all been taken in mid career.

So if Korea lose to Japan we can just lock Son in the cheese room and not let him out until he's too fat to be accepted?

 

[Yid121]

Anyone know the time of the final on Saturday?

 

[cliff jones]

You're right about students and old people being extreme but the propaganda is pretty mad out there. Imagine if every Barclays bank had huge wall-spanning murals of an island we were fighting the French over, if the first thing you heard after getting of the plane at Heathrow was a loudspeaker telling you the French were dickheads. Thankfully we don't need this kind of propaganda as everyone already knows that about the French, but even if you personally didn't really care, it'd still be in the back of your mind.

What I'm basically saying is I'm sure the Korean team don't hate all Japanese people and aren't completely brainwashed, but they'll definitely use the history as motivation and be more pumped up than usual, especially as it's a final.

I know you're having a bit of a laugh but the banks and airports I went to in Korea sure sound different to those you did.

I'm sure the prospect of avoiding standing for hours on end at the DMZ in January will motivate the Koreans enough.

ps most Koreans don't like cheese- as many a UK cheddar exporter finds out

 

[Goldman]

Anyone know the time of the final on Saturday?

12:30PM

 

[jurgen]

I know you're having a bit of a laugh but the banks and airports I went to in Korea sure sound different to those you did.

I'm sure the prospect of avoiding standing for hours on end at the DMZ in January will motivate the Koreans enough.

ps most Koreans don't like cheese- as many a UK cheddar exporter finds out

Kimchi rice with an egg on top sitting in a bath of molten cheese was definitely a thing last time I was there.. a very good thing.. maybe that's just drinking food though

 

[TheVoiceofReason]

a bath of molten cheese

Is that what they told you it was?

 

[aliyid]

Anybody know if the game is on TV anywhere or if there are any online options to watch the game?

 

[mstill13]

Looks like it is on Bein Sports 6

Not sure if that is much help though.