Pochettino or Conte

[Spurs 1961]

I don't remember him trying to compete on 4 fronts. Iirc, Poch actually binned off / was disparaging about what he viewed as the lesser competitions.

Trouble is we are not competing in any comps. We have lost disgracefully in all cup competitions. Going down to lower level teams and against Chelsea just saying how superior they are to us and we can't compete. Under Poch we rarely, if ever, lost to a lower league team. In fact for a couple of years we never lost to a team in the bottom half of the PL.

So credit where credit is due. What the future holds is a different matter, who the best manager is we can debate. What I want to see is some real progression, not just talk and spin and excuses.

 

[Moonie]

Everyone makes errors.

When haven't we had a team full of internationals? That's the nature of premier league football.

The fact is he took us to heights we have never been, got us as champions l3ague regulars and came as close to uniting the fanbase as I've ever seen. All whilst having a transfer embargo and having to play at Wembley during his reign.

Since then we haven't been in the champions league let alone in a final and are now on our fourth manager ( if you include Mason)

This thread is all but begging for division but there is no need to try and pull apart the man's legacy, especially when you consider the complete shambles we have been since.

You know and I know they weren’t just international players, they were very very good ones. Not like players for Gibraltar or Dan Marino.
I don’t like this thread and wish I’d never commented. However it’s here! Not pulling apart his legacy, it’s laid out, but he is treated in some quarters like he could do no wrong.
Give over on the transfer embargo, ITKs have put that to bed many times.

Final point, yes we have been a shambles since, that we can agree on

 

[Albertbarich]

You know and I know they weren’t just international players, they were very very good ones. Not like players for Gibraltar or Dan Marino.
I don’t like this thread and wish I’d never commented. However it’s here! Not pulling apart his legacy, it’s laid out, but he is treated in some quarters like he could do no wrong.
Give over on the transfer embargo, ITKs have put that to bed many times.

Final point, yes we have been a shambles since, that we can agree on

Let's just move on .

I love poch but fully back conte.

 

[kaz Hirai]

Let's just move on .

I love poch but fully back conte.

/thread

 

[Moonie]

Let's just move on .

I love poch but fully back conte.

Bullseye

 

[Bobbins]

Got to be the most boring question we could be asking these days.

 

[InOffMeLeftShin]

Trouble is we are not competing in any comps. We have lost disgracefully in all cup competitions. Going down to lower level teams and against Chelsea just saying how superior they are to us and we can't compete. Under Poch we rarely, if ever, lost to a lower league team. In fact for a couple of years we never lost to a team in the bottom half of the PL.

So credit where credit is due. What the future holds is a different matter, who the best manager is we can debate. What I want to see is some real progression, not just talk and spin and excuses.

The first year under Poch was hit and miss too. We lost to West Brom, Stoke twice, palace etc. There was a big transition in playing style and training and it wasn't until later that things clicked. Conte hasn't even had a full season. Maybe we can compare him to Poch in a couple of years but for now let's just get behind him.

 

[UbeAstard]

I wish Poch will be back as our manager one day…. Not today not next year or two.

If we cant have a winner lets have the nicest guy in football....

 

[freeeki]

This went quiet, didn't it?

Can't think why.

 

[Rosco1984]

Poch is my favourite Spurs employee of my 30 years of support. Not just because he gave me the first sustained period of genuinely challenging at the very top of the league that I can remember but because he was such a classy and honest person who you could tell loved the club and the fans.

But even I have to admit the football we have played over the past few weeks probably even tops peak Poch for excitement and quality so its Conte for me.

 

[Annabel]

Love the one you’re with. Although if Conte dumped me I’d run back to Poch in a second.

 

[Trix]

Poch is my favourite Spurs employee of my 30 years of support. Not just because he gave me the first sustained period of genuinely challenging at the very top of the league that I can remember but because he was such a classy and honest person who you could tell loved the club and the fans.

But even I have to admit the football we have played over the past few weeks probably even tops peak Poch for excitement and quality so its Conte for me.

If Conte had Poch's team, we'd have won 2 titles, of course taking into account how the other big sides did in those two seasons. There's no doubt in my mind on that.

 

[Rosco1984]

If Conte had Poch's team, we'd have won 2 titles, of course taking into account how the other big sides did in those two seasons. There's no doubt in my mind on that.

1 for certain as he wouldn't have been with Chelsea to beat us to it!

 

[Ruffinthepuffin]

If Conte had Poch's team, we'd have won 2 titles, of course taking into account how the other big sides did in those two seasons. There's no doubt in my mind on that.

Absolutely spot on imo Trix. ??

 

[JCRD]

I love Poch but think if he is to come back sometime, he will need to go through that period where he manages another club (a functioning one not a PSG) and deliver.

I dont think we ought to dismiss or revise his achievements in the context of where we want to be now. It is shit we didnt win anything with him, that team deserves something HE deserved something... but he was also learning, he wasnt the finished article. Conte is so yeah we would have won something with Conte for sure.

 

[Spursmatty87]

If Conte had Poch's team, we'd have won 2 titles, of course taking into account how the other big sides did in those two seasons. There's no doubt in my mind on that.

On the flip side I doubt could of attracted conte without the work Poch did. But I agree I’ve wanted Conte to be our manager ever since the 16/17 season.

 

[CanadaSpurs]

Conte has me believing this club can challenge for a title next year. By the end of Poch’s tenure that seemed impossible for this group.

 

[Adam456]

Not disagreeing as such but I would point out that it is easy to make those comparisons.....but we had a very young team back then. As I recall it was nothing to do with talent that we dropped points in those big games against Leicester, Chelsea etc. It was losing their heads a little.

You will remember that we very, very rarely got outplayed

The average age now is much higher and, for example, the Kane, Son, Dier, Davies and Lloris we have now are all + 5 years experience, with CL/Euros/WC final under their belt

Edit: (I also do think, though, that we will challenge for the title next year)

 

[ljinko888]

If Conte had Poch's team, we'd have won 2 titles, of course taking into account how the other big sides did in those two seasons. There's no doubt in my mind on that.

If he had those teams in exactly the state they were in under the exact same conditions.

That's a big if though because it was Poch who built that team up to what it became. We're able to say that with hindsight. It's a bit unfair on Poch.

Would Conte could have built them up to the same degree? Maybe. Maybe not. Would he have handled almost two full seasons away from home and no signings for 18 months? Would he have operated on a low net spend?

I'm happy with Conte now obviously. But I have my doubts because he's a manager who I believe makes good teams great. We were not a good team when Poch took over. It was a toxic atmosphere at the club with a bloated average squad. This squad did have talent and two world class forwards.

 

[glacierSpurs]

If he had those teams in exactly the state they were in under the exact same conditions.

That's a big if though because it was Poch who built that team up to what it became. We're able to say that with hindsight. It's a bit unfair on Poch.

Would Conte could have built them up to the same degree? Maybe. Maybe not. Would he have handled almost two full seasons away from home and no signings for 18 months? Would he have operated on a low net spend?

I'm happy with Conte now obviously. But I have my doubts because he's a manager who I believe makes good teams great. We were not a good team when Poch took over. It was a toxic atmosphere at the club with a bloated average squad. This squad did have talent and two world class forwards.

I respectfully disagree, because the team Conte inherited was far worse than the team Poch inherited IMHO.

Both Royal and Doherty were crap, Reguilon no idea what to do. Sess was broken. Hojbjerg could be sold. Winks was hiding. Ndombele and Lo Celso couldn't give a damn. Dele was playing like retiring. Davies so mediocre. Dier was inconsistent. Lucas no competition and kept playing. Bergwijn no confidence and no form.

Compared the above to what Poch had, the young and prime speedster in Walker and Rose. Eriksen and Lamela showing glimpses of excellence. Bentalab and Mason were hungry. Capoue wasn't too bad. Soldado was a reputable striker we all loved. Chadli was quietly good. And the goat Dembele.

To sum it up, Conte has no great and young talents in the team more than what Poch had then. Yet Conte's transformation of the above players in just 5 months are absolutely phenomenal.

And it's not like Conte did a major overhaul in the first window he has had. He had the vision of talents he wants and trust and let the guys, Paratici and perhaps Levy, did their job. We secured Bentancur and Kulu only, while culling the deadwood. And the rest was history. Look what that brought to us. Then imagine a major overhaul he could have had in the summer.

Poch had the budget and time to make the signings, but he lacked the visions to look for alternatives and stuck too stubbornly to only the shortlisted few. The zero signings for that period was absolutely on him more than on Levy.

And toxic atmosphere? What's more toxic than after a Mourinho's reign and a summer of shambolic manager hunt that involved a Gattuso and ended up so underwhelmingly with Nuno?

And lastly, the identity of the play is surfacing now in just 5 months of Conte's ball. If Conte's ball keeps blowing teams away for 5 seasons, the projected success, I'm not being absolute here, will definitely be alot more possible than Poch, like what Trix had mentioned.